The ever changing opinions of proper techniques in brewing

[Nightshade]

One big thing I learned over my limited brewing time that contradicted the standard brewing view was that you don't need to chill your wort to a pitchable temp as quickly as possible. From my initial readings and talking to home brew employees they stressed the importance of chilling and how important wort chillers were in the process. From what I've read people in Australia have been doing the no chill method for years so I gave it a shot on my last 4 batches and must say I cannot tell a difference in the outcome!

The only real difference is the time it takes to get the wort to a pitchable temperature. All things being equal there is no difference.

 

[moti_mo]

The other main difference is that you increase your chances of wild yeast and/or bacteria infecting your wort before you pitch your desired yeast. This can be avoided with good sanitation practices and making sure your wort is covered and isolated correctly, but it is still an increased risk.

 

[moti_mo]

Oh, and another difference would arise if you're trying to get the most out of your late addition hops. The longer that wort stays at the high temps, the more aromatics are being driven off from your late addition hops (and your earlier addition hops are adding slightly more bitterness). This can be compensated for, to a certain extent by dry-hopping and by calculating correctly for your earlier additions, but there certainly should be a difference between the two methods.

 

[cbehr]

Oh, and another difference would arise if you're trying to get the most out of your late addition hops. The longer that wort stays at the high temps, the more aromatics are being driven off from your late addition hops (and your earlier addition hops are adding slightly more bitterness). This can be compensated for, to a certain extent by dry-hopping and by calculating correctly for your earlier additions, but there certainly should be a difference between the two methods.

I do adjust my hops but have read a lot of people don't and swear it doesnt' make much if any of a difference. I am also reading about first wort hops and wanna give that a shot.

I sanatize my kegs, purge with c02, then store the wort in there for a few days to a week or so until ready to pitch. I've heard of people letting the wort sit for months before pitching a yeast.

 

[moti_mo]

I do adjust my hops but have read a lot of people don't and swear it doesnt' make much if any of a difference. I am also reading about first wort hops and wanna give that a shot.

Again, you have to know how to judge these types of statements made on a message board. My guess is that when many (but not all) people on here say they "can't tell a difference" between two methods, they're not talking about side-by-side comparisons where they only changed one variable (i.e. brewing one beer, and doing split batch fermentation). They're really talking more generally about brewing the same beer different times and changing their process (i.e. chill vs. no-chill) and nothing jumping out at them when they taste the beer this time around versus last time. If they're tasting the current beer a month after they tasted the previous beer where the process was different and relying on memory to draw the conclusion that there's "no difference", then that's not a reliable comparison.

I sanatize my kegs, purge with c02, then store the wort in there for a few days to a week or so until ready to pitch. I've heard of people letting the wort sit for months before pitching a yeast.

Why in god's name would you let the wort sit for months before pitching yeast? Unless you're doing a spontaneous fermentation, in which case hopefully something major should (hopefully) be happening within a few days. I guess I don't really see the difficulty in using a wort chiller (or some method of chilling wort within say at least a few hours). Its one of the least annoying things I can think of in the whole brewing process. But if it works for you, go for it.

 

[cbehr]

Again, you have to know how to judge these types of statements made on a message board. My guess is that when many (but not all) people on here say they "can't tell a difference" between two methods, they're not talking about side-by-side comparisons where they only changed one variable (i.e. brewing one beer, and doing split batch fermentation). They're really talking more generally about brewing the same beer different times and changing their process (i.e. chill vs. no-chill) and nothing jumping out at them when they taste the beer this time around versus last time. If they're tasting the current beer a month after they tasted the previous beer where the process was different and relying on memory to draw the conclusion that there's "no difference", then that's not a reliable comparison.

I'm sure that is a good bit of it...I"m not saying I buy it's exactly the same and that's why I do alter my hop schedule.

Why in god's name would you let the wort sit for months before pitching yeast? Unless you're doing a spontaneous fermentation, in which case hopefully something major should (hopefully) be happening within a few days. I guess I don't really see the difficulty in using a wort chiller (or some method of chilling wort within say at least a few hours). Its one of the least annoying things I can think of in the whole brewing process. But if it works for you, go for it.

I think the point is people are saying the wort can stay good for months at a time if you use sanitary practices. I would guess/assume most people pitch within a few days when it has cooled. I do it for the sole reason that it saves me time/money brewing beer. I didn't have to buy a wort chiller or spend an hour+ chilling in my sink. I rack right from the brew pot to a keg and seal it up for a day or two. My main point was some think/thought chilling the wort right away is a must do...no chill is just another option for whatever reason you'd want to use it.

 

[Rev2010]

I do it for the sole reason that it saves me time/money brewing beer.

Does it really? I chill my wort down in average NY/NJ fall weather within 11-13 minutes. In the winter I chill it down in about 8 minutes. After that I can aerate, pitch my yeast, and off it goes. Are you somehow fermenting in the keg or are you just using it to hold the wort sealed? Because if it's just a holding vessle then it also has to be washed as well and so does the tubing you'd be using to transfer out of the keg to the fermenter. That doesn't sound like much if any time saved IMO.


Rev.

 

[cbehr]

Does it really? I chill my wort down in average NY/NJ fall weather within 11-13 minutes. In the winter I chill it down in about 8 minutes. After that I can aerate, pitch my yeast, and off it goes. Are you somehow fermenting in the keg or are you just using it to hold the wort sealed? Because if it's just a holding vessle then it also has to be washed as well and so does the tubing you'd be using to transfer out of the keg to the fermenter. That doesn't sound like much if any time saved IMO.

Rev.

I don't have a wort chiller and after spending thousands on my last hobby(salt water reef tank) I'm trying to keep this one more reasonable I'm sure after I purchase all the other equipment I want and build a keezer etc etc I'll get a wort chiller at some point. When I brew 2.5g batches I cool in my kitchen sink with ice but even that takes an hour+ to chill.

I use the keg as a holding vessel and it probably doens't take much longer to wash/sanatize than a wort chiller?

 

[Denny]

If you get a "keezer" (Gawd, I hate that word) before you get a wort chiiler, you need to re-examine your priorities IMO. A chiller will very likely improve the quality of your beer. Isn't that more important?

 

[remandsager]

Lets not forget that if you are transferring into a glass carboy, chilling down is a must! Learned that the hard way w/ our first batch - thought I could 'trickle' the wort into the carboy w/o problems, only to hear a sickening 'crack' after about a gallon had transferred. So - there are valid reasons to chill, depending on processes. We now use a 25' coil in an icewater bath as a pre-chiller, and then a 50 ft coil in the boil pot, and we get our wort down to pitching temps in about 10 minutes, give or take a bit.

 

[remandsager]

...and you can make your own chiller (we did) with less than $50 or so of copper coil from Home Depot...

 

[cbehr]

If you get a "keezer" (Gawd, I hate that word) before you get a wort chiiler, you need to re-examine your priorities IMO. A chiller will very likely improve the quality of your beer. Isn't that more important?

But that's my point, one theory has always been you need to cool your wort ASAP to avoid infections and improve quality etc etc. That thought does not hold true. Check out this great thread on no-chill brewing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/

I did a kolsch batch, granted it was only one experiment, the standard brewing/cooling method and then again the no chill adjusted hop schedule and could tell no difference. I did save several bottles of the first batch to compare directly side by side with the no chill version and althought I'm no beer judge I couldn't tell a difference. Maybe it's becasue it's not a real hoppy beer, maybe my taste buds are off but to me they were exactly the same.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Does it really? I chill my wort down in average NY/NJ fall weather within 11-13 minutes. In the winter I chill it down in about 8 minutes. After that I can aerate, pitch my yeast, and off it goes. Are you somehow fermenting in the keg or are you just using it to hold the wort sealed? Because if it's just a holding vessle then it also has to be washed as well and so does the tubing you'd be using to transfer out of the keg to the fermenter. That doesn't sound like much if any time saved IMO.

Rev.

What sort of mythical underground glacier water are you using! Chilling takes me at least 30 mins and that's with me semi-actively stirring. Easily 45-60 mins is probably more typical. I don't have a pre-chiller though.

No chill is intriguing. I just haven't had the push to try it yet. I do worry about having to alter my hop schedules.

 

[Rev2010]

I did a kolsch batch, granted it was only one experiment, the standard brewing/cooling method and then again the no chill adjusted hop schedule and could tell no difference.

How did you do one the standard cooling method without a wort chiller? If you're talking about an ice bath, to which you said takes you an hours time, that is not to be considered rapid cooling of the wort. Most of what I've read says you will get a lot less chill haze the faster you chill the wort. Could be why you didn't see much of a difference?


Rev.

 

[moti_mo]

What sort of mythical underground glacier water are you using! Chilling takes me at least 30 mins and that's with me semi-actively stirring. Easily 45-60 mins is probably more typical. I don't have a pre-chiller though.

No chill is intriguing. I just haven't had the push to try it yet. I do worry about having to alter my hop schedules.

I used to be at 30 - 45 minutes until I started using a pre-chiller. Now, I can usually get to pitching temps within 15 - 20 minutes for 10 - 11 gallons.

 

[Rev2010]

What sort of mythical underground glacier water are you using!

It's water from deep within a Unicorn cave. Lol, I just use a single 25' copper wort chiller bought from Northern Brewer. I hook it up to the garden hose outside in my back yard, which is also where I boil on a Blichmann burner. I open up the garden hose faucet all the way. Once the wort gets between 120-140 I start stirring the wort with the chiller to circulate it and cool it faster. I do also gently move the chiller in a circle to circulate the wort when it's hot but I do it very gently just to be cautious, hotside aeration myth vs. reality or not.

As noted, when the ground water is cold it chills very very fast. Btw, I've seen many others post with the same chill times as I.


Rev.

 

[cbehr]

How did you do one the standard cooling method without a wort chiller? If you're talking about an ice bath, to which you said takes you an hours time, that is not to be considered rapid cooling of the wort. Most of what I've read says you will get a lot less chill haze the faster you chill the wort. Could be why you didn't see much of a difference?


Rev.

It was a 2.5G batch that I cooled in the sink with an ice bath. It probably does take 45-60 minutes until I pitch the yeast but I get a cold break pretty quickly as it drops from boiling decently fast, just takes a while to finish chilling. I by no means consider myself and expert, that could be part of the reason why I couldn't tell which was which, but even if I got chill haze that wouldn't have an impact on taste?

 

[Calichusetts]

It's water from deep within a Unicorn cave.

You live in North Korea?

http://now.msn.com/north-korean-news-agency-claims-scientists-have-found-unicorn-lair

 

[bmeyer46]

around here, this summer, you were lucky if the groundwater was under 80 degrees...I'm sure Australia is worse. And some places have water restrictions so running 50 gallons down the driveway would be really frowned upon.

 

[Rev2010]

around here, this summer, you were lucky if the groundwater was under 80 degrees...I'm sure Australia is worse. And some places have water restrictions so running 50 gallons down the driveway would be really frowned upon.

The ground water in Jersey where I live during the summer is typically around 75-80 as well, one of the other reasons I stop brewing late spring and summer.


Rev.

 

[bmeyer46]

I usually try to do most of my brewing in the fall and winter..more enjoyable to stand over a boiling pot when the temps are in the 30's than when it's over 100....one of the reasons I could never understand why people usually just BBQ in the summertime? LOL