Strong Scotch Ale grain bill, too simple?

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ArkotRamathorn

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So just joined a home brewing club and my blue moon clone attempt got 2nd place on last nights tasting (dude, nevermind it was out of 4 beers... I'm proud damnit). Septembers meeting will be judging IPAs and I have two potentials I could enter into that, but November it appears that Scotch Ale and Bourbon Barrel beers are on the docket so I want to jump on getting a strong scotch ale started and hopefully relatively aged come November.

12#Golden Promise
12oz Brown Malt
4oz Chocolate
2oz Peated(or cherrywood) smoked malt (I am undecided here, I cant imagine less than 1% could be overbearing in terms of smoke considering the generally accepted recipe for Old Chub uses something like .5# of peated smoke malt)

1oz EKG at 60 min
.5 Fuggles at 30 min

Would this be too simple of a grain bill for something like a strong scotch ale? I will be doing an extended boil like 120 minutes to get some extra kettle carmelization, hopefully start around 6 gallons and end up with 4 gallons in the fermenter. I will be using S-04 for my yeast, should 1 pack of S-04 be ok or would 2 packets be massively overpitched?

Disclaimer: I love strong scotch ales so I'm making it for myself and theres some extra motivation to brew something for others to taste.
 
I prefer the breiss cherrywood over peated malts. It's not as overpowering and adds a great roasted smoked flavor to the beer. I also bump in a little 4 oz. addition of Crystal 60 for that added caramelly flavor it has in mine. I use plain roasted barley and some chocolate malt for roasty flavoring and dark color.

That's about it, so yes your grain bill is close to mine. You might add in some medium-dark roast crystal malt like I do for more caramel flavor.

Now, the yeast is very important with this beer style. Using an authentic Scottish ale yeast would be ideal. Irish ale yeast also does a great job at producing an authentic tasting scottish ale. My favorite yeast of all though for this beer is......

Windsor. Plain old Windsor ale yeast. Two reconstituted packets per five gallon batch with oxygenation and nutrient additions.

There's a few beers where Windsor is an excellent choice. Scotch ales are one of them. The flavor of my scotch ales with Windsor is absolutely fantastic. Yes, it's a lazy yeast. Yes, it doesn't floc out of solution well. But.... it produces absolutely great complex stone fruit and pear esters that make a scotch ale really something special. If I'd re-think anything about your recipe, it'd probably be the yeast.
 
I don't know why I said brown malt, losing my mind. I will switch out some of the brown malt for like some 60L.

And I wouldn't have even known Windsor existed, I can always dig trying new things.
 
Why not use both smoked malts? I just bottled my strong scotch that used THREE smoke malts: cherry, peat, and rauch. It's delicious!
 
I was planning on keeping the smoked malt contribution to 1% maybe 1.5% maximum. I really want it in the back ground to give something dark and mysterious.

I don't know how they do it with the Old Chub with over a half pound of smoked malts, I *love* that beer but I am not a big fan of a ton of smoke in a beer. But I do want some for added complexity.
 
I was planning on keeping the smoked malt contribution to 1% maybe 1.5% maximum. I really want it in the back ground to give something dark and mysterious.



I don't know how they do it with the Old Chub with over a half pound of smoked malts, I *love* that beer but I am not a big fan of a ton of smoke in a beer. But I do want some for added complexity.


The recipe I'm referencing has the three smoked malts making up 27% of the grain bill, but you'd never know it. Look up "Claymore" in the recipe database.
 
So I am digging into the bjcp guidelines for this and had two new questions.

First do you guys prefer a 60/30 minute additions for hops? Or just a single 60 minute addition? I want to do 2 additions at 60 and 30 because I figure I'll get a little more flavor and aroma complexity this way.

Also as weird as it is, I enjoy the decoction mash process, would this be completely out of place on a strong scotch ale? I am gonna split the recipe and try a 2.5 gallon attempt first time so I can play it around with the second batch and potentially up the smoked malt a bunch.
 
I brewed permo's strong scotch ale recipe back in December. It was quite possibly the best beer I've brewed thus far. I've never used golden promise, so you may have a better idea of what you're trying to achieve with it, but Maris otter is an excellent choice for a base malt for this type of beer.

If you want that characteristic kettle caramelization, you can boil down the first runnings and then add them back to the kettle near flameout. Some brewers do this to avoid a time-consuming extended boil.

This is a personal preference, but I would avoid smoked malts all-together.

If you get a chance to glance at permo's recipe, you should. There are a fair amount of specialty Malts in there, but it does call for a decoction (which I did) and the end result was delicious. So to answer your question, no decoction is not a bad choice for this beer style. My only critique of that recipe is that it calls for chinook, which I like, but aren't very appropriate if you're brewing to style. East kent goldings, fuggle, or williamette (low alpha) are more traditional.

I used white labs Edinburgh ale yeast in mine. Highly recommended. Low flocculation, but it fermented well for me and had an excellent flavor profile. Ferment reasonably cold if you can. High 50s-low 60s.

Scotch ales also benefit from a period of cold storage. I left my secondary in a 45 degree fridge for about two months before kegging and bottling. Clarity was excellent. I can't speak to how this affects flavor, but I can tell you that it yielded great results for me.

Hope this helps. Happy brewing.
 
Unfortunately I am lacking equipment for a long low secondary. My creep haunted basement stays pretty cool though, max mid to upper 60s. I could grab a quick swamp cooler setup though that should stay pretty cool, I'll just plan an extra long secondary to allow it lots of time to flocculate.

I just got an 8oz bag of EKG so no fear on that, I did see several recipes with chinook which I have on hand as well but I really like east kent goldings in general.

Since I'm splitting the ingredient I bough to do 2 2.5 gallon attempts I'll play with the parameters on the second attempt. If 1oz of cherrywood smoked malt is completely overpowering (.08% of bill) I can always just cut it completely. And I think the first attempt I'll try a decoction and on the second attempt the wort carmelization to try and do a side by side comparison of the two.
 
My recipe is more like the Claymore version,
12 pounds two row
1 pound Munich
1 pound Honey malt
1 pound Cara Vienne
1/2 pound Black patent

Nugget 0.5 @60
Fuggles 1.0@10

I used Irish Ale 1084 in a 1 liter starter, and fermented @55* F until same hydrometer reading 3 days in a row, I then ramped the temperature up very slowly to 68* F, and bottled. Wow, what great flavor it had. I bottled on 04/14/2014, and the flavor has really came along. There is no doubt there is alcohol in it, and, in 3 or 4 more months from now, I'll taste it again, and let you know what it tastes like then.
The O.G. was 1.084
 
Definitely go with the kettle caramelization. Take 2 gallons of first runnings and boil them down until you get a pint of stuff - at that point it'll be like toffee wrapped around the spoon, nothing left to actually stir. This can take a while on stovetop.

I did this with a really risky scotch ale recipe that was 50% brown malt / 32% 2-row as a base and it came out sweet and rich. Only used a pound of Caramunich.
 
Since I'm splitting the ingredient I bough to do 2 2.5 gallon attempts I'll play with the parameters on the second attempt. If 1oz of cherrywood smoked malt is completely overpowering (.08% of bill) I can always just cut it completely. And I think the first attempt I'll try a decoction and on the second attempt the wort carmelization to try and do a side by side comparison of the two.


I'd be very interested in hearing the results of a split batch like this!

Sidebar: I saw one recipe when I was researching Christmas ales that was based on a strong scotch, and the brewer put dried cherries in the first runnings before he reduced them. Something I've wanted to try for a while now.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Used the cherry wood malt twice. Word to the wise would be to keep it under 2lbs. Had one pound in a robust porter that was strong as hell even after two months in the bottle. Once it conditions for awhile it blends in really well so you should be golden on a modest amount.
 
I used 1/4 lb. peat smoked in my Wee Heavy and I don't pick up any smoke at all in the final product. I would not fear 1/2 lb. next time, which ther WILL be. It was excellent. Totally agree with aiptasia in post #2. The real hero in this beer is a true Scottish ale yeast. Mine was all Maris Otter, btw. 1 oz. EKG at 60 minutes, also.

Very Skull Splitter-esque.
 
Brewed this recipe yesterday, I did a half recipe though instead of doing a full 5 gallon batch, I will save doing a full 5 gallon of this recipe when I get it dialed in with smaller batches.

Which ended up working to my advantage, I've been regularly getting in the range of 65% efficiency and realized I'm probably not using enough sparge water, and potentially mash was too thick. So with this beer I wanted to make sure I got my volumes right (at least on the front end before boil, more on this later).

Final gravity was 1.064 (added 2lbs of light LME to the recipe for insurance purposes) which would make me really sad if I hit that number in a 2.5 gallon batch, but it ended up at 4 gallons so I managed 75% efficiency :ban:. Basically I have a slightly more bitter higher gravity Scottish Export 80. Or I have a slightly lower gravity Strong Scotch Ale. Either way I'm happy with the results, the hydrometer sample was good. I had a 100 minute boil so even if the online calculators say its too light, it's definitely in the 15+ SRM range. First beer I've used Irish moss on and was very happy when the hydromter sample was very nice and clear already with a nice bronze-red hue. If I gave it another 40 minutes I would've hit the volume just about perfect.

Went with 2oz of the cherry wood smoked malt as well for the half batch so technically doubled what I was going to put in on the full 5 gallon recipe. Quick 10 minute decoction with approximately 4lbs of the thick mash. Next time I do this I will do the other strategy to boil down the first gallon of runnings. Now time to get to work on my cherry stout recipes and strawberry rhubarb wheat.


Edit: Before anyone notices the comment "slightly hoppy scottish export 80". Yes, in my boundless wisdom I completely forgot to split the hop amounts in half... I eventually concluded I would use .75oz of EKG at 60 and .25oz at 30 minutes for full 5 gallon. So I ended up around 33 IBUs, generally I find I need to add more hops to achieve the same level of perceived aroma/bitterness in my beers (probably due to the spring water I use), and if my homebrew club notices the extra hoppiness it'll end up being a good laugh for me.
 
So ended up bottling the first half batch of this yesterday. Very happy with the results in general. Mouthy, thick, sweet, with the very very very tinniest bit of alcohol warmth.

One good thing to come out of this experimental batch. I know the max amount of cherrywood smoked malt I can use in a batch, 2oz in a 4 gallon batch. SWMBO could very much taste it, saying basically its just before the edge of being too much.

Since the batch is still super young, I force carbonated a 14oz 'sample', I imagine the smoked character will morph a ton in 4-8 weeks. I find the smoked character is tasty right now as a supporting flavor and aroma but I think I could only handle max another ounce in a similar batch size.
 
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