Surly Abrasive clone

[Stauffbier]

Right on, shipping updated saying delivery Thursday, so I am good!

I'm hoping I get my shipping update tonight or at least by the morning.

 

[brplatz]

I'm hoping I get my shipping update tonight or at least by the morning.

They may be slow to notify but if I'm getting mine by Thursday, you can't be far behind

 

[theveganbrewer]

Ever since the holidays past, I have been getting every one of my fedex/ups shipments a day earlier than they say on the website. Anyone else get that too? Wonder if they are overstaffed or something. It's been very consistent.

 

[Stauffbier]

Ever since the holidays past, I have been getting every one of my fedex/ups shipments a day earlier than they say on the website. Anyone else get that too? Wonder if they are overstaffed or something. It's been very consistent.

Yeah, the same has happened to me on trades, both sent and received.

 

[brplatz]

Ever since the holidays past, I have been getting every one of my fedex/ups shipments a day earlier than they say on the website. Anyone else get that too? Wonder if they are overstaffed or something. It's been very consistent.

Quite nice!

 

[Chug]

So, is this the latest consensus?

5 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 39.9 %
5 lbs 12.0 oz Simspons Golden Promise (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 39.9 %
14.4 oz Crystal 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.3 %
1 lbs Simpsons Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
1 lbs BREWERS CRYSTALS
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 41.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 81.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

+ Maybe sub a little Warrior for late/dryhop additions?

 

[theveganbrewer]

So, is this the latest consensus?

5 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 39.9 %
5 lbs 12.0 oz Simspons Golden Promise (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 39.9 %
14.4 oz Crystal 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.3 %
1 lbs Simpsons Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
1 lbs BREWERS CRYSTALS
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 41.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 81.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

+ Maybe sub a little Warrior for late/dryhop additions?

Looks good, but you should knock down that Golden Oat addition to around 4%, I think that's around 9 ounces in 5 gallons.

 

[brplatz]

Vegan what kind of mash setup do you run?

 

[theveganbrewer]

Equipment wise? The standard 10-gallon orange cooler with braid. I batch sparge with 1 step.

 

[brplatz]

Equipment wise? The standard 10-gallon orange cooler with braid. I batch sparge with 1 step.

That's perfect, just wanted to know how close the boil, sparge volumes would be

 

[brplatz]

Got all my goodies today

 

[theveganbrewer]

Nice caps!

 

[brplatz]

Nice caps!

'Merica!

 

[berrywise]

Fruits of my labor.

10 gallon batch
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.9 %
7 lbs Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 24.4 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 34.2 IBUs
1 lbs 3.5 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 4.2 %
3.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 74.7 IBUs
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 - (2l yeast starter)
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

I think I could have had a little more warrior to get the same bite that Abrasive delivers. I also could have done a better job of dry hopping. I used leaf hops and didn't get them submerged as much as I could have and the Abrasive pops you in the nose just a bit more than mine does. Color is off so I'll be tweaking this recipe a bit and definitely brewing it again.

Mine (left), Abrasive (right)​

I didn't do any of my usual tricks to try and get this one to clear more but next time around I'll give it more attention and try to clean it up some.

Overall very satisfied with this brew.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Fruits of my labor.

10 gallon batch
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.9 %
7 lbs Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 24.4 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 34.2 IBUs
1 lbs 3.5 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 4.2 %
3.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 74.7 IBUs
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 - (2l yeast starter)
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

I think I could have had a little more warrior to get the same bite that Abrasive delivers. I also could have done a better job of dry hopping. I used leaf hops and didn't get them submerged as much as I could have and the Abrasive pops you in the nose just a bit more than mine does. Color is off so I'll be tweaking this recipe a bit and definitely brewing it again.

Mine (left), Abrasive (right)​

I didn't do any of my usual tricks to try and get this one to clear more but next time around I'll give it more attention and try to clean it up some.

Overall very satisfied with this brew.

Good look at the color difference. Bobbrews had mentioned it earlier in the thread and was correct. Are you thinking more 20, or a higher crystal?

 

[brplatz]

Here is today's sample, 8 days after pitching. Gravity at 1.006ish

Aroma is awesome even with dry hopping yet, citrus, pineapples, smooth.

Can't wait to try this in a few weeks for real.

 

[Chug]

Plugged this in to Beersmith and this is the closest I can come to the stats on the Surly website:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.29 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Volume 6.29 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.90 gal Est Mash Efficiency 81.1 %


6 lbs 4.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 39.1 %
6 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 39.1 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 12.5 %
8.0 oz Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.1 %
1.00 oz Citra [14.10 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 41.6 IBUs
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.3 % (Brewers Crystals not listed in Beersmith)
1.83 oz Warrior [16.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 78.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [14.10 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
2.50 oz Citra [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Warrior [16.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
Mash at 151

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.0 %
Bitterness: 120.1 IBUs
Est Color: 8.0 SRM

Surly site:
STYLE: Double Oat IPA
MALT: 2-Row, Golden Promise, Oats, Lite Crystal
SUGAR: Brewers Crystals
HOPS: Warrior, Citra
YEAST: English Ale

OG: 19.5° Plato (1.081)
ABV: 9% v/v
COLOR: 8 ºSRM
IBU: 120ish

2 pounds of crystal malt seems like a lot, I've never used more than 1#. Also, brewers crystals aren't listed in Beersmith so I used corn sugar instead. Has anyone here actually used brewers crystals? I've read they can be difficult to use without good circulation.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Seems like a lot of crystal. The real thing doesn't taste that sweet I don't think. I don't remember the crystal being particularly noticeable. Check your grain manufacturer's lovibond numbers on that Golden Promise, I have 2.7 SRM in my bag, estimated 2.4-3.0

 

[Chug]

Good catch, mine is 2.7 as well. Still seems like it'd be tough to get it up to 8 srm without a bunch of crystal.

Edit: I can get it to 7.6 srm with the following grain bill using 1.5# crystal:

6 lbs 8.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.7 SRM) Grain 1 40.6 %
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 40.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.4 %
8.0 oz Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.1 %

 

[theveganbrewer]

Good catch, mine is 2.7 as well. Still seems like it'd be tough to get it up to 8 srm without a bunch of crystal.

Edit: I can get it to 7.6 srm with the following grain bill using 1.5# crystal:

6 lbs 8.0 oz Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.7 SRM) Grain 1 40.6 %
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 40.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.4 %
8.0 oz Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.1 %

I might go up on the oats and a little down on the crystal, but my clone wasn't exact so just a recommendation. It was definitely too light at 7.7SRM which was my first attempt.

My 2nd recipe, which I'm going to brew one of these days, will be

6 each of GP and 2-Row
1lbs 4 oz of C20
9.6oz of Oats (4%)
1 pound dextrose

Then like you, dry hop with some warrior.

 

[brplatz]

Well guys had the first test today!

It's fricken delicious, when my abrasive trade gets here ill do a straight comparison. But otherwise a super drinkable super hoppy glass of awesome

 

[legasus233]

Brplatz, that thing looks perfect! I just drank my last can of Abrasive and am giddy to give the clone another run as my first attempt fermented too hot and I got some crazy off flavors. Can you please detail your brew? Grain bill, hops, volumes, yeast, temps for fermentation, sparging, etc? I would greatly appreciate ! Nice work!

 

[brplatz]

Legasus,

This is the recipe

Type: All Grain Date: 7/27/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: Me
Boil Size: 5.70 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 5.20 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 75.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes: Mashed at 148.5. Poured in water at 165

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 39.9 %
5 lbs 12.0 oz Simspons Golden Promise (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 39.9 %
1 lbs Simpsons Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.9 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 41.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 81.6 IBUs

1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeas

2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
14.4 oz Crystal 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.3 %
Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.082 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.9 %
Bitterness: 122.6 IBUs Calories: 268.5 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 7.9 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 6.4 oz
Sparge Water: 3.20 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 17.42 qt of water at 162.6 F 148.5 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.23gal, 2.98gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

I hit everything pretty spot on except efficiency, but that was due to a poor grain crush. Temps were as stated above.

Fermented between 65-68. 2 weeks in primary, then dry hopped for a week. Then bottled.

I ended up pitching a small starter of the WLP007 and a smack pack of Wyeast British cause the starter wasnt ready yet, just to be safe. Make sure to consider that.

EDIT: The last page or two, veganbrewer made some changes to the recipe above, makes sure to make those changes accordingly.

 

[brplatz]

Also I love WLP007, amazing yeast!

The head on this is nuts, there is even head in the bottle,

 

[Stauffbier]

I took Vegan's latest posted version of this and tweaked it a little. I think I'm remembering correct that he said it could stand to be a bit darker, so I subbed C40 instead of C20. I also used Cara-Pils instead of the Malto Dextrin he recommended. I dry hopped with 2oz of Citra and 1oz of Warrior.

I'm calling this batch "Abrasion" (small glass on the left in the photo)..

The color is almost spot on. Abrasion (my homebrew) is just a hair lighter in color. The Aroma is almost exactly the same, but Abrasive has a touch more pine in the nose. The flavor is almost identical, with Abrasive being slightly more dank. The head and mouth feel are a perfect match. I'm usually hard pressed to ever call something a clone, but this is as close as I've ever experienced. I made a few changes to Vegan's recipe, but he definitely gets all the credit for this!

Thanks for sharing Vegan! As far as I'm concerned I have a keg full of Abrasive(ish)!

 

[theveganbrewer]

I took Vegan's latest posted version of this and tweaked it a little. I think I'm remembering correct that he said it could stand to be a bit darker, so I subbed C40 instead of C20. I also used Cara-Pils instead of the Malto Dextrin he recommended. I dry hopped with 2oz of Citra and 1oz of Warrior.

I'm calling this batch "Abrasion" (small glass on the left in the photo)..

The color is almost spot on. Abrasion is just a hair lighter in color. The Aroma is almost exactly the same, but Abrasive has a touch more pine in the nose. The flavor is almost identical, with Abrasive being slightly more dank. The head and mouth feel are a perfect match. I'm usually hard pressed to ever call something a clone, but this is as close as I've ever experienced. I made a few changes to Vegan's recipe, but he definitely gets all the credit for this!

Thanks for sharing Vegan! As far as I'm concerned I have a keg full of Abrasive(ish)!

Looks awesome. Thanks for experimenting with the C40. So did you go with the same % of C40 as I had for C20? I'd like to dial in that color if you said it was a wee bit dark, I can maybe go down a % point on the C40. There are not many notes on warrior's dry hop aroma, I wonder if that is where the pine is? I will be giving this another go soon.

 

[Stauffbier]

Looks awesome. Thanks for experimenting with the C40. So did you go with the same % of C40 as I had for C20? I'd like to dial in that color if you said it was a wee bit dark, I can maybe go down a % point on the C40. There are not many notes on warrior's dry hop aroma, I wonder if that is where the pine is? I will be giving this another go soon.

Sorry if my post was confusing, but my version was slightly lighter in color than the real thing. I should say.. I didn't sub out all of the C20. I used 4.6% C20 and 1.5% C40, so a slight bump in C40 should do the trick.

I was wondering the same thing about the Warrior = Pine thing. I also know I need to step-up the dry hop. Maybe double the weight, because the flavor was way more dank in the Abrasive. Possibly even more in the whirlpool addition, as well.

 

[legasus233]

Sorry if my post was confusing, but my version was slightly lighter in color than the real thing. I should say.. I didn't sub out all of the C20. I used 4.6% C20 and 1.5% C40, so a slight bump in C40 should do the trick.

I was wondering the same thing about the Warrior = Pine thing. I also know I need to step-up the dry hop. Maybe double the weight, because the flavor was way more dank in the Abrasive. Possibly even more in the whirlpool addition, as well.

Thanks for sharing! Can you detail your brew process? I asked this earlier for brplatzs brew but think yours may be closest so far. I am most interested in mash time/temp, grain/sugar bill, hop additions, ferm temp, volumes etc. I made this back in October and it didn't turn out as I had hoped. The fermentation got really hot on me (77 degrees at high Krause) and it left a hot nose and flavor that seemed to mask everything else. Thanks in advance!

 

[bobbrews]

If you did a 60 minute boil, an extra 30 minutes would also help to slightly darken the color. This way, you wouldn't have to tweak the grist.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Seems like from my calcs plugging in Stauff's numbers, his was around 8.4-8.5 SRM. If it was just a hair dark, could be looking at a 8.2-8.3SRM. Not sure how to calculate 90 min effects on SRM, beersmith doesn't change the figures, but I know it does get darker.