Taste Test = HORRIBLE

[squompie]

Hi there,

Day 11 into fermentation. Using a kit and 5 Gallon FV and keeping IPA brew between 20-24C. Took a gravity reading today and am at 1.011 (O.G. 1.056) so, as per instructions, time to add hops. HOWEVER!!
Took a little taste and was suprised at how horrible it tastes at this stage. Tastes really sour and yeasty, and a bit fizzy. Its getting me worried that me brew is contaminated!! What do you reckon Folks??

All the best

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi squompie - and welcome. You say the beer tastes sour? Hmmmm... What was your recipe and could you say something about the process and techniques you used. Would not expect beer to taste "sour" unless it had a bacterial infection...

 

[bknifefight]

Sour is not a good flavor. BUT you've gone this far. Finish up the process and see how it is once bottled and carbonated. It's difficult to judge a beer before it's finished.

 

[Paradigm]

Sour is weird. What kind of hops? What does the beer look like? No big white bubbles, I hope. When you say "time to add hops," I assume you mean "time to add more hops" and you're dry hopping.

If you didn't add any hops during the boil, that would explain the issue lol.

Edit: Oops, missed the temps. Definitely a little warm. I start my fermentation at 18c and ramp up to 20c only for the last few days.

 

[Gavin C]

20-24c is very warm for an IPA fermentation. If that is ambient temperature its even warmer. 26-28c maybe higher.

The high temeperatures during fermentation will facilitate the production of alot of bad flavor compounds. Not good.

However, IPA's warm and uncarbonated will not taste great. So all is not lost by any means.

Infection is possible I suppose. Does it look infected. Compare it with pictures in the post your infection thread.

I'd dry hop for 3-7 days and package it up anyway unless it is clearly infected.

 

[Clonefan94]

20˚C was probably at the high end you should have been. If it got to 24˚C regularly, that's a little hot for a good clean ferment. (was that actual temp of the wort, or ambient temp, actual fermentation is always a couple of degrees warmer than the room it's in) You are probably getting some off flavor from that. IMO, I would let it sit another week at that warmer temp and see if you can get the yeast to clean it up a bit or if time will just mellow it out. Adding a good amount of dry hopping could hide that.

I have gotten used to the taste of warm uncarbed beer as I always taste my final gravity sample. I know enough of the taste to usually determine weather the beer will turn out good or not, but that's far from saying that taste is what the final product is going to taste like. Cooling it down, getting it carbed up makes a lot of difference.

I've found that a good carbed beer, kept cool, will actually mask some of those off flavors and actually accentuate the hops. As others have said though, you are in this deep, so might as well finish it out. I personally would give it another week or so, before I dry hop though and hopefully some of those flavors will clean up.

 

[madscientist451]

24C is way too warm for ale fermentation. What yeast are you running?
You need to keep your fermentation temp 16-17C next time.

 

[Psylocide]

I'm betting the "sour" taste is a mix of acetaldehyde from the age and fusel alcohol from the warm ferment.

At 11 days, I'm not in the least bit surprised that it tasted "yeasty."

It's most likely not contaminated... next time, I would practice some kind of temp control.

But, dry hop it and finish it out, nothing to lose but time now.

 

[squompie]

Well it's a youngs kit. Process is add extract, mix with boiled water than top up with cold tap water. Keep at 20-24 (which is what my stick on thermometer says) than when Gravity is 1.010 or lower, dry hop for 3 days before bottling. It's a simple kit.

Yeah I guess all I can do is wait and see.
Thanks

 

[user 40839]

Ah, right. So it's basically an "instant beer" kit, sort of like the Mr. Beer kits over here in the States. Hop oils etc already in the tin of extract? Assuming you cleaned out and sanitized the fermentation thingy? (Assuming that sanitizer came with the kit?)

Well, first thing is expectation I suppose mate. Those kits will always taste... different than the beer you buy commercially. 24 celsius is also really warm to ferment at. Not your fault obviously, that's what the instructions say, but for a 'clean' fermentation you want it at 20 or even 19 (takes a bit longer to ferment out, but yeast does a better job in the end) then ramping it up a LITTLE bit at the end to finish it off.

Like the others have said, nothing to do at this point but finish the process, bottle it up, chuck it in the fridge, and see how it turns out. But, here's the important bit, even if it tastes like wee, don't be disheartened. Plenty of people on here (myself included) shat the bed on their first brew, and through picking up knowledge on here and at your local brew shop, are now banging out pints that taste better than you get down the local.

 

[Clonefan94]

Well it's a youngs kit. Process is add extract, mix with boiled water than top up with cold tap water. Keep at 20-24 (which is what my stick on thermometer says) than when Gravity is 1.010 or lower, dry hop for 3 days before bottling. It's a simple kit.

Yeah I guess all I can do is wait and see.
Thanks

Unfortunately, if the directions said to keep it at 20 - 24 C, they are wrong. 20 is the high end you would want to hit with an Ale yeast. Any higher than that and you start getting a lot of funky off flavors from phenols and other things. Maybe go find another another ounce or so of hops, of what you have and add that to the dry hop. Might help mask some of those flavors.

Honestly, it won't be the best beer you've ever had, but it should still be drinkable. My first beer was fermented warm as well (followed the instructions like you did) and it definitely wasn't something I'd brag about, but it as my beer and ended up being drinkable at least.

 

[Gavin C]

There does seem to be a common thread with a lot of the pre-hopped no-boil kits in that they do not produce beer that satisfies the brewer.

My mate back home in Dublin made one. He didn't like it. Never brewed again. Shame really.

Hopefully your's will be an exception but if not don't be disheartened. On to the next better batch. A lot of the kits have very poor instructions, often based on non-evidence based methods it would seem. Case in point is the high recommended fermentation temperature.

In London this time of year you probably needed to put it next to a heat source or have the heat on to keep it warm. Cooler temperatures are what you want.

Best of luck going forward. Welcome to the forum.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Your first brew? Maybe it's not 'sour' like infected. Just weird? Homebrew won't taste like store brew at this point, being warm and flat.

I'd ride it out. Worst case is your beer is ruined and you're out some time.

 

[zippy84]

Batch I've just bottled the other day, tasted rank after a 8 days, even though fermentation was all but complete. Another week later and it really started tasting like the beer was coming together so I bottled. The overall balance can mature dramatically over a week or two depending on how the yeast is getting on.

Why don't these kit manufacturers put more acceptable temperatures and time frames on their brewing instructions? I would be a rich person if I had a Euro for every time someone came in here - 'but the instructions said..' It's tiring, and I don't at all blame the consumer, all we can do is what we know!!

Are the kit manufacturers afraid that people will think - 'meh that takes too long, I'm not going to bother with that'? To be honest, I think people would be far happier with RELIABLE fermenting info. and would be prepared to wait the extra few weeks. I assume most people getting into the hobby want to make good beer rather than fast beer!

I think someone should start a petition!

 

[user 40839]

Get what you're saying there. Personally, I find those kits (and no knock to the OP, fair play to him for brewing in the first place of course) appalling. They are to making proper beer as an Aldi frozen dinner is to fine dining. Dump this, boil that, stick in tub, beer in a fortnight. And like zippy said, the emphasis is on getting it into a glass as quickly as possible, quality be damned.

And the problem is that even if you follow the instructions to the letter, you get substandard beer. No way something from these kits is going to stand up to a pint of the equivalent at the pub. No way. So you go to the expense of buying a kit, you go to the trouble of making it, you spend the time to ferment it, and you're left with something that's often disappointing. Who wants to brew beer if the end result is something you have to stomach, rather than enjoy?

I was an INCH away from packing it in myself at one point, and I was at least doing full boils and partial mashes, because I could always taste that homebrew "tang" in my beer, and I would end up avoiding my own brew, and just nipping to the shop for a six pack. Thankfully I bumped into another brewer locally (calling @ricand!) who let me sample some of his, and made me realize that you can't just make good beer at home, you can make feckin' GREAT beer.

 

[jimbobbillyray]

To be fair , many folks (living in a NOW mode) want homebrew "yesterday" (hard to blame them) I've made many good brews from a "kit" , (mostly True Brew) and even had some ready to drink in couple weeks, I brewed a Porter even my wife liked (and she does not care for "dark beers" at all usually)...

IMO (FWIW) , I don't see any issue starting out with good kits (with fresh ingredients) and making beer better than "standard Bud, Miller Coors etc.) can easily be done this way... I believe it's a good starting point and frankly I'd wager many folks are quite content with decent beer from a "kit" within a month from brewing to drinking (or even sooner)

;Not saying many here are in that group , but I would at least assume there are more than a few...

 

[MysteryHaus]

Damn this thread hit home for me. I'm dealing with the same issue as OP, ever since I got my first Brooklyn brew shop kit. Very poor instructions and I followed them to a T. 7 batches in and I still get that exact flavor. I don't have a great setup for ferm temp and now, thanks to all of you, I think I know what the problem is. Thanks!

 

[Gavin C]

Batch I've just bottled ...

I think someone should start a petition!

Get what you're saying there. ... make feckin' GREAT beer.

Including myself. Three Ireland natives in one thread. Must be some kind of record.

 

[squompie]

Cool thanks. Just want to move on to extract, but need to get this but down first!

Happy brewing!!

 

[joshesmusica]

20 is the high end you would want to hit with an Ale yeast.

funny, you're blasting the instructions for being wrong in the way they introduce homebrew to a new brewer, and yet you're providing wrong info to a new homebrewer.

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp565-belgian-saison-i-yeast

for both of those styles of ales, the recommended low temp is 20C...

 

[Psylocide]

funny, you're blasting the instructions for being wrong in the way they introduce homebrew to a new brewer, and yet you're providing wrong info to a new homebrewer.

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp565-belgian-saison-i-yeast

for both of those styles of ales, the recommended low temp is 20C...

Never has the omission of the word "most" been pointed out with such snark.

Congrats.

 

[joshesmusica]

Unfortunately, if the directions said to keep it at 20 - 24 C, they are wrong. 20 is the high end you would want to hit with an Ale yeast. Any higher than that and you start getting a lot of funky off flavors from phenols and other things. Maybe go find another another ounce or so of hops, of what you have and add that to the dry hop. Might help mask some of those flavors.

Honestly, it won't be the best beer you've ever had, but it should still be drinkable. My first beer was fermented warm as well (followed the instructions like you did) and it definitely wasn't something I'd brag about, but it as my beer and ended up being drinkable at least.

Never has the omission of the word "most" been pointed out with such snark.

Congrats.

i don't honestly believe the commenter accidentally left out the word "most" on accident, according to the rest of the comment. the only way to find out if this beer ends up being ok is as suggested by others, to finish up fermentation and dry hopping (i would maybe even add to that to let is sit for like 3 weeks on the yeast), then bottle and carb up and find out what it tastes like. he used absolute statements throughout his comment, i don't see why one wouldn't read an absolute statement into the first sentence as well.

p.s. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snark?s=t mainly the first definition

 

[Psylocide]

i don't honestly believe the commenter accidentally left out the word "most" on accident, according to the rest of the comment. the only way to find out if this beer ends up being ok is as suggested by others, to finish up fermentation and dry hopping (i would maybe even add to that to let is sit for like 3 weeks on the yeast), then bottle and carb up and find out what it tastes like. he used absolute statements throughout his comment, i don't see why one wouldn't read an absolute statement into the first sentence as well.

p.s. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snark?s=t mainly the first definition

I do. I don't think he's as dumb as you're trying to make him out to be, we aren't talking about a saison or hefeweizen here.

Just like you think I'm too stupid to know what the word snark means and decided to ignore the damn definition that is 1" below what you linked.

Fart.

 

[Gavin C]

Fart.

I'm going to start completing all my work and romantic corresondence with this.

Dear Ms. Fothering Gill

On the occasion of your soon to be nuptuals I must reluctantly decline your generous invite, nor shall I be buying any crap at Nordstroms from your registry. Please accept this steaming pile of poo as a token of my esteem. Ever your humble servant

Fart

Gavin C

 

[Gavin C]

funny, you're blasting the instructions for being wrong in the way they introduce homebrew to a new brewer, and yet you're providing wrong info to a new homebrewer.

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp565-belgian-saison-i-yeast

for both of those styles of ales, the recommended low temp is 20C...

Seriously. Come on. Seriously

I for one never even heard of a saison when I started homebrewing. I am a bit of an ignoramus though.

Come on.

You can't be serious here. @Clonefan94 was trying to be helpful and informative. I believe he was both.

 

[Psylocide]

I'm going to start completing all my work and romantic corresondence with this.

Dear Ms. Fothering Gill

On the occasion of your soon to be nuptuals I must reluctantly decline your generous invite, nor shall I be buying any crap at Nordstroms from your registry. Please accept this steaming pile of poo as a token of my esteem. Ever your humble servant

Fart

Gavin C

Yeah... we'd get along just fine.

 

[joshesmusica]

I do. I don't think he's as dumb as you're trying to make him out to be, we aren't talking about a saison or hefeweizen here.

Just like you think I'm too stupid to know what the word snark means and decided to ignore the damn definition that is 1" below what you linked.

Fart.

Seriously. Come on. Seriously

I for one never even heard of a saison when I started homebrewing. I am a bit of an ignoramus though.

Come on.

You can't be serious here. @Clonefan94 was trying to be helpful and informative. I believe he was both.

1) i'm fine with being helpful and informative, as long as it's truthful.

2) it's 11:34 pm here, therefore i've been drinking for some time now, therefore my attempt at pointing out a non-truth in a humorous way came off wrong.

shart.

 

[Gavin C]

This is most un-typical (not sure if that's a word), of your posts so I was somewaht taken aback hence my reply.


No worries joshesmusica. Sometimes one's typing gets ahead of one's brain. Good man. Keep drinkin'. Don't let this abberation deter you.

fart

Gavin C

(might have to ask Psy's permission to that inverted eructation to my signature)

 

[joshesmusica]

but seriously...

for an ipa, i try to have my ambient temps around 15-16c. actually for any style that the yeast is not allowed to steal the show, i try to keep ambients around 16. now that i have temp control, i'll likely try to keep temps around 18c, unless it's some kind of hybrid pilsner or lager.

 

[zippy84]

Personally, I find those kits appalling. They are to making proper beer as an Aldi frozen dinner is to fine dining.

Just to clarify, I wasn't knocking the kit method, just their instruction. I think the frozen dinner comparison is way off, I have and still on occasion make great beers from kits.

And the problem is that even if you follow the instructions to the letter, you get substandard beer. No way something from these kits is going to stand up to a pint of the equivalent at the pub. No way. So you go to the expense of buying a kit, you go to the trouble of making it, you spend the time to ferment it, and you're left with something that's often disappointing. Who wants to brew beer if the end result is something you have to stomach, rather than enjoy?

Yes, that's what I'm saying, follow instructions, prepare to be disappointed. BUT... brew these kits (fresh) like a seasoned brewer; good sanitation, temp control, patience and time, proper fermentables as oppose to sugar, maybe dry hop and I guarantee you'll beat the crap out of some 'pub equivalents'. Some of the time people stick to the kits, but get good at it, as they don't have the space/time/equipment to do more.

I think most people that have moved on to a more complex process don't realise that these kits, more times than not, get brewed by beginners that haven't a clue (not always though). I have defo brewed some great beers from kits. I would never use plain old sugar as a main fermentable, always dme/lme etc. In fact I try to use the premium kits in which you get two cans and don't need to supplement.

Long story short, if you have moved on to extract/partial/biab/all-grain I challenge you to do a premium quality fresh can-kit properly, as an experiment. I will wager that since you are no longer a beginner, because you've gained more knowledge, practice and control over your brewing situation - you will be make a good beer!!