Strike temp for unmalted Millet and Buckwheat

[Miniman1380]

Hi

I am going to do a batch unmalted and oven roasted millet (6kgs) and buckwheat (2kgs) does anyone know the most effective strike temp?

Regards
Andy

 

[IslandLizard]

I've never brewed with those. They need to be gelatinized before the enzymes can get to the starch matrix to convert. Every grain has its own a gelatinization temperature, don't know what they are for those grains. Perhaps boil them first or do a cereal mash. The buckwheat can be milled on a very narrow gap to speed up the gelatinization/conversion process. Millet is too small to mill.

What are you using to convert them?

 

[Miniman1380]

Hi thanks for your reply im am going to use a alpha amalyse for 2.5 -3 hrs, the last attempt i did i had a strike temp of 64oc, i bought a corn mill hopefully it will grind the millet..

 

[IslandLizard]

The buckwheat is pretty hard, and the grains are probably large enough for your corn mill to crack them. The millet is so small, it simply won't crush, and it's not needed, IMO, because it's small and ready to absorb the water.

But I would definitely boil those grains for an hour into a thin porridge to thoroughly gelatinize them, then thin down to your desired mash consistency and temperature, then add the enzymes. Don't you need beta-amylase too to make the wort more fermentable? Otherwise you'll end up with a highly dextrinous wort.

 

[Legume]

I often use a large amount of unmalted (but lightly toasted) millet and buckwheat in my beer.
A few pounds of Eckerd specialty malted rice (crystal or James brown) does add a lot to this type of recipe!

Both the buckwheat and millet are milled (separately) in my corona style mill.
I suspect that your efficiency would be very poor if you did not grind the millet.

My mash process for unmalted grains is below:

I add the milled grains (~14 lb grain) to room temperature water(~4gal) in a 10gal pot.
Add 2 Tbsp of Termamyl (thermally stable A-amylase).
Apply heat and stir until temperature reaches ~180 F.
Turn off heat and wrap pot in insulation, rest for 2 hours.
Add ice to lower temp to 140F.
Add 15 ml SEBamyl L (amylase), rest for 60 to 90 minutes at 140F.
Sparge (I drain the mash into a zap pap style lauder ton).
Boil as usual.

I know that SEBamyl is difficult to find, I am sure that you could substitute AMG-300 (B amylase that is easy to buy online); but you would need to adjust the 140 F rest temperature to whatever is ideal for AMG-300 and probably shorten the 140 F rest to 10 or 20 minutes, because AMG-300 is a very aggressive enzyme and will result in an excessively dry beer if not used carefully.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Where are you getting the Termamyl? Eckart gave me his source but they don't sell to homebrewers.

 

[Legume]

Termamyl is easy to find online, I have ordered it from anapolis homebrew (as well as from a few other retailers).

SEBamyl is the tough one to get.
You can buy it from the manufacturer in bulk, but the bulk quantities are more than any sane homebrewer needs.
AMG300 is also easy to find online, and could probably be substatuted for the SEBamyl but some mash optimization would be needed to avoide an overly dry beer.
Diastase enzyme could be another (easier to find) option to replace SEBamyl.

 

[Miniman1380]

Hi thanks for your help, im based in Australia so i dont have access to the special amalyse, i am trying to do a 20ltr fermentation, i was thinking of using 6kgs of millet and 2kgs of buckwheat. With your vast experience what would you suggest in term of water qty? And is that grain too much for the qty?

 

[Legume]

Hi Andy,

I was just in Australia for work last week (I could have smuggled you some Termamyl ).

For your grain bill I would mash in 19 or 20 liters of water.
8 kg is more grain than I use for a batch of that size, unless I am making a big beer.
I normaly use 6.3 kg of grain in a 20 L batch of beer, but you may find that you need more (or less) depending on your eficency and your target gravity.

Good luck!

 

[glutarded-chris]

Thanks Legume,
I am using the diastase enzyme but the Termamyl will probably be a benefit at the longer higher temperature rest.

 

[Miniman1380]

Hi

Thanks for your help, i ended uo with 15l at 1.04 so i added 5L of water and 1.1kgs of honey and ended up at 1.05 at 20L hopfully it turns out ok

 

[Miniman1380]

Hi i checked the fermentation is down to 1.010 but it seems to have a medicinal smell to it, i have to say in not sure why i my sanitation was 100% any ideas or is it the millet?

 

[Legume]

I do not usually get medicinal aromas in un malted millet beers.

The couple of times it has hapened it has been in batches using yeast known to produce phenolics (T-58, and WB06).

Normally I use US05, Conan, Nottingham, and Belle Saison... and have never had medicinal flavors when using these yeast.

 

[Miniman1380]

I have been using lallemans danstar Dry 97?? Which i normally use for my extract beers, and never had a problem.

Have you ever used this yeast or have heard of any problems with this yeast.

I do not usually get medicinal aromas in un malted millet beers.

The couple of times it has hapened it has been in batches using yeast known to produce phenolics (T-58, and WB06).

Normally I use US05, Conan, Nottingham, and Belle Saison... and have never had medicinal flavors when using these yeast.

 

[Legume]

I have never used Bry 97, but I think it is quite similar to US 05, and should ferment quite clean.

 

[Miniman1380]

Do you think my provlem could be caused by not allowing the oven roasted unmalted buck wheat and millet not sit for a few weeks before processing. I have been trying to do some research and i have read a few websites and im wondering if this could be the cause?