Strike Volume Measurement

[JamieT]

So for you guys with fairly automated systems... How are you managing the strike water volume issue in an automated or semi-automated capacity?

More specifically.. Can you tell your system to transfer X volume from HLT to MLT and walk away for a few minutes while the pump does it's thing without worrying about moving too much water?

I have an idea on how to do this but I just wanted to make sure there wasnt already something available on the market..

JT

 

[samc]

Not doing it yet, but would use a float switch hooked to my BCS controller. Curious to hear your ideas.

 

[Orangevango]

Ive got a swmbo for that.

 

[mattreba]

BrewTroller does this though it's not something that's been tested very thoroughly yet. We use the Freescale MPX5010 sensor and a calibration table in setup where you calibrate specific analog voltages to known volume levels. We take into account atmospheric pressure by reading a zero volume during system startup and subtracting this value when calculating volume. Then it's simply a matter of controlling the valve profiles during the fill stage based on whether or not the read volume is less than the target volume. I can pull out some of the code used for the volume calculations if it helps you.

 

[JamieT]

I am using a BCS-460 as well.. Here are my thoughts..

My HLT and MLT are "Keggles", straight sided.. Using the ID of the Keg I can easily calculate volume per inch of water (or fractions there-of).. I am think about mounting a vertical float switch on the end of a piece of SS Tubing.. I can build a simple bracket to hold the tube vertical in the HLT and allow it to be adjustable vertically.. A quick and easy SSR+DPDT+Indicator Light gives me the ability to set a start point (water's surface).. Then with a permananetly affixed SS ruler I can lower the float swith into the MLT by the distance which corresponds to my required volume transfer and Im good to go.. It's an absolute measurment..

Obviously there are a few variables.. Slight ID variations in the Keg, volume occupied by Herms Coil, and other mechanisms in the HLT, and volume to prime the transfer flow circuit from the HLT over to the MLT.. These are values that will be static and can be calculated and compensated for relatively easily.

It's not the most graceful solution, obviously I would prefer to use a DP transmitter, a totalizing flowmeter, or a fancy load cell configuration but Im not excited about the prices for those solutions..

JT

JT

 

[Whiskey]

I have a horizontal float switch in my HLT to kick the A419's offset function on about a half inch from the tip of the heating element which kills the element to prevent it from contacting with air while it is in use.

The same could be done to control the pump to kick off when a volume is met. I will see if I can dig up the company, but I know I saw an adjustable float valve that could be used to allow X number of quarts to be pumped before turning the pump off.


Or like mentioned above fabricate an adjustable height level switch. It would actually be pretty easy to do.

A cheap polypropylene horizontal level switch at Mcmaster Carr goes for $14. Put this on an L bracket that is on the end of a graduated rod that can be locked into place. This hooked to a relay and a controller that goes to the pump. Pretty much what is described above. Set for 4.5 gallons (or whatever) and it will kick the pump off once the liquid level reaches the specified volume.

However, I just use a graduated sight glass.

 

[humann_brewing]

Here is my high tech way of measuring

An 8 QT pot with notches for each QT, 4 QTs is a gallon, do the math and there you go.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

My take is to have a normally closed float switch only in the HLT. Set it on a vertical rod as mentioned to your total water volume necessary minus the amount needed to strike. Once the switch opens when it reaches the level, the pump stops. Then you do not reference the switch in your sparge state (at least for BCS users); you then run the pump until the normally open float switch in your BK is closed, and the boil can begin.

That is how I plan to do it.

 

[Sawdustguy]

The right way to do it is with a metering pump that can be turned on or off by a controller. The caveat is that metering pumps are very expensive. I think a ultrasonic level measurement would be a less expensive alternative. I would think a horizontal sliding float switch would be pretty inaccurate. This ultrasonic sensor would be absolutely perfect: Cannon Water Technology EchoPod® DS14 They are $330 but maybe a group buy could be done to bring the price down.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can't see it but I sit here shaking my head every time I come across threads discussing ways to make a home brewery "push button" automated. I understand the potential fun in the figuring and building part but I can't see how it makes brewing any more fun. I'm interested in hearing from the highly automated camp about motivations.

Is it that hard to open a valve and watch a sight glass to know when to shut the valve?

I don't consider systems that hold HLT or mash temps highly automated at all but I guess it's a matter of opinion. I'm not saying automation is wrong, but it's not for me.

 

[kladue]

After brewing for 15+ years there were no challenges left in brewing or competitions. Having built a steam injection RIMS system and made a number of single and multi step mash batches it was getting to be boring. Automation was a new frontier to explore and having plenty of time on my hands while on the road and unable to brew, the design of the new system kept me occupied during the downtime. With a background in process control and electronics the hardware was not that much of a challenge but learning to program in Java and SQL has been interesting. Currently working on the software to carry process from recipe creation through brewing process control to fermentation as something to do while spending the next year on the road.

 

[annasdadhockey]

You can't see it but I sit here shaking my head every time I come across threads discussing ways to make a home brewery "push button" automated. I understand the potential fun in the figuring and building part but I can't see how it makes brewing any more fun. I'm interested in hearing from the highly automated camp about motivations.

Is it that hard to open a valve and watch a sight glass to know when to shut the valve?

I don't consider systems that hold HLT or mash temps highly automated at all but I guess it's a matter of opinion. I'm not saying automation is wrong, but it's not for me.

+1 Bobby, well said.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Working long odd-hour work weeks, having multiple young children, the desire to spend time with them, the desire to spend time with my wife... these are reasons why I want to streamline some of my process.

If I can automate from dough-in through sparge, that saves me a good 2-3 hours depending on the type of brew I am undertaking. 2-3 hours of free time is valuable.

That said, this is a hobby, and part of the fun of the hobby for me is the tinkering--and sytem design and implementation is provides many opportunities to tinker.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Working long odd-hour work weeks, having multiple young children, the desire to spend time with them, the desire to spend time with my wife... these are reasons why I want to streamline some of my process.

If I can automate from dough-in through sparge, that saves me a good 2-3 hours depending on the type of brew I am undertaking. 2-3 hours of free time is valuable.

That said, this is a hobby, and part of the fun of the hobby for me is the tinkering--and sytem design and implementation is provides many opportunities to tinker.

+1 I have enjoyed designing and putting my brewery together and modifing it as much as I do brewing with it. Whats wrong with that. The limited automation in my brewery just takes care of some of the boring aspects of the brew, like monitoring and stabilizing the HLT temperature and making sure the Mash temperature is constant. I still have to throw valves, keep and eye on things and understand brewing.

I can't wait until next year until my hop plants bear bigger cones than they did this year, my first year growing them. I enjoyed the heck out of motorizing my barley crusher. I plan on building a Keezer to replace my beat up old kegerator and a larger fermentation chamber. My wife, while not a big beer drinker has a degree in Biology and has agreed to help me culture and ranch yeast. I want to embrace the hobby with much more vigor than I did when I brewed with extracts. It's more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and a great stress reliever.

So whats wrong with that?

 

[JamieT]

Well....Hmmm... I guess my response would as follows:

I am an incessant gear head and perfectionist... I am not looking for the "push-button" solution, but I am looking for ways to eliminate as many possible sources of variation (other than those by design in a specific batch) from my process..

I love the design, build, debug, fine-tune process as much as I do the brewing itself.. For me it adds an additional dimension to brewing, I can combine my love of beer and brewing with my passion for engineering and process improvement.

Dont get me wrong.. I respect the experienced brewer who can sit down with a manual system and turn out perfect beer every time, there is an art to it that cannot be denied.. I also feel that there is an art form in designing a brew system that can produce very consistent worts with less opportunity to screw up when I have a few too many during the process..

JT