stuck sparge = anger

[kappclark]

Today was a test of faith ..Goal was to brew two 5 gal batches, and keg another 2 5 gallons...nice weather so high hopes..

Kegging was fine, and first 5 gallon batch was a success..

Ashamed to admit, but, when attempting the second batch (PaultheNurs's Porter), I could not get the valve to drain anything .... I dumped 12 lbs of grain into a brewpot, and furiously tried to clean out the braid and valve.

Tested with straignt water, and drained fine...

(its a 5 gallon cooler, maybe I should step up to 10 )

Put grain back in, and still stuck !! Very tired. Took cooler and threw it in the woods .. can't remember recently being so pissed off..

Taking a vacation from all grain ... (the first partial mash took under 2.5 hours)...going back to extract and partial mash ..

Has anyone gone through a stuck sparge ? Is there a stick-proof sparging system ??

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Been there, done that. Sent what had at one time been a domed 12" false bottom flying across the street in a fit of anger. Thankfully missing the New Cooper Mini that was in it's flight path. Of course, I did try to lay 30 pounds + of grain over the top of it.

Most likely, your braid collapsed under pressure. You could try a homemaid copper or plastic manifold.

I have since been using a Sabco false bottom with great success on big grain bills. My last also included about 30 pounds of grain and the FB worked flawlessly.

Good luck.

 

[scinerd3000]

rice hulls....lots of ricehulls

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yep, you need to keep a good supply of rice hulls on hand. Also, the design of your drainage system is key. I use a SS false bottom and have never had problems....

except that one time when I used a bunch of pumpkin in the mash.... shudders

 

[Beerthoven]

I use a bazooka tube in my cooler and it has never stuck on me, even with a grain bill that was 50% wheat with no rice hulls. Crush matters also. If you crush too fine, or even too coarse (many uncracked grains) then you are prone to stuck sparges.

BierMuncher recommends a blast of water from a hose directed up into the cooler through the outlet tube to clear stuck sparges.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Don't give up on all grain! I had the same thing happen to me while using a SS braid filter. I ended up dumping the grain/wort back and forth between bucket and cooler 3 or 4 times. I figured it would taste like sh$t with all that hot side aeration, but it turned out to be quite a tasty IPA!

Here's the setup I use now, which was cheap, easy to make, and is stuck sparge proof!
(1) 12" x 1/2" copper tubing
(2) 45 deg elbows
(1) 3/8" -> 1/2" FPT reducer (to fit my 1/2" MPT connection to ball valve)

 

[zman]

Yeah my first AG went something like that as well. I tried to Batch Sparge in a 10g Rubbermaid Cooler with a False Bottom as the manifold. It was a Pumpkin Ale, and yes I added 1.5 lbs of Rice Hulls. The Vorlauf went well, well it sorta did. Then I added the sparge water...10 min later stuck sparge. I blew into the hose to agitate it...nothing...still stuck. I wound up with a pitcher scooping the grains and wort out over a kitchen strainer into my boil kettle. It turned out that some grains made it through the False Bottom and into the hose out to the valve... It is in the secondary and I am going to bottle soon. I hope it will be good. I also forgot to clean my new wort chiller before adding it to the boil kettle. More beer said that there might be some residual oil or dirt from the mfr. process. I did not see any oil so I am calling it all good. Despite everything in this fiasco of a brew day I still somehow managed (by the grace of the Beer Gods) to hit a FG of 1.012.
I also got a Coleman Extreme and converted it to be a mash tun with a Bazooka Screen...Things are looking up already...lol

 

[kappclark]

Love the manifold .. do you have to solder the 45's ?

Also, how big do u drill the holes in the 12" piece ?

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Love the manifold .. do you have to solder the 45's ?

Also, how big do u drill the holes in the 12" piece ?

I should solder it, but I've used it for 4-5 batches without any problems, YMMV. I'll be soldering it sometime this weekend, I just need to get some flux and solder. The holes drilled in the manifold are 1/16" on top, and 1/8"(i think, maybe smaller) on the sides and bottom. You could probably do away with the holes on top, but it sure does drain fast with the holes on all sides.

 

[BierMuncher]

I wouldn't soldier. No need.

The heat will expand the joints and they'll hold very tight.

Plus, disassembling to clean is easier.

I'm a big fan of the manifold. That and saucepot of rice hulls in every batch make AG life a breeze.

 

[kappclark]

forgive the ignorance, but why do the rice hulls improve performance ?

 

[AN_TKE]

Rice hulls are like adding tiny straws to the grain, making it less doughy and more permeable. Since the hulls don't get mushy or stucky, it helps add to the gradation of the mash. also, they are wicked cheap.

 

[beerthirty]

and are inert to the brew.

 

[kappclark]

I never read about that ... heard it first here on HBT -

So, do you base the amount on # of pounds of grain ? Or do you just wing it ?

 

[steedtucker]

i had the same problems with the ss braid....now im using the copper with the slits and never had any problems

 

[THEDIETZ]

this is also my first time of hearing about rice hulls...although I will be attempting my first all grain today too so thats probably why I have never come across this. Are they used in every beer you guys make? and same question as above....if you do use in every beer how do you know the amount to use? I have a 48 qt coleman cooler and used CPVC to make my manifold

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I only use them when I have something sticky going into the mash (wheat, rye, pumpkin, etc.) and then I just throw in a big handful. You don't want to use a ton of them, I think they suggest not more than a pound per 5g batch. BTW, 1 pound of rice hulls is a lot.

 

[BierMuncher]

I only use them when I have something sticky going into the mash (wheat, rye, pumpkin, etc.) and then I just throw in a big handful. You don't want to use a ton of them, I think they suggest not more than a pound per 5g batch. BTW, 1 pound of rice hulls is a lot.

Yep, one pound of those fluffy buggers is a huge amount.

I go more for visual volume. For a 5-gallon batch, I'd say get a scoop using one of your soup pans.

Hulls are neutral to the brew so no damage done with too much/too little.

I've taken to using them in all my batches since I fly sparge now. They keep the grain bed fluffier and allow more efficient rinsing of the sugars from the grains.

 

[sleepystevenson]

Hey Kappclark, don't give up on all grain! As you can see, seems like pretty much if you have done all grain enough....you are gonna end up w/ a stuck sparge at some point.

My problem was the same as yours - collapsed braided manifold. (lots of wheat and rye in the grain bill didn't help...) But the main problem was there was just TOO much weight on the manifold, which collapsed it. The way I worked around it was first to take out ALL the mash and push the stupid manifold back into shape, then put about half the mash volume back into the cooler mashtun. I collected half the wort volume from the first half of the mash, (batch sparging) then scooped it out, put in the second half of the mash and collected the rest of the wort volume. Overall, a major pain in the a$$ and time consuming process (that didn't lead to very great efficiency - but did work...)

Lots of good advise here. I have begun to use rice hulls in almost every batch. Also, I eliminated the offending stainless braid manifold and opted for a full false bottom in the new system.

Good luck!

 

[kappclark]

Thanks guys -

This event seems like some kind of AG rite of passage ...

I am planning to go with a bigger system, maybe by Christmas .. and at that time, I will invest in a better solution, like the Sabco false bottom ... or the copper manifold.

Rice hulls no on shopping list when I make my inevitable return to AG..

 

[Bobby_M]

Are you absolutely sure your braid is stainless and not plastic? I've done 10 gallon batches with 60% wheat milled down to damn near flour and never stuck a sparge. I have to think something fishy is going on.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I dont' know about the OP, but my stuck sparge was not due to the braid itself but the hose inside the braid. It was fine for 3-4 batches, but the hose I used got very fatigued and under the head of the mash it just collapsed. I think if you were to use a very rigid, or reinforced line inside the braid this would not happen.

 

[Revvy]

So you are using the SS plumbing braid? I wonder if it collapsed?

One thing that I did in mine was to take out the nylon core, drill a ton of holes around it (so it looked like a machine gun barrell) boiled it for about a half hour to loosen all of the fuzzies from drilling. Then I slipped that nylon tube back into the braid and attached it in my cooler..that way it won't collapse under the weight of the grain...

Another thing I did was to stretch out the braid then smoosh it back to it's original size, hoping that it would open up the mesh a bit...That might be something else to consider as well...if you rescue your cooler from the woods.

 

[BeerPressure]

I dont' know about the OP, but my stuck sparge was not due to the braid itself but the hose inside the braid. It was fine for 3-4 batches, but the hose I used got very fatigued and under the head of the mash it just collapsed. I think if you were to use a very rigid, or reinforced line inside the braid this would not happen.

Hose inside the braid? youre supposed to remove the hose so its just the SS braid and nothing inside it.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Hose inside the braid? youre supposed to remove the hose so its just the SS braid and nothing inside it.

Ummm, negative ghostrider! At least that's not how I read the tutorials. The tube inside has several holes cut in it, so that the entire length of the braid acts as a filter, not just the end next to your ball valve intake.

 

[BeerPressure]

Xtreme Cooler Mash Tun - Lustreking Brewing

Carefully fold one end of the braid away from the hose.
Grab the hose with a pair of pliers and gently slide the braid off the hose.

 

[Revvy]

Hose inside the braid? youre supposed to remove the hose so its just the SS braid and nothing inside it.

I was writing this while you were posting yours...

One thing that I did in mine was to take out the nylon core, drill a ton of holes around it (so it looked like a machine gun barrell) boiled it for about a half hour to loosen all of the fuzzies from drilling. Then I slipped that nylon tube back into the braid and attached it in my cooler..that way it won't collapse under the weight of the grain...

It keeps the braid from collapsing, some use a vinyl hose...I just used the nylon core from the braid...

 

[BeerPressure]

Sorry to hijack but here is a thread going on about how the hose inside the braid does not matter. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ss-braid-tubing-inside-more-uniform-draining-62975/

 

[Bobby_M]

No, no no no no... nothing inside the braid... UNLESS it's a copper core with some wire wrapped around it to keep the braid from contacting anything. It's no wonder the thing is getting stuck, you're probably closing off more than 50% of the open area of the braid. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm shouting.

I wouldn't say that other discussion is "going on" as the last post was in April, but I made the same arguement over there too.

What I meant by wrapping a copper core with wire: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sanke-mlt-stainless-braid-56183/

 

[kappclark]

The braid and MLT cooler conversion design is based on FlyGuy's design...

I bought the water supply hose, then removed the hose, leaving the braid..

Clamped a plug on the end, and I was done.

I can see ho it cld collapse with 12 pounds of grain and an almost full cooler .