Stuck Fermentation??

[Mskin]

For my first all grain brew Im trying one of the Heady topper clones - http://www.eckraus.com/blog/heady-topper-double-ipa-clone-recipe. I've done a couple of things incorrectly. For starters, I didn't make a yeast starter due to timing ( I didn't consider it until too late and i didn't want to push off brew day - i consider this a mistake i wont make a gain). Secondly, I ended up about a gallon short in my fermenter. To compensate, I boiled another gallon and tossed it in to the carboy - AFTER taking my OG reading, so i dont have a reliable OG to go off of, unless someone knows how to compensate for adding a gallon of watetr to the wort. I pitched the Wyeast 1028 at 73 degrees.

On day two - I saw promising activity in the carboy at 7:00am. Light bubbling, the beginning of great things to come. By 7:00pm, it was kicking fierce.

On day three - I woke up to a krauson and strong activity all day

On day four - there was similar activity in the morning as i went off to work, but when i came home, the krausen had dropped, activity was low, and the wort had dropped to 63 ish degrees from the steady 68-70 i was ale to maintain for the first 3 days. With little experience, i fear a stalled or sluggish fermentation. I placed a heating pad on low underneath the carboy to slowly bring the wort back to temp and gradually noticed decent activity by bed time (yet nothing like the day before).

Day Five (today) - i woke up to a 70 degree wort with the airlock tossing a co2 bubble once every two minutes - very different from last night.

My questions...

1. How do i know how my fermenting wort is supposed to behave over the complete cycle?
2. Is this a stalled fermentation? What caused it? temperature? lack of yeast starter? How do I salvage this batch? Can i pitch more yeast or will the alcohol kill it - or can i build a starter first?

I plan on either purchasing a space heater with thermostat for the room to keep it at 68degrees - or a carboy warmer. not sure yet. But i really would like to revive this beer, OR, considering the time line - is it acting normal and amI just freaking out?

thanks everyone.

 

[cmoewes]

4-5 days of active fermentation is probably very typical. 1028 has a fermentation temp range of 60-72 so you've stuck in the range very well.

Air lock activity isn't the best indicator but if the krausen has dropped primary fermentation has likely finished. However, I would strongly recommend giving giving it at least another 7 days or so to finish. There are a number of by-products that can cause off flavors that come out during primary fermentation that the yeast will then break down once all the sugar is gone.

In another week, take a gravity reading and see what the final gravity it. You won't be able to calculate your ABV since your OG isn't know (actually you should be able to calculate that if you know the OG and you know you added only 1 gallon) but the FG will indicate that your fermentation is complete.

With a Heddy clone I also assume there are some dry hops so you've likely got a week or more where those need to be in the fermentor as well.

 

[flars]

What was the SG for the 4 gallons in the fermentor?
edit: Forgot the link to the calculator.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

 

[aarong]

With the OG calculated (as per flars) you can figure out what your FG should be. This yeasts attenuation is 73-77% simply multiply the last two number of your OG (1.070 would be 70) by the percents above(70 x .73= 51) then subtract that from the OG(70-51=19) and add back the 1.0 so your FG should be 1.019 in my example.

Its important to know your FG and take readings. You should take two gravity readings one day apart to see if its consistent and if you hit the number expected. Then you will know if your stuck or not.

 

[Mskin]

Thanks Gents. My initial reading was 1.07. According to the calculator (thanks), after adding a gallon I was around 1.058. Tonights sample was 1.03 (and tasty).

SO, according to the calc, I should be around a 1.016 when I'm done. I will take another measurement tomorrow night and see what progress we've made.

Thanks so far guys.

 

[flars]

I would just wait until day 12 to 14 before opening the fermentor again for a SG sample. Reduces infection risk. By waiting longer your beer should be done fermenting and the beer will be starting to clear. A few more days another sample to confirm FG. If this sample is clear and does not contain a lot of CO2 bubbles you may be ready to dry hop or bottle. CO2 in solution will keep particles and excess yeast suspended.

 

[A2HB]

1.030 is a SG I would consider "stuck" given your O.G., but as has already been stated, give the yeast more time to feed and you should see it drop off a lot more. If its still at .030 next week then youll know for sure.

 

[Mskin]

ok Ill keep my probes out of the bucket. the air lock bubbles once every 1:40. This is day 5 after brew day (brew day being zero day). it sounds like the prevailing strategy here is to let it sit and not try to "rouse" the yeast in any way. Day 7 is when i was supposed to add the first dry hop addition. that would be be Saturday. I would think an appropriate time to take advantage of the open carboy for SG reading and any nutrient additions - or what ever would be required to rouse.

Reminder that i did not make a starter - a mistake i wont make again.

 

[flars]

ok Ill keep my probes out of the bucket. the air lock bubbles once every 1:40. This is day 5 after brew day (brew day being zero day). it sounds like the prevailing strategy here is to let it sit and not try to "rouse" the yeast in any way. Day 7 is when i was supposed to add the first dry hop addition. that would be be Saturday. I would think an appropriate time to take advantage of the open carboy for SG reading and any nutrient additions - or what ever would be required to rouse.

Reminder that i did not make a starter - a mistake i wont make again.

Day 7 is by the calendar not by what the yeast are doing. CO2 produced by an on going fermentation can scrub most of the hop aroma from the beer. Wait until you measure FG.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

Yeah, 7 days is a bit short. Just give it two weeks, then take a FG reading and you'll know whether it is done. Don't worry about stalled until you hit the 2 week mark and take a gravity reading.

Also, just because there are no more bubbles doesn't mean the yeast have stopped working. They are just very active the first few days, but afterwards they go after more complex sugars as I understand it and slow down a little.

 

[Mskin]

following flars advice here. I will wait.

I am curious guys.How does .03 signify a stalled fermentation. I guess i'm not sure what the reading should have been after a few days, and doesn't some airlock activity signify a non stalled fermentation? or is this just the emittance of latent CO?

 

[tezcatlipoca]

Airlock activity is a change in pressure. Can be caused by a change in temperature or something pressing on the bucket, ie increased atmospheric pressure or someone's finger.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

And I'm not sure on the 1.03 reading indicating stall. I've had beers finish slowly on fermenting and they never stalled or turned out bad. A stalled fermentation is when two measurements a significant time apart give the same results.

There are ways to increase the vigorousness of your fermentation like oxygenating wort, making a starter, controlling fermentation temperature, providing some yeast nutrients. however, these should not help a beer finish in a week. It's gotta go a little longer.

 

[Mskin]

Local brew shop recommends i pitch more yeast today. Air lock appears frozen, SG = 1.022. Beer tastes delicious. I pitched the prescribed amount of nutrients and a package of M07 British ale yeast - Hoping for the best at this point. I think ill shake the carboy in a couple hours.

*edit*

Woops - I put in twice the prescribed nutrients. The downside of enjoying a G-Bot while meddling with the brew. Shook that baby good too.

 

[wdames]

Assuming your yeast was made the day u pitched it be 100 billion cells which is highly unluckily U needed 266 billion cells for s beer that size

 

[tezcatlipoca]

Yep, 1.058 generally requires a starter or two vials of yeast for myself. I always do a starter. Interestingly enough, if you pitched too little yeast, it would just slow them down but not stall fermentation. My guess is your beer would've finished without repitching, but under pitching yeast will cause some off-flavors. Repitching a week later won't help these flavors but will ensure the beer finished properly.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Shook that baby good too.

You don't want to shake the fermenter this far into fermentation. You could oxidize the beer. Giving it a gentle swirl is OK if you're trying to rouse the yeast. You're down to 1022 so it looks like it's still fermenting. Give it a few more days and if it hasn't budged throw some 05 in it.

Since M07 is a dry yeast, you may not have underpitched as much as you think. Dry yeast has about double the cell count of liquid.

 

[wdames]

Probably doesn't matter there shouldn't be any oxygen in rhere

 

[Mskin]

So tonight i decided to open the carboy and pitch some hops. Please refer to previous steps taken 5 days ago. Tonights SG= 1.022. The concoction tasted out of this world. Im so happy with the flavor, almost like drinking grapefruit juice. Not too sweet, i would drink this stuff as it stands now!!! But what to do at this point? Anything? All i fell i can do is wait 7 days before pitching next round of hops and see where i'm at.

Good god it was delicious. I hope this baby makes it.

Meanwhile, I begin my starter tonight for my second attempt at this all grain brew..

 

[tezcatlipoca]

Glad it turned out. At this point, is carry out the rest and then start carbing it up while cold either in a keg or bottles. I usually dry hop for 4 days at a time, but I think 3 would be sufficient.

 

[Mskin]

thanks tez Are we OK at 1.022?

Thanks for the input. Its great to have this community.

 

[tezcatlipoca]

The final gravity says it should be 1.017, so atleast its not too far off. It didn't attenuate all the way down though, since you have 1.022. My IPAs usually go down to 1.010, but I guess I don't like them as sweet. Thing is, it very well could be finished at 1.022, but as long as you're happy with it, that's fine.

I don't know what would've given you such a low attenuation rate, but maybe next time a yeast starter is in order. With the OG at 1.078, I think a starter is a must. They call for a 2 L starter, too. It could have just been that we didn't get a true OG reading from your adding a gallon of water. I wouldn't worry about it much this time. Next time, I'd just try to pay close attention to these things.

 

[Mskin]

It's interesting. I'm planning on kegging tonight. its been 18 days and fermentation was stuck at 1.022 - even thought there is apparent activity in the airlock - i understand this may be barometric pressure or other expansion / contraction of fluids, although the fermentation container next to it is static.

I built another batch, this time with a starter. I've had pretty much the same experience as the first, although I don't plan on mucking with this one as i did the original. There may be other flaws in my process i will iron out with additional brews. My mash temperature is 4 - 5 degrees higher than it was suppose to be, i understand this produces less fermentables (154 degrees). I don't think im sparging out correctly and my OGs tend to be lower than predicted.

My current plan is to take a stab at harvesting the yeast from this batch and brewing a new batch this weekend or next. Maybe i can find a Sea Hag clone...

Anyway - thanks all for the input, suggestions and advice. It's a fun learning process...