Strange smell and taste

[LandoAllen]

So the last 4 batches that I have put into the keg have a strange smell. I made 42 gallons (all 5 gallon batches) last year and have been bottling and kegging it as it ages. The odd smell is very similar to the odd taste as odd as that sounds. Even though I used a different yeast on every batch the odd smell/taste seems apparent in every batch so far...

If I had to describe the smell it is a slightly acidic/pungent smell. It is not rhino farts or sulfur like. If I had to describe the taste I would say that it reminds me of vinegar but I know the batches aren't infected. It still tastes like a super smooth cider but something is off...What is causing this smell/taste? Is it the cambden that I added?

For a better description of how I made the batches see this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/2013-cider-yeast-olympics-434790/

Also the apple juice was made from golden delicious and red delicious apples if that helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Well, in the other thread, you say you used 1/2 the recommended dose of campden; yet in this thread you say that you "know it's not infected." How do you "know?" I'm not saying it is infected, just that the 1/2 dose would still leave things open to possible infection. Fresh pressed juice will have various pathogens in it, everything from wild yeast to acetobacter are possible. Sulfates will dissipate, acetobacter won't; you have to kill acetobacter.

Did you add any acid to the must? I don't think red and/or golden delicious would be excessively acidic, but excess malic acid can be perceived as a sort of "slightly vinegary taste." If it was fresh pressed cider, I'd say hit it with 1 campden tab per gallon just to be sure. I've never sufited an ale or lager yeast before, so I'm not sure how well they'll fare, but wine yeast has been bred to tolerate a certain level of sulfites. Then again, maybe you're just smelling/tasting young cider & it just needs to age a bit?
Regards, GF.

 

[LandoAllen]

Well I don't think it is young cider. It's been aging for about 9-10 months now. And I do know why young cider tastes like compared to aged. It is very smooth other than the bite you get at the end from the off flavor.

As far as the infection, I guess it could be infected but the cider is crystal clear and I have never seen any signs of infection. I have heard that half the dose is all that is needed. I've never had any trouble in the past with half.

It still tastes like cider just with a distinct off flavor that I can't really put my finger on. I'll take a swig of apple cider vinegar when I get home to compare.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[LandoAllen]

In 10 months time wouldn't that fully turn the cider into vinegar by now if it was infected?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gratus fermentatio]

In 10 months time wouldn't that fully turn the cider into vinegar by now if it was infected?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Very likely, and you would've seen the "mother" in there as well. Was the juice fresh pressed? Or maybe the brown, cloudy sweet cider? Oxidation could be an issue; but not oxidation of the cider per se, rather oxidation of the fruit before fermentation. Ever leave a cut apple on the counter until it turned brown? Doesn't take long. That browning is oxidation. Now imagine something similar happening to the fruit or juice before you even got it. The sugar in the juice would've likely masked any off flavours, but after fermenting that sugar out, it's noticeable. Could also have been from bruised or windfall fruit.

Jack Keller has this to say about a "sour flavour" in wine, that might shed some light on the off flavours you describe:

"Sour Taste: The most common cause for a sour wine is acidity. In berries (including grapes and tomatoes) and fruit, the core cause of too much acidity is most likely under-ripeness, followed by insufficient dilution with water, not enough balance with sweetness, or a combination of the foregoing with a secondary cause. Secondary causes of sourness are (a) the fruit or juice spoiled before the wine reached a self-preserving 10% alcohol level (common in watermelon), (b) a lactic acid bacterial infection soured the wine (especially likely if MLF did not conclude or sulfites were not used to prevent MLF), or (c) a souring product such as lactose (milk sugar) or lactic acid was used incorrectly.

Fruit that have bruised spots (wind-fall peaches, plums, apricots, nectarines, loquats, apples, etc.) should not be used in winemaking without first cutting out the bruises, as these spots will quickly spoil and ruin the wine. Juice from melons, but especially watermelons, is prone to spoilage if fermentation is not conducted very quickly. For these wines, it is best to use a starter solution into which 2 or 3 sachets of a very fast yeast (such as Montrachet) are added to ensure a rapid build-up of yeast population before introducing it to the must. Hydrate the yeast in the starter solution for several hours before it is needed to allow the yeast population to double and redouble."

That's all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
Regards, GF.