Suggestions with recipe and home brew process.

[BigEasy43]

So below you will see the recipe I use for a NEIPA. One that I found on internet and made little changes. I found the last couple of batches didn't come out like I had hoped for. The last one was due to fermentation temps as the beer had a bad alcohol taste at the end of it, so it totally killed the beer. The one before that, really don't know what happened as it had a more grassy aftertaste. It was ok, but not what I wanted and had before.

10 lbs​	Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)​	Grain​	1​	75.8 %​
1 lbs 6.4 oz​	Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)​	Grain​	2​	10.6 %​
1 lbs 6.4 oz​	White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)​	Grain​	3​	10.6 %​
6.4 oz​	Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)​	Grain​	4​	3.0 %​

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​
1.00 oz​	Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min​	Hop​	5​	11.8 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min​	Hop​	6​	15.3 IBUs​

Steeped Hops

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​
1.50 oz​	Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min​	Hop​	7​	14.7 IBUs​
1.50 oz​	Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min​	Hop​	8​	19.2 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min​	Hop​	9​	13.1 IBUs​

2.00 oz​	Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days​	Hop​	11​	0.0 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days​	Hop​	12​	0.0 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days​	Hop​	13​	0.0 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days​	Hop​	14​	0.0 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days​	Hop​	15​	0.0 IBUs​
1.00 oz​	Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days​	Hop​	16​	0.0 IBUs​

Yeast London Ale III

I mill my own grain and it seems to be a good crush to me. I use a rectangular cooler with a stainless steal plumbing hose and this all seems to work fine. I also use a converted keg as a brew kettle. With a large amount of hops in this recipe I use a grain bag for the whirlpool section of this recipe as before the hops would clog my dip tube. I have a fermentation chamber and set it at 67F and leave it for 2 weeks before moving it to keg. So my questions are below if you can help.

My Mash Efficiency is roughly 45% each time and I bought a grain mill hoping this would solve some issues. I mean my BH efficiency is 58% which isn't great. Should I worry about this? Tips on improving efficiency??

With dry hoping in the recipe, does it mean to dry hop 3 and 7 days at the start or 3 and 7 days to go in the end? What is the grassy taste from?

Color hasn't anywhere been near bright yellow, more of a dull color. What is this from? How to improve color?

Any tips or suggestions are welcomed on anything with process, equipment and recipe. If you need more info, let me know.

Thanks

 

[myndflyte]

I can try and take a swing at some of these. For the efficiency issue, I used to use a converted 10 gallon cooler with the stainless steel plumbing hose and got similar efficiencies to you. I switch to BIAB and a double crush and now don't get anything under 70%. Might be worth looking into in the future, but that is just my preference. Sorry I can't offer anything more on that front.

As for dry hopping, for a NEIPA, you want the hop oil/yeast fermentation reaction to happen so you should be dry hopping on day 3 before fermentation is complete. My recipe that I like hops on day 2 or 3 and on day 7 with kegging on day 14.

As for color, my guess would be that honey malt with an SRM of 25 is the culprit. Mine comes out a bright yellow and I have nothing higher than an SRM of 4. For reference, I use 6lb Maris Otter, 6lb 2-row and 1lb flaked oats.

 

[VikeMan]

My Mash Efficiency is roughly 45% each time and I bought a grain mill hoping this would solve some issues. I mean my BH efficiency is 58% which isn't great.

How are you computing your efficiencies? Mash Efficiency is always higher than Brewhouse Efficiency.

 

[MMP126]

If it is really 45%, that is really low. I brew with a SS Brewtech mash tun, and get 70-72% each time I brew. The lowest I have ever been was like 57%, and that was grain that was crushed by a vendor, and we KNEW it was going to be bad, but proceeded anyways.Yeah, check that you are doing that math correctly first. Then, if the math is right, I would first check your crush. Do some research on how your grains should look after crushing, and what your mill gap should be. See if there are issues there. From there, we would need to trouble shoot more.

For color, I am not sure what dull means in terms of color. I use a pretty similar grain bill and get a yellow/slight gold color. I typically use 2-3% honey malt, and get this:

Grassy notes can come from certain types of hops, leaving your beer on the hops too long, or having hop matter mixed with the beer you are tasting (along with harshness, or "hop bite"). If you are doing a NEIPA, there is a ton of info on here. Look at the Ale recipes forum. The consensus has been to only DH once, after fermentation is done, and after a soft crash to about 55F. I have done this, and it my current batch does not have a grassy/vegetal/harsh feel to it. Its a tricky style, so read up on it before you brew.

 

[BigEasy43]

My Efficiency is being calculated by BeerSmith after inputing my numbers.

 

[VikeMan]

My Efficiency is being calculated by BeerSmith after inputing my numbers.

Just to be clear... Beersmith is telling you your Brewhouse efficiency is 58% and your mash efficiency is 45%, or is the Brewhouse efficiency just a number you input? Because again, actual mash efficiency has to be higher than brewhouse efficency.

If you want, post one of your grain bills, post boil volumes, and post boil OGs, and I (or someone else if they see it first) can sanity check it.
(Or pre-boil numbers. Either way.)

 

[BigEasy43]

VikeMan, you are correct as one of my numbers was missing which made my mash efficiency increase. My mistake on this. So my brewhouse efficiency is normally anywhere from 50% to 58%, is this a concern? Assuming it's equipment related.

 

[VikeMan]

VikeMan, you are correct as one of my numbers was missing which made my mash efficiency increase. My mistake on this. So my brewhouse efficiency is normally anywhere from 50% to 58%, is this a concern? Assuming it's equipment related.

What was your mash efficiency after correcting it?

 

[BigEasy43]

Mash Efficiency was 59% and Brewhouse Efficiency was 57% for one of my brew days.

 

[VikeMan]

Mash Efficiency was 59% and Brewhouse Efficiency was 57% for one of my brew days.

Here are some ways to improve mash efficiency:
•Crush Grains Finer
•Reduce Mash Tun dead space (redesign tun)
•Reduce or eliminate pump/hose losses.
•Batch Sparge instead of “No” Sparge
•Fly Sparge instead of Batch Sparge
•Use more total water, thus leaving “thinner” losses. But note that a longer boil would be required.
•Control Mash pH

The above is C&P'd from a presentation I did on Mash and Brewhouse Efficiency. Can be downloaded from my club's library at...
http://sonsofalchemy.org/library/

 

[BigEasy43]

So the Honey Malt is the grain that gives it most of it's color? Also, what about fermentation temp? Leaving at 67F ok or should I be raising it at all during the process?

 

[VikeMan]

So the Honey Malt is the grain that gives it most of it's color?

Most of the color in this recipe is coming from the 2 Row. Honey Malt is contributing (more than the Oats and Wheat), but its contribution is smaller than the 2 Row's contribution, because there's not much honey malt being used. That said, it's darker than if the Honey Malt hadn't been used, so if you feel the color is too dark, elimination the Honey Malt would certainly make it less so.

 

[MMP126]

Honey malt would give it color, with a Lovibond of 25. All the malts do add color, but the Honey malt would add the most color with the littlest amount.

For yeast, I like to underpitch a bit (600k cells/ml/degP) and I ferment at like 70-72F. This helps let the LAIII yeast give off some fruity esters

 

[VikeMan]

Honey malt would give it color, with a Lovibond of 25. All the malts do add color, but the Honey malt would add the most color with the littlest amount.

The Honey Malt is not contributing as much color to this wort as the 2-Row.

 

[BigEasy43]

Ok I thought the Honey malt was a factor in the bright yellow for this recipe. Good to know about the 2 row being more responsible for the color.

 

[VikeMan]

Ok I thought the Honey malt was a factor in the bright yellow for this recipe. Good to know about the 2 row being more responsible for the color.

The way to get "bright yellow" in a NEIPA is to back light it with sunlight when you take a picture. Joking, but only a little. Most of those amazing NEIPA pictures you see had a little help.

 

[BigEasy43]

LOL. Sounds about right!!

 

[BigEasy43]

Last question, I think. I've never took a reading for PH, should I be doing this?

 

[VikeMan]

Last question, I think. I've never took a reading for PH, should I be doing this?

Do you own a pH meter? If not, a good first step (or possibly only step) would be to use a Mash pH/Water spreadsheet/software that predicts mash pH based on your starting water, grist, and any salts/acids you might add to bring the pH into the desired range. You can definitely improve your beer by paying attention to your water, even if you never measure pH.

 

[BigEasy43]

No I don't own one and always thought I should. So what Mash PH/Water spreadsheet/software do you recommend?

 

[VikeMan]

No I don't own one and always thought I should. So what Mash PH/Water spreadsheet/software do you recommend?

If you just want a Water/Mash pH spreadsheet, I recommend MpH, which is free, and has been shown with real data to be the most accurate among the most popular sheets. Brewing Water Calculator: MpH Water Calculator v4.2

If you want an integrated "one stop shopping" brewing spreadsheet, that has the MpH model built in, I recommend BrewCipher, which is also free. Calculators - Google Drive
Full disclosure: BrewCipher is my mine. I created it (mainly) because of some shortcomings in popular software.

 

[BigEasy43]

If you just want a Water/Mash pH spreadsheet, I recommend MpH, which is free, and has been shown with real data to be the most accurate among the most popular sheets. Brewing Water Calculator: MpH Water Calculator v3.0

If you want an integrated "one stop shopping" brewing spreadsheet, that has the MpH model built in, I recommend BrewCipher, which is also free. Calculators - Google Drive
Full disclosure: BrewCipher is my mine. I created it (mainly) because of some shortcomings in popular software.

Vikeman, thanks for all your help and direction with this recipe and my other questions. I will definitely check this stuff out.