"The Graduate" has a few basic questions

[Morrey]

Graduating from extract to BIAB.

So I'll move from my kitchen to my man cave. I have done extract for many moons, and even have a nice lagering setup. I now have a 60 qt Bayou Classic pot w/basket and a high output propane burner. I sent the pot's measurements to Michael Wilser and have a BIAB bag and pulley kit on the way.

Next, will I simply follow the grain bill and recipe for AG recipes? No additions or reductions in grain quantity since I'll do the BIAB method?

I will do 5G batches so they will fit in my corny kegs. To calculate how much water to start with, how do I make that determination? I would think it depends on the grain bill and type of grains?

Sparge or no sparge? Again, this would surely impact the amount of H2O I start with.

With these questions in mind, can anyone suggest a good, simple read that outlines BIAB basics? I'll be reading and studying as I go, but it helps to have a simple primer at first w/o bogging down too much technical. I brewed a number of beers before reading Palmer's book, and it made so much more sense then since I kind of knew the language.

Thanks for any support!!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The graduate does not ask questions. He just goes and gets the Komodo.

 

[Mainer]

The graduate does not ask questions. He just goes and gets the Komodo.

The Graduate has no questions. He wants to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Plastics.

 

[Mainer]

But seriously, I was asking the water question of someone else recently. I was told the formula is 1.25-1.75 quarts of water per pound of grain, so use 1.5 per pound as a rough estimate.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

You can sparge if you want to. If so I usually go with 1.75 qt/lb. If you don't sparge, then mash thickness doesn't matter.

My calculator, link in the sig, will determine pretty much everything you need.

 

[Mainer]

I'm finding this to be a useful BIAB primer:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/How-To-Brew-in-a-Bag.pdf

 

[Morrey]

I'm finding this to be a useful BIAB primer:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/How-To-Brew-in-a-Bag.pdf

Perfect! This is what I was hoping to find!! THANKS!!!

 

[Morrey]

I'm finding this to be a useful BIAB primer:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/How-To-Brew-in-a-Bag.pdf

That was a nice, easy to read primer to get me started. Thanks again!

I loaded a trial version of BeerSmith which seems helpful in the future. At this point the materials seem advanced, but I'll look at this quest as a new adventure.

 

[petrolSpice]

AG recipes are good to use. However, they may/will need to be tweaked to match your mash efficiency, volumes, etc. I would assume around 65% efficiency the first time around. I always keep some DME on hand to bump up the gravity if my efficiency is too low. Or boil for longer and have less volume. Many ways to skin the cat.

I wouldn't bother sparging for the first go. To calculate volume, you need to consider first how much you want to keg, and work backwards from there adding in the losses in the fermenter, bottom of the boil kettle, boil off, hop absorption, and grain absorption. As data point, with a ~12lb grain bill, I'll usually mash with nearly 8 gal of water and end up with 5.5 in the fermenter. Do a search for grain absorption numbers.

 

[SoCalHomeBrew]

Beersmith (i use the mobile app) does a good job of calculating how much water to start with, grain/boil loss, etc. It also is quite handy for defining your specific setup/process, resizing recipes to your setup, tracking and alerting with timers to the recipe at brew time, and capturing your specifics to promote repeat-ability. It also has some handy tools at your finger tips for figuring out normalized gravity at different temps. Its a great swiss army knife!

 

[wilserbrewer]

When you are ready Morrey, you have the perfect set up for larger batches.....that big kettle will lose a little heat during the mash w 5 gallon batches, but that's ok really, just mash a little high knowing that you're gonna lose a few degrees. It's ok....the grain is not that smart.

I have also been looking for answers to basic questions for many moons....you'll be in good company here....welcome !

 

[RM-MN]

Graduating from extract to BIAB.

So I'll move from my kitchen to my man cave. I have done extract for many moons, and even have a nice lagering setup. I now have a 60 qt Bayou Classic pot w/basket and a high output propane burner. I sent the pot's measurements to Michael Wilser and have a BIAB bag and pulley kit on the way.

Next, will I simply follow the grain bill and recipe for AG recipes? No additions or reductions in grain quantity since I'll do the BIAB method?

I will do 5G batches so they will fit in my corny kegs. To calculate how much water to start with, how do I make that determination? I would think it depends on the grain bill and type of grains?

Sparge or no sparge? Again, this would surely impact the amount of H2O I start with.

With these questions in mind, can anyone suggest a good, simple read that outlines BIAB basics? I'll be reading and studying as I go, but it helps to have a simple primer at first w/o bogging down too much technical. I brewed a number of beers before reading Palmer's book, and it made so much more sense then since I kind of knew the language.

Thanks for any support!!

You can do some calculations based on how much water the grain retains when you drain the bag and how much water you expect to boil off but you won't really know either when you start as your grain milling will be different than anyone else's and so will your boil off. Take good notes and adjust next time.

When I started I used a recipe that was expecting about 70% efficiency and got 80%. I tell you, it was just awful to have that extra alcohol in my beer....not. I adjusted later to what my efficiency really was to get the recipe to match the expected ABV.

 

[Morrey]

You can do some calculations based on how much water the grain retains when you drain the bag and how much water you expect to boil off but you won't really know either when you start as your grain milling will be different than anyone else's and so will your boil off. Take good notes and adjust next time.

When I started I used a recipe that was expecting about 70% efficiency and got 80%. I tell you, it was just awful to have that extra alcohol in my beer....not. I adjusted later to what my efficiency really was to get the recipe to match the expected ABV.

You are so right that this first time is going to be a calculated guess! My brew pot is 60 qt so that's going to provide a large amount of surface displacement for evaporation. For a lighter pilsner with a 10# grain bill and 2 ounce hop bill, I feel 7.25G of strike water will be ok for a baseline number. After fermentation, resting and lagering, if I come up with over 5G to fit in my keg, I'll bottle the rest. Efficiency is another unknown to me at this point, but I learn as I go.

 

[wilserbrewer]

My guess is that 7.25 is a little light using a large 15 gal kettle and a high output propane burner, I would go 7.5 figuring .8 gal absorption, 1.2 boil off, and .5 yeast cake trub loss puts you at 5 gallons finished beer. Much easier to correct excess wort by extending the boil pre late hop addition, then stretching the beer. Much easier to reduce the wort produced then extend it, so I prefer to err on the positive side of wort production. Jmo

Short batches irritate me lol

Your HO burner can also be used to correct excess volume by cranking it up as needed to hit final desired post boil volume by actively measuring volume during the boil with a calibrated kettle stick or spoon.

I like the priceless calculator as it provides volumes relative to kettle depth of wort that you can monitor during the brew session.

Also realize hot wort shrinks about 4% when cooled, 25 oz or almost 2 pints on 5 gallons.

More important to actually measure than blindly believe what a calculator is predicting.
Jmo

 

[cjs555]

Hi Morrey,

I'm no expert but been BIABing for about a year. After struggling with numbers and volumes and finding that the calculators I tried didn't seem to add up, I discovered this one:
http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/
It is fantastic and I've been using it every time to calculate my volumes, and I've consistently hit my numbers every time with it. The best part about it is it has a feature where you plug in yr kettle diameter, and it gives not only volumes but liquid height in the kettle. I don't even bother measuring volume anymore (my kettle is not graduated...)

So my process to prepare for a brew is as follows:
1. Get an AG recipe together, either from another source or built on an app such as the Brewers Friend: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/
2. Once I have a recipe based on percentages of grains for the malt bill, I can play with the numbers to adjust for trub loss, boil off etc. As I do 3 gallon batches, I've found I typically calculate for 3.25 Gallons to end up with 3 gallons of trub free wort in the fermenter.
3. Using the priceless calculator, you can easily dial in a sparge volume that works for you. Because of my sparge method I usually go for a very thin mash (about 2.25 qt/lb) but haven't had any problems with this - I seem to get very good conversion efficiencies. The biggest things to dial in with BIAB to get your numbers working are typical trub loss volumes from kettle and boil-off rate.
4. To sparge, I have a separate, smaller kettle. I heat the sparge water to 168, lift the grain bag out of the main kettle (allowing it to drain back in through a colander). With about 1.25 gallons of sparge volume, my grain bag can go in to the sparge kettle and just avoid spilling over... Let it sit for 30 mins or however long patience allows, then drain and start the boil. With the two separated kettles, I can start the larger kettle boiling during the sparge, and then get the smaller volume heated up and pour them together. Sounds cumbersome but works well for me on my stovetop. Also, while I still measure boil time, I also measure the volume by taking height readings during the boil to assess how much time is left.
5. Finally, the biggest change I've made recently is to really allow the trub to settle out before racking the cooled wort. This works as I often add lots of late addition hops - if I let it all settle for 1+ hrs before racking, I'll usually leave about 1/4-1/2 gallon of trubby wort in the bottom of the kettle.

c.

 

[Morrey]

Based on the posts by Wilserbrewer and cjs555, I took a look at pricelessbrewing calculations. That gives me a much better handle on the strike water volume, and just to ice the cake, my pot's diameter is entered into the calculations. With a 16" diameter pot, I can expect a large surface displacement to allow for more evaporation than a smaller kettle. After plugging in my grain and hops bill with other variables, I'll start with 7.75 gallons, predicting 2.75 G loss during the entire process.

I first started extract brewing and bottling in the 80's when hopped liquid malt extract was cut with water and a sachet of dry generic brewer's yeast. Bottling was the most common method and kegging was rarely discussed. MY OH MY how times have changed. Home brewers now have tons of equipment and ingredient choices and multiple resources are now available. Ingredients are phenominal high quality as is the support we find from sites like HBT!!

 

[petrolSpice]

Hi Morrey,

I'm no expert but been BIABing for about a year. After struggling with numbers and volumes and finding that the calculators I tried didn't seem to add up, I discovered this one:
http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/

That's a decent calculator! I finally broke down and made my own in Excel which allows me to put in the PPG of each grain, separate sugar additions, IBU's, etc. And I have a corrections section to add water and/or DME if I'm missing my targets while brewing. If I'm over the target then whatever. I'm still working on volume calculations because it changes with gravity and temperature. I have been measuring the height of the liquid but weighing it seems easier and more accurate.

 

[Magnus314]

Volume calculations were a bugbear to me for a long time.

I'm sure I'll catch hell for this on this forum, but lately I have ignored water lost to grain and my calc's have been spot on...

Seems if you let the bag hang for a long time, you effectively lose almost no water to grain absorption. If you squeeze, well... dunno.

Several batches ago I just couldn't let myself have a "zero" for water lost to grain so I forced myself to sparge an almost silly 1.5 gallons for an 18# grain bill... less than 0.1 Gallons/lb... and I was 1.5 gallons over when it was all said and done!

Since then I just ignore that and it's spot on.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Now that the thread has gone to far reaches of calculator minutia, I'll come clean and admit I very rarely, almost never use a calculator.

I simply know and check my pre and post boil volumes.

Example: Strike volume at or slightly below preboil volume and mash grain, remove bag and conduct a slow pour over sparge to reach preboil volume, boil to reach post boil volume by either slightly adjusting boil vigor or boil time.

If boil time is adjusted, flame out remains timed with late hop additions. There is nothing sacred about a precise 60 minute boil as opposed to a 55 - 65 minute boil if that is what would benefit your volume IMHO, with late hops timed to flame out of course.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Also,Fill your empty pot with to your desired amount of finished water and take a reading with a tape measure to the rim.This way you can gauge your water levels pre/post boil with a few readings throughout your brew day.(unless you have a sight glass) I would shoot for 6 gallons.That way youll be at just over 5 gallons in the keg. I like a full keg.All headspace is,is wasted beer space

 

[casualbrewer]

Do a no sparge to begin with... But give the bag good squeeze! I would use a boil off rate of one gallon per hour and a grain absorption rate of .08 gallons per pound of grain. Then all you need to know is how much wort you want to transfer to your fermenter