The HOBBIT......don't bother

[emjay]

I wonder what might have been if Del Toro hadn't left and been replaced by Jackson...

 

[Jupapabear]

-1

 

[aiptasia]

This movie was a ridiculous POS cash grab. *spoiler alert* That whole barrel riding scene was a lesson in complete cartoonish ridiculousness. Orcs and Warg riders were written to really be something to fear in all of Tolkein's novels and would rip you a new a-hole for fun. Instead, Jackson interprets them as comic fodder and buffoonery (along with the dwarves and, sadly, the elves) throughout this nightmare. These books were a veiled illustration of the horrors of war, the desperate acts of men and beasts against impossible odds and the lifelong bonds of kinship forged by bloody, gory battle.

Watching Legolas slay hundreds of orcs with a bow (how many arrows does that quiver hold anyway) while surf-riding orc corpses from Mirkwood to Lake Town while only suffering a bloody nose is just warped.

 

[Homercidal]

Isn't there a grim aspect to being closed up in a barrel and ridden down a river until you are half-drowned, and barely escape with your life? The original had the Dwarves talked into being put in barrels and sent down the river to laketown (Or close to it) before Bilbo (Invisible due to the ring) rode on top. The first opp he got to collect the barrels along a bend at a slow-moving portion of the river, he got them out, and some of them barely survived.

Yes, it's not as exciting as the video game style shoot 'em up PJ dreamed up, but there is a dread that could be built up when not knowing if they would drown or be captured by the Elves (Which play almost ZERO part in the story from then until the near end.)

I would have preferred 2 GOOD movies without the extraneous bullcrap, and some of the original INTERSTING writing left in. Or even MORE of the lore of Middle Earth not found in The Hobbit, but rather from the other sources.

Must be 10 year olds have so much disposable cash to spend on going to the movies. I never knew.

 

[cheezydemon3]

This movie was a ridiculous POS cash grab. *spoiler alert* That whole barrel riding scene was a lesson in complete cartoonish ridiculousness. Orcs and Warg riders were written to really be something to fear in all of Tolkein's novels and would rip you a new a-hole for fun. Instead, Jackson interprets them as comic fodder and buffoonery (along with the dwarves and, sadly, the elves) throughout this nightmare. These books were a veiled illustration of the horrors of war, the desperate acts of men and beasts against impossible odds and the lifelong bonds of kinship forged by bloody, gory battle.

Watching Legolas slay hundreds of orcs with a bow (how many arrows does that quiver hold anyway) while surf-riding orc corpses from Mirkwood to Lake Town while only suffering a bloody nose is just warped.

He surfs again? speechless.......just speechless.

 

[RhodySeth]

There are some angry folks in this thread.

I can understand their rage though I don't share it. I remember when I was younger and Jurassic Park: the Lost World came out. I was angry after seeing it. Not that the book was Crichton's best but the movie was such a departure that I hated it. But time has a way of extinguishing the raging fires of fanboyism. So too shall it be in this thread.






I thought the barrel riding scene was awesome. [runs out of thread.]

 

[cheezydemon3]

I can understand their rage though I don't share it. I remember when I was younger and Jurassic Park: the Lost World came out. I was angry after seeing it. Not that the book was Crichton's best but the movie was such a departure that I hated it. But time has a way of extinguishing the raging fires of fanboyism. So too shall it be in this thread.






I thought the barrel riding scene was awesome. [runs out of thread.]

Lol, your comment on "The lost world" is spot on. Preposterous. Far worse than what PJ did to the Hobbit.

The scene where the jeep cherokee is sliding back and forth, getting NO traction.....but is somehow keeping a huge RV that outweighs it by double dangling off a cliff.....utter brain dead hollywood crapola.

 

[Homercidal]

Must... Calm... Nerd... Rage....

 

[cheezydemon3]

Must... Calm... Nerd... Rage....

Easy big fella......find a happy place.

Nah, I am nerd raging too. Embrace it.

 

[headbanger]

There's probably not a real big difference between Tolkien nerds and metal nerds fundamentally.. Just sayin'

 

[cheezydemon3]

I wonder what might have been if Del Toro hadn't left and been replaced by Jackson...

The aforementioned "Pacific Rim" has shaken me, but his touch is evident in "Rise of the Guardians" one of the darkest and best kid christmas movies since The Hogfather.

Devil's Backbone is sheer morbidly dark genius.

 

[lowtones84]

Isn't there a grim aspect to being closed up in a barrel and ridden down a river until you are half-drowned, and barely escape with your life? The original had the Dwarves talked into being put in barrels and sent down the river to laketown (Or close to it) before Bilbo (Invisible due to the ring) rode on top. The first opp he got to collect the barrels along a bend at a slow-moving portion of the river, he got them out, and some of them barely survived.

Yes, it's not as exciting as the video game style shoot 'em up PJ dreamed up, but there is a dread that could be built up when not knowing if they would drown or be captured by the Elves (Which play almost ZERO part in the story from then until the near end.)

I would have preferred 2 GOOD movies without the extraneous bullcrap, and some of the original INTERSTING writing left in. Or even MORE of the lore of Middle Earth not found in The Hobbit, but rather from the other sources.

Must be 10 year olds have so much disposable cash to spend on going to the movies. I never knew.

Agreed. I had visions of the barrel scene. Have the camera inside of a barrel with the actor, show how little space is in there, see a bit of water leaking into some of them perhaps, hear their breath as they fight off being cold and wet for what, days?

All of the action in the mountain dragged on for WAY too long and was totally preposterous. They dial up a massive plan on the fly including dwarves completing nearly impossible acrobatic feats to bring a giant, long dead forge to life in a matter of minutes to pour a river of gold? What the hell was all of that?

I do have to say I really enjoyed all of the interaction between Bilbo and Smaug though. I don't think it could have been done much better.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I'm gonna offer my $0.02

As I've said before, like lotr I treat the hobbit movies differently from the books. I think they succeed in somethings and fail at others. Smaug I think rocked. Everything about that scene rocked. The spider scene I loved. I thought many parts of dol galdur were cool. I really wish more time was spent on Beorn. Felt like that was a big miss.

On the negative I thought basically everything with the elves sucked. That's really all I have to say the elves and the continuity are my complaints. Also SPOILER what the hell was with kingsfoil? Not to mention the weird kili elf thing. Couldn't me more pointless.

 

[Homercidal]

I wonder if the Kingsfoil bit was supposed to somehow replace the sleepy river incident, while at the same time attempt to force the Elf/Dwarf love affair subplot. Remember when Arwen needed Kingsfoil in the LOTR movie to save Frodo? Dwarves would not know of it, because it's needed for an Elf spell.

 

[mchrispen]

It was a nefarious and obnoxious connection to Aragorn and his secret knowledge as the human king and Ranger of the North - or as we know them - Masons . Arwen DIDN'T use kingsfoil in any of the lore, rather the elves had better medicines. Kingsfoil was the human name of the herb, and Aragorn had that top secret grail healing knowledge to use it. The LOTR movie got that bit wrong... but it is minor relative to the rest of the lore.

Remember that the writing was done to enhance the sale-ability of the movie, not to enhance or advance the story relative to the books. I did not expect the 2nd movie to divert to such an extent... and the more arcane and IMO less important Great Battle at the end of the book - will now become an action thriller adventure beyond the scope of the LOTR battle scenes. Expect more surfing elves, decapitations and a grand and drawn out attack of Smaug on Laketown, with a slow motion dying dragon rolling to the bottom of the lake and cursed gems falling from its body.

I do wonder how the dwarves left behind will make it back to the mountain... that was just total BS and an extreme diversion for no effect. On the bright side, they didn't hire J.J. Abrams who would have Spock show up and provide counseling to Frodo (and another cheat) just as the Sith joined the invasion to out evil Sauron and steal the Arkenstone to make the ultimate planet destroying weapon. See what I did there? I need to go puke now, cause it just might happen.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I wonder if the Kingsfoil bit was supposed to somehow replace the sleepy river incident, while at the same time attempt to force the Elf/Dwarf love affair subplot. Remember when Arwen needed Kingsfoil in the LOTR movie to save Frodo? Dwarves would not know of it, because it's needed for an Elf spell.

Kingsfoil is a healing herb known by elves and the Dunedain.

But that whole scene was just gut wrenching. I mean Arwen in the movies was also gutwrenching as well. But I digress. As I've said before I treat the movies seperately from the books because to me they're different tales entirely. They follow the same general outline but you can't fit all the material from LOTR into 3 movies. For the Hobbit I like the idea of the expansion but ultimately I think they should have just stuck to 2 movies. Hollywood has this desire to unnecessarily drag out their book based blockbusters, Harry Potter, Twilight and Hunger Games are all stretched out in their last book. Same basic thing happened with the hobbit.

It I was writing the screen play for 2 movies it would go

Start prologue style about the battle where Dain kills Azog
Beginning same as the book.
I'd add some more tension before getting to the Misty Mountains, because face it **** can get boring fast
Misty Mountains
Eagles
Beorn
Walk into Mirkwood end of the first movie with them captured by spiders.

Sprinkle in the Stuff with Dol Galdur in there as well.

Second movie. Open with assault on Dol Galdur, cut mid battle to fight with spiders.
Elves carpture and escape in the barrels. I'm not even 100% opposed to the battle escaping in the barrels, only other way to tell it is bilbo riding the barrels because honestly,showing from the dwarves perspective is boring.
Lake Town
Finish battle at Dol Galdur and Gandalf starting to return to the company
Lonely mountain stuff
Smaug dies
Post Smaug stuff
5 armies
bilbo goes home.

I think that would comfortably first into 2 2-2.5 hour movies with no major boring time.

 

[Chia]

I taped in on an HBO free weekend and finally broke down to watch it. Well, i am watching it now, as i sit here surfing the net and thinking how i really should turn it off. I don't remember the book being anything like this.....

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I just watched Hobbit 1.0 at my sister's last weekend. Ridiculous fights against overwhelming odds, lots of running, 2 minutes of rest...lather, rinse, repeat. I think there might have been a story buried in there under all the orc corpses, but I lost track.

It's a shame. Martin Freeman is a great Bilbo, the casting is excellent, the sets, the atmosphere of the scenes are perfect for these stories. But it just devolves into a CGI horde slaughter-fest. So much story potential completely frittered away.

I'm definitely not paying to see Hobbit 2.0 in a theater. Maybe when it shows up at my sister's house I'll watch it, but I'm not in a rush.

 

[stevereigh]

There were some posts before about South Park, but not mentioning this one. Semi-related note, and is hilarious.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Watched the Rankins/Bass version (with audio fixed) with my niece & nephew recently. There was much more Tolkien present in that one than the PJ version. Given their limitations, they did a better job.

 

[Bensiff]

In waiting for netflix after how bad the first one was, it should have been a one off movie IMO. Really to bad as I thought the LOTR trilogy, especially the extended editions are superbly done...but I can live with a few minor changes and omissions where some can't. The hobbit though, it's like watching Star Wars 1 and 2.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I too was saved from paying to see the dwarf/elf love story crapola. Thank you everyone!!!

DIE PJ!!! die.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

In waiting for netflix after how bad the first one was, it should have been a one off movie IMO. Really to bad as I thought the LOTR trilogy, especially the extended editions are superbly done...but I can live with a few minor changes and omissions where some can't. The hobbit though, it's like watching Star Wars 1 and 2.

I have to disagree, there were massive changes done in LOTR.

I think the general reason why people don't realize the differences has a slew of reasons, but I think the main one is the size of the literature. Lots of details are easier to miss when you're inspecting a 100 acre farm instead of your backyard garden.

I've listed massive changes in posts before. But Jackson made huge changes in characters, stories, character interactions, etc. He did them for the sake of movie making.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I have to disagree, there were massive changes done in LOTR.

I think the general reason why people don't realize the differences has a slew of reasons, but I think the main one is the size of the literature. Lots of details are easier to miss when you're inspecting a 100 acre farm instead of your backyard garden.

I've listed massive changes in posts before. But Jackson made huge changes in characters, stories, character interactions, etc. He did them for the sake of movie making.

Like where the f@#k is Tom Bombadil? THAT pissed me off more than anything...even the horribly written and acted elf dwarf googly eyes and a barrel scene that my 5 year old nephew could have done with more imagination

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Like where the f@#k is Tom Bombadil? THAT pissed me off more than anything...even the horribly written and acted elf dwarf googly eyes and a barrel scene that my 5 year old nephew could have done with more imagination

I'm fine with excluding Tom Bombadil, because it's confusing. All I have to say is ELVES AT HELMS DEEP!!!! WTF!!!

There were lots of changes from Characters themselves (comic relief of Gimli and the pippinification of Merry) to story changes, to timeline changes, to what characters say what, and so on so forth.

It's best to just treat them as seperate Cannon as you should with all books and movies.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I'm fine with excluding Tom Bombadil, because it's confusing. All I have to say is ELVES AT HELMS DEEP!!!! WTF!!!

There were lots of changes from Characters themselves (comic relief of Gimli and the pippinification of Merry) to story changes, to timeline changes, to what characters say what, and so on so forth.

It's best to just treat them as seperate Cannon as you should with all books and movies.

Bless you my son! Fighting the good fight.

As we have said, LOTR is far from perfect, and we can discuss the errors as long as you want to.

At the end of the day, Let's say that my "acceptable" rating for a movie like these deviating from the books, but enough is there for me to still pay to watch it, is 60%.

I would say that:
The Fellowship of the Ring scored a whopping 85%. Changes were acceptable, maybe even necessary.

Two Towers fell to 65% with some glaringly retarded changes.

Return of the King (just off hand, I haven't watched it in 10 years) got to maybe 75%. A few glaring deviations, a little too much hollywood, but basically OK.

The Hobbit*throws up a little*.......... rates around 13%.

This piece of crap could almost have changed the names of the characters and claimed to have invented a new fantasy altogether. (then we would be howling over the glaring 13% that they did rip off from the Hobbit) It should not even be in the same conversation with LOTR.

The latest debacle makes the LOTR look like JRR himself sat on set and arranged every scene.....while THE HOBBITlooks like a retarded mole rat with half a brain accidentally ripped 3 or 4 pages from the HOBBIT, ate them, and then puked them onto PJ's laptop where they somhow made it into 30,000 pages of script.

 

[Darwin18]

13% is rather specific.

 

[GuldTuborg]

13% is rather specific.

And yet strangely accurate in this case. PJ neglected to take Galdalf's advice, failed to hire the "lucky number" scriptwriter, and his quest to make The Hobbit into a movie failed. In all fairness, he was warned.

 

[cheezydemon3]

13% is rather specific.

YES, yes it is.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

13% is rather specific.

It is not rather specific, it is totally specific. It almost demands that you argue that statement!


Go on then!