The Crooked Stave Cellar Reserve Thread

[MKtheGeneral]

I know I'm even more sour about this at the moment (no pun intended,) Cigar City just sent an email to their El Catador members showing how this is supposed to be handled (mind you, I understand that the email was sent out before the beer went up for sale rather than issues cropping up after the sale had taken place):

We are bummed to report that we will be cancelling the sales for Amplitude tomorrow for El Catador Club.

This decision was made when our lab found some strains of lactobacillus on the plates swabbed from our brite tank, the vessel used to carbonate the beer shortly before bottling. Lactobacillus is great for our Berliner Weisse and the upcoming Sour Guava Grove, as it aids in souring the beer. In Amplitude, a big rich barrel-aged doppelbock, it'd be a disaster.

We are going to stress test some bottles and see if there are any more signs of infection. Hopefully it was just a minor scare, but until we know for sure, Amplitude bottle sales are cancelled.

 

[johnnyramirez]

I know I'm even more sour about this at the moment (no pun intended,) Cigar City just sent an email to their El Catador members showing how this is supposed to be handled (mind you, I understand that the email was sent out before the beer went up for sale rather than issues cropping up after the sale had taken place):

We are bummed to report that we will be cancelling the sales for Amplitude tomorrow for El Catador Club.

This decision was made when our lab found some strains of lactobacillus on the plates swabbed from our brite tank, the vessel used to carbonate the beer shortly before bottling. Lactobacillus is great for our Berliner Weisse and the upcoming Sour Guava Grove, as it aids in souring the beer. In Amplitude, a big rich barrel-aged doppelbock, it'd be a disaster.

We are going to stress test some bottles and see if there are any more signs of infection. Hopefully it was just a minor scare, but until we know for sure, Amplitude bottle sales are cancelled.

What's this have to do with Crooked Stave?

 

[MKtheGeneral]

What's this have to do with Crooked Stave?

A very recent example of a brewery (even moreso relevant with a membership club) being proactive rather than letting negative commentary accrue on forums and other external channels.

 

[johnnyramirez]

A very recent example of a brewery (even moreso relevant with a membership club) being proactive rather than letting negative commentary accrue on forums and other external channels.

Ahhhh. I understand. Though I don't think CS was aware of any diacetyl prior to selling the beer

 

[MKtheGeneral]

Ahhhh. I understand. Though I don't think CS was aware of any diacetyl prior to selling the beer

Agreed, I don't believe they did either as noted in my initial message. Just seems like someone would've already reached out to Chad about it... bummer that he'll happily take our (increased) money but not reply to an issue like this.

Just thinking about this even more, it's even worse when it's for a beer which he thought this year's initial batch wasn't up to standards.

 

[johnnyramirez]

Agreed, I don't believe they did either as noted in my initial message. Just seems like someone would've already reached out to Chad about it... bummer that he'll happily take our (increased) money but not reply to an issue like this.
Just thinking about this even more, it's even worse when it's for a beer which he thought this year's initial batch wasn't up to standards.

How would you want him to handle it? Like The Bruery handles their infected bottles? I'm sure he'll make it right if there's issues.
I've heard from multiple people that there's no diacetyl hint in either blend, but I'll judge for myself when I try them. But there could be significant bottle variation as well.

If the beer is that terrible though, I will take it off your hands.

 

[MKtheGeneral]

How would you want him to handle it? Like The Bruery handles their infected bottles? I'm sure he'll make it right if there's issues.
I've heard from multiple people that there's no diacetyl hint in either blend, but I'll judge for myself when I try them. But there could be significant bottle variation as well.

If the beer is that terrible though, I will take it off your hands.

Address speculation, say that they've checked and there is an issue or there isn't an issue. Maybe there's batch variation and if there is what they'd offer to make their Cellar Reserve customers whole.

 

[FishPondManager]

Address speculation, say that they've checked and there is an issue or there isn't an issue. Maybe there's batch variation and if there is what they'd offer to make their Cellar Reserve customers whole.

Have you emailed Chad? This seems to be a more customer level issue than a total throwaway batch.

 

[bathroomlaughter]

this isn't an infection. pedio produces diacetyl, brett eats diacetyl. if anything he releases the beers a bit early sometimes but that's a minor issue.

 

[DrLoveMD]

ISO: your "butter bombed" Persica FT: random shelfies, premium malt beverages, ect. Hit me up, I'll get ya all you want

 

[FishPondManager]

premium malt beverages

Pre-2011 4 Loko?

 

[johnnyramirez]

Pre-2011 4 Loko?

I got a 4 flavor pre-ban variety pack coming in a box. I will reluctantly trade 2 of them+local shelf stuff for that buttery mess you guys call Persica

 

[FishPondManager]

I got a 4 flavor pre-ban variety pack coming in a box. I will reluctantly trade 2 of them+local shelf stuff for that buttery mess you guys call Persica

Tempting. Do you think the caffeine, guarana, taurine, and crack have faded?

 

[johnnyramirez]

Tempting. Do you think the caffeine, guarana, taurine, and crack have faded?

I hope not. I'll find out soon enough though. Gonna probably open 1 up at a tasting soon. Planning on drinking one solo and blending a grape one with Backyard Rye and possibly St Lamvinus

 

[BusinessSloth]

This news is the worst. Just traded for batch 1&2.

.

I had a blend #2 and while I picked up on the bready-ness, did not get a lick of butter. Would have been nice though. It's just good manners.

 

[doobiegoobie]

FWIW, I emailed CS about the perception of diacetyl in the Persica blends and this was Chad's response:

"
Thanks for reaching out. As you know, wild and barrel-aged sour beers are a whole different breed of beers when it comes to production and how they evolve. Almost all of our barrel-aged and barrel fermented beers are a blend of beers which have spent time with our mixed sour culture. While lactobacillus will sometimes produce small amounts of diacetyl, pediococcus which is the major souring bacteria in our mixed culture is also capable of producing a lot of diacetyl, especially after blending and at bottling if any residual fermentation is occurring or has just occurred. In young beers, diacetyl occurs during fermentation and will remain if the beer is removed from the yeast early or is bottled young and doesn't condition long enough with the yeast. In the case of Persica, the beer is well aged during it's time in oak, but the pedio kicks up a little re-fermentation and we can sometimes get a noticeable diacetyl character for a short time.



It's just the nature of how it works, sometimes in our beers if you catch them at the right (or wrong) time they will go through a phase and have some diacetyl present. The Brettanomyces yeast and other yeast in the bottle will take back up the diacetyl and convert it to a less flavor active compound, essentially removing it from the beer. The best thing to do is wait and let the beer evolve, all our barrel-aged wild beers continue to get better as they evolve and I would recommend cellaring them for some time.



Thanks again!

Chad Yakobson
"

 

[user 305778]

So, basically, sorry, sucks to be you?

 

[ptrc1]

Releasing 'unfinished' beer is never good but it sounds like there's some bottle variation going on as far as the diacetyl goes so maybe they didn't catch it. Just gonna leave my bottles on the radiator and wait it out.

 

[MordorMongo]

This is why I have so many beers in the cellar (hoarded, if you will), zero ***** given, will wait for March to open Persica. I will live, and by the time I drink them all the CS/butter/popcorn jokes should be nice and tight, just the way I like them. Seen some of the jokes on forums and FB type things, some of these people have no idea how unfunny they are.....which admittedly in itself is kind of humorous.

"Went to movies, got popcorn, theatre was out of butter, good thing I had a Persica in my pocket!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cha-ching, winner winner, chicken dinner.

People are the worst.

 

[lazerviking]

Releasing 'unfinished' beer is never good but it sounds like there's some bottle variation going on as far as the diacetyl goes so maybe they didn't catch it. Just gonna leave my bottles on the radiator and wait it out.

I generally agree with the sentiment about not releasing unfinished bottles. But I don't fault CS in this case. I think they were in a tough spot because having promised Persica as a CR bottle, they were under the gun to get it out the door. So if there is a diacetyl issue (the bottles I've had so far have tasted great) that Chad is confident is going to clear up, I give them a pass on this one considering the circumstances.

 

[drgarage1]

I generally agree with the sentiment about not releasing unfinished bottles. But I don't fault CS in this case. I think they were in a tough spot because having promised Persica as a CR bottle, they were under the gun to get it out the door. So if there is a diacetyl issue (the bottles I've had so far have tasted great) that Chad is confident is going to clear up, I give them a pass on this one considering the circumstances.

They don't deserve credit for having promised Persica as a CR bottle. They could give out a 2013 CR bottle in 2014. If it is just bottle variation, it's unfortunate, but at least it isn't releasing unfinished beer.

 

[acurtis]

This is why I have so many beers in the cellar (hoarded, if you will), zero ***** given, will wait for March to open Persica. I will live, and by the time I drink them all the CS/butter/popcorn jokes should be nice and tight, just the way I like them. Seen some of the jokes on forums and FB type things, some of these people have no idea how unfunny they are.....which admittedly in itself is kind of humorous.

"Went to movies, got popcorn, theatre was out of butter, good thing I had a Persica in my pocket!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cha-ching, winner winner, chicken dinner.

People are the worst.

I refrained from posting in said fb group. Had a box of smashed Persica arrive yesterday. The joke possibilities were endless

 

[Adam Jackson]

Did anyone hear from Chad yet? I expected some sort of email that would introduce us to the first batch release (even if it wasn't going to be ready until March) just sort of an overview.

 

[DenverBeerDrinker]

Did anyone hear from Chad yet? I expected some sort of email that would introduce us to the first batch release (even if it wasn't going to be ready until March) just sort of an overview.

You would think that but last year we Didn't get anything until Feb or March.

 

[quirkzoo1]

You would think that but last year we Didn't get anything until Feb or March.

Came here to say the same thing. I have learned to not expect any emails until two weeks before the release and then get pleasantly surprised I get beer.

 

[ShawDeuce221]

Came here to say the same thing. I have learned to not expect any emails until two weeks before the release and then get pleasantly surprised I get beer.

I thought I saw somewhere that Nightmare on Brett was being (re?)released soon. I guess this will be only available for pickup as we haven't gotten any notifications of online purchase.

[EDIT] Facebook is where I saw this.

 

[Adam Jackson]

You're right. last year was very similar and it took a while before we got our first on sale email.it was January 25th with a welcome email then nothing until March.

 

[nhudson]

There was an email sent this morning welcoming people to the CR. Looks like we wont be seeing our 1st bottles till march.

Any word if CR members will have access to releases like the upcoming Batch 60 release next week? Being that I am not from Denver I missed on the Holiday Vielle and the last Nightmare on Brett release because it wasn't offered to CR members like in the past.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

There was an email sent this morning welcoming people to the CR. Looks like we wont be seeing our 1st bottles till march.

Any word if CR members will have access to releases like the upcoming Batch 60 release next week? Being that I am not from Denver I missed on the Holiday Vielle and the last Nightmare on Brett release because it wasn't offered to CR members like in the past.

I doubt it. Would be cool if we got a crack at some of this stuff though. Talk to your trustee and see if they can snag a bottle for you.

Re: Reserve glasses
I'm a little surprised that the glasses are once again late. Is it a big deal? No. Just curious if the delay is due to manufacturer or if Chad & Co. didn't put their order in timely enough to get glasses out with the first allotment. If the delay was on Crooked Stave's end, I would think they learned this lesson last year.

 

[nhudson]

I doubt it. Would be cool if we got a crack at some of this stuff though. Talk to your trustee and see if they can snag a bottle for you.

Re: Reserve glasses
I'm a little surprised that the glasses are once again late. Is it a big deal? No. Just curious if the delay is due to manufacturer or if Chad & Co. didn't put their order in timely enough to get glasses out with the first allotment. If the delay was on Crooked Stave's end, I would think they learned this lesson last year.

Agreed. I did email Chad, which then he sent me to a guy named Nick as he does the CR stuff for Crooked Stave. In the past I know Chad did most of the work or at least in 2012 he did. I'll see what Nick says and report back. I know in the past they did, but I also know they are much bigger now than they were.

As for the glasses I guess it's not a big deal, but it's kind of annoying. I didn't get my glasses till almost August last year. Lets hope that they come in early.

As for my trustee, I love to the dude, but he trustees for 10 other people who hit him up for bottles as well. The chance of me getting any are slim to none, leaning towards none. Guess I will ISO, which is stupid because we should be getting 1st crack at them.