Stoopid newb question...why do I need LME???

[BubbaMan]

I'm a total newb and so I have to ask this stoopid question...

My local retailer sells Brewers Best kits and they all have a can of LME along with DME, specialty grains, hops, yeast, etc. The same seller also sells many kinds of bags of DME and bags of the specialty grains.

What if I built my own "kit" using only 1 or two kinds of DME, hops and yeast and (optional?) perhaps specialty grains. Could I make a decent beer this way? What makes LME essential?

Thanks!

 

[Jtk78]

Nothing makes it essential. It's typically cheaper than dme, but when I ues extract, I prefer dried over liquid. And yes, you can brew a great beer with dme, perhaps some specialty grains, hops and yeast. There are loads of recipes all over the web. Use the Google machine for "------- extract recipe" for your style of choice.

 

[Sadu]

You can make beer with just LME or just DME.

I don't think there's any particular reason why LME is popular, maybe it's cheaper, but also some kits will include hop extract in LME so you don't need to add your own hops.

If you are a total noob, as you say, you may find that sticking to tried and true recipes or kits is going to give you better beer than what you can build yourself. Don't get me wrong, experimenting is half the fun, but balance is also important and a good quality kit with LME / DME / hops / Specialty grains should get you pretty great beer.

 

[r4dyce]

In my experience, and this is Not a rule, LME seems to be available in more varieties than DME. LME is cheaper than DME, but DME is more shelf stable. You can buy DME in bulk and use it as needed. It would be difficult to keep liquid in bulk like that and have it stay fresh.
I don't brew a lot with extract but I would lean towards dry.

 

[r4dyce]

Sorry should have added you can definitely make great beer with extract. If it's your first time out it might be worth trying a kit just to get the process down and be reasonably confident that the end product will taste good.

 

[rodwha]

When I used extracts I preferred LME. It's cheaper but it also dissolves in the wort easier and faster, especially for flameout additions.

 

[RM-MN]

I'm a total newb and so I have to ask this stoopid question...

My local retailer sells Brewers Best kits and they all have a can of LME along with DME, specialty grains, hops, yeast, etc. The same seller also sells many kinds of bags of DME and bags of the specialty grains.

What if I built my own "kit" using only 1 or two kinds of DME, hops and yeast and (optional?) perhaps specialty grains. Could I make a decent beer this way? What makes LME essential?

Thanks!

You don't have to use either LME or DME. You could be bold and derive your fermentable sugars right from the grain. That's where malt extract comes from. While it may seem difficult it really is not. Do some reading about all grain and about BIAB and you may decide to skip the malt extract.

 

[bajaedition]

Dryed has a bit more sugars per pound, 12 percent of so, sheesh liquid make 1.037 per pound ina gallon and dried makes 1.044, thats a bit more than 15%
I prefer DME, I think LME is just to messy

 

[jrcrilly]

I buy my grains in bulk but I buy DME in sealed 1 pound bags and use each bag as it is opened. It is so extremely hygroscopic that I worry about a larger package turning to stone after the package is opened and closed a few times. I only use it in a few recipes so it would have to last a long time on the shelf. That said, I agree that LME is too icky and messy.

 

[BubbaMan]

@Jtk78
@Sadu
@r4dyce
@rodwha
@RM-MN
@bajaedition
@jrcrilly

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.
FYI part of my interest in DME is that my local retail carries many kinds of Briess DME and the prices are cheaper than what I see online. They carry NO LME at all. I think the reason may be that the small town I live in is not too far away from the Briess malt factory.

@RM-MN Going to all-grain is an interesting idea but my biggest concern is that I live in a small apt and it looks like a LOT of equipment to have around.

 

[kh54s10]

When I do extract brews I use only light DME and derive flavor and color from specialty grains. I keep my DME in the refrigerator in it's bag and that inside a ziplock bag. It stays dry and lasts a long time.

You can do all grain in a pot on your stove with a grain bag. Search BIAB.

 

[bajaedition]

Bubba, there is a lot to learn, not going into allgrain gives you a bit of leeway as you are not learning that system.
yeast and starters are a great place to seek knowledge to improve your beers, this hobby has a long learning curve, staying in extract for a while is not a problem. It actually gives you room to learn.

 

[rodwha]

I actually find LME to be a little less messy. It all just pours into the pot and is then scraped with a spoon whereas DME, when poured out to measure lets dust fly in no less than a 1 foot diameter.

Read up BIAB (Brew In A Bag). All it requires is a large bag that fits around your pot to mash in. I did it this way for years.

 

[BubbaMan]

@kh54s10
@bajaedition
@rodwha

Thanks!

BIAB is something that I'll look into for sure!

 

[RM-MN]

@Jtk78
@Sadu
@r4dyce
@rodwha
@RM-MN
@bajaedition
@jrcrilly

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.
FYI part of my interest in DME is that my local retail carries many kinds of Briess DME and the prices are cheaper than what I see online. They carry NO LME at all. I think the reason may be that the small town I live in is not too far away from the Briess malt factory.

@RM-MN Going to all-grain is an interesting idea but my biggest concern is that I live in a small apt and it looks like a LOT of equipment to have around.

I do 2 1/2 gallon batches on my kitchen stove. It takes a 5 gallon stock pot (which you probably need for extract batches too) and a paint strainer bag. Of course you need a good thermometer too and a colander is nice to have to set the bag in as it drains. but the colander is not essential if you have a way to suspend the bag over the pot.

A quick summary of how to do the all grain BIAB. Heat water to strike temp (about 160F.). Turn off heat, put bag into pot, stir in grains, put the lid on and wait. Insulating the pot will be a good idea. A big towel will be all you need. After the mash period is up, lift bag and suspend it over the pot to drain out. Squeezing the bag of grains speeds this up but gains you little wort. Bring wort to a boil, add hops and boil for 30 to 60 minutes. Cool, dump into fermenter, and add yeast.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm an advocate of newbies NOT doing all-grain right off the bat, unless you have a mentor who can walk you through the entire process. Brewing is not rocket science, and is in many ways simple, but it's not simplistic.

There is a lot to figure out at the beginning. By doing an extract brew you eliminate the issues related to mashing (whether by mash tun or brew-in-a-bag). That way you can focus on the boil, hop additions, timing, then chilling and racking to the fermenter, then controlling fermentation temperature.

If you do an all-grain at the outset, you would want to concern yourself with mash temps, crush, PH, water (!), how to vorlauf and sparge if a traditional mash tun, and so on. And if the efficiency isn't what you expected, you're not going to get what the recipe intended.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I just believe that it's not the way to bet. Here's a couple caveats: first, if you're lucky, might work. Won any lotteries lately?

*******************

Second, and I'd suggest you to try to do this regardless of all-grain or extract: do everything you can to find a local brewer who can either walk you through your first brew day, or may allow you to watch and participate in their own brew day. I did this prior to mine (I watched him do it, it was an extract brew), and it made a world of difference in my own first brew day.

If you do that, you'll find you drastically accelerate your learning. I have a local friend who I introduced to brewing. He just recently kegged his THIRD batch and took a growler to our local homebrew club meeting last night. Big hit. It's quite good, was done via all-grain, he needs to do it again. He likes it, others like it, I'm not an IPA guy, and *I* like it.

So how did he manage to do that on his third brew? Because I taught him. He watched me do one, we did one together, then he did one with me watching (mostly--I was also responsible for quality control of the previous batch ), then he did his own without me there.

He's come a long way very fast, but he had a mentor. Me. And I enjoyed that. He's kegging, he just built a keezer, he's making good beer using All-grain methods. But there's no way he would be where he is without the mentoring (and his willingness to learn!). His has got to be one of the fastest learning curves ever, that he's brewing all-grain, kegging (!), building a keezer, doing fermentation control.....

You may be able to substitute for a local mentor by Youtube videos, and help here at HBT. But it likely won't be as smooth.

**********

It is said by many, and I think they're right, that one of the biggest leaps forward a new brewer can make is controlling the temperature of the fermenting wort/beer. You need a way to keep it at coolish temps. Too warm, and you'll get off-flavors (exception: beers intended to be fermented warm).

So as you do this brewing thing, also research and be prepared to implement some sort of fermentation temp control. Something as simple as a swamp cooler (big aluminum turkey pan, old t-shirt, water) can work remarkably well, and it's cheap.

For the new brewer, IMO, the three biggest things they can focus on to make good beer are sanitation, water, fermentation temperature control. If those three things are taken care of, it will be difficult to NOT make good beer.

Good luck! And, post how it all goes.

 

[rodwha]

^
I absolutely agree!

I have to add that fermenting most yeasts too warm can create fusel alcohol which is nasty. That was my first batch thinking the A/C set at ~72* would do it.

 

[BubbaMan]

@mongoose33
@rodwha
@RM-MN

Thanks!
I have been watching some YT videos but would welcome your suggestions as to who has the best, most reliable teaching videos. Haven't found a local mentor yet, but hoping to.

 

[mongoose33]

@mongoose33
@rodwha
@RM-MN

Thanks!
I have been watching some YT videos but would welcome your suggestions as to who has the best, most reliable teaching videos. Haven't found a local mentor yet, but hoping to.

No idea as to videos. I never watched them to begin with, once I had seen a brew day completed my learning was almost entirely internet sources other than videos (such as here on HBT).

You don't indicate your location; mind tell us where you live? If you're in or near an urban area, there certainly are HBT members who would be willing to work with you.

 

[BubbaMan]

No idea as to videos. I never watched them to begin with, once I had seen a brew day completed my learning was almost entirely internet sources other than videos (such as here on HBT).

You don't indicate your location; mind tell us where you live? If you're in or near an urban area, there certainly are HBT members who would be willing to work with you.

Marshfield, WI...which is pretty much in the middle of now-where, lol

 

[mongoose33]

Marshfield, WI...which is pretty much in the middle of now-where, lol

Shoot....I'm doing a brew day either tomorrow or Sunday, I'd invite you to sample and participate, except....you're 4 hours away.

 

[BubbaMan]

...For the new brewer, IMO, the three biggest things they can focus on to make good beer are sanitation, water, fermentation temperature control. If those three things are taken care of, it will be difficult to NOT make good beer.

Good luck! And, post how it all goes.

By water do you just mean using good quality water?

I think I'm doing my sanitation right, but still have to work in temperature control.

I have been buying bottled water for all my brewing... Ice Mountain Spring water to be exact. That's ok, right?

 

[RPh_Guy]

From my understanding for extract recipes it is best to use distilled water or reverse osmosis (RO)-purified water. The extract already contains minerals from the water used to make the extract and adding additional minerals isn't ideal.

FWIW I started brewing with all-grain on my stove, never used extract. I currently use a strainer instead of BIAB although BIAB does seem easier.

 

[mongoose33]

By water do you just mean using good quality water?

I think I'm doing my sanitation right, but still have to work in temperature control.

I have been buying bottled water for all my brewing... Ice Mountain Spring water to be exact. That's ok, right?

How water matters depends on whether you're doing all-grain or extract, but in each case, what you put in will help determine what you get out.

For all-grain, the water composition relates in part to how the mash proceeds. You need to balance minerals/alkalinity in the water against the acidity of the grain to get to a PH of the mash between 5.2 and 5.6 (some disagreement on the exact range, but this is a safe range). Darker grain is more acidic, so you need to adjust the water amendments (if any) to account for this. There are spreadsheets and calculators online to make this readily accessible for brewers.

For extract, the mash has obviously already been done, so those all-grain concerns are moot. But, you still need good water. A famous brewing book states that if your water tastes good, you can make good beer. Well. Not necessarily. Mine tastes great, but it's lousy for brewing most recipes. It's a major reason IMO my first three recipes (extract) were not particularly good.

Among other things, the presence of Chlorine as a water disinfectant can greatly and negatively affect the resulting beer. Generally if you use bottled water for extract you'll be fine. You might want to look into altering the water chemistry to enhance bitterness or maltiness, but it's not necessary, just an option.

So--if you ignore water, you might be ok--but I'll bet that almost always when people say water doesn't matter, that means they were lucky in that their local water just happens to be OK for brewing. Mine is not, and many have water that just doesn't cut it. Knowing where you live, I'd bet your water is drawn from wells, and that may mean it's quite mineralized (mine is, and is).