Step mash/Temperature/Decoction

[drunkinThailand]

I just emailed Weyermann asking them if their Vienna Malt needed a protein rest and this was their response (they responded very quickly and seemed eager to help)

"you don’t need a protein rest for Weyermann® Vienna Malt. It is highly modified in proteolysis and you can mah-in at 62° C directly. We recommend a rest of 50 minutes at this temperature. Then heat the mash up to 68° C and hold there a rest of 10 minutes. Afterwards increase the temperature up to 72°C and a rest of 30 min. Then mash-up at 78° C."

just wondering what people around this board thought of that, seems like a low initial mash in temp.

also, I was hoping to do a single decoction (the original recipe called for one) and was wondering how you all thought I should work that in.

Thanks for any input

 

[didinho]

If Weyermann says you don't need a protein rest, follow those instructions and don't worry.
for decoction, I do the first step, let's say 65°, then boil 30% of the mash for 20 minutes, and then return the boiled part to the rest of the mash, to reach 72°C for 20 minutes

 

[drunkinThailand]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I should have been clearer (i'll edit the original post and add this) but I was also wondering about the initial temp of 62C (143F) which seems low to me. All the things I've seen so far are around 67-69C (152-156F) at least.

 

[JimRausch]

I agree that 143 seems a little low for a 2-step mash, but not wildly so. When I do a 2-step decoction, my 1st step is usually 145-147. After 10 minutes, I take 3 qt. thick mash, raise that separately to 155-157 for 10 minutes, then boil it for an additional 10 minutes before adding it back to the main mash to get up to 155-157. Hold that for 20 minutes, then mashout. Total mash time is usually around 75 minutes.

 

[BigEd]

I just emailed Weyermann asking them if their Vienna Malt needed a protein rest and this was their response (they responded very quickly and seemed eager to help)

"you don’t need a protein rest for Weyermann® Vienna Malt. It is highly modified in proteolysis and you can mah-in at 62° C directly. We recommend a rest of 50 minutes at this temperature. Then heat the mash up to 68° C and hold there a rest of 10 minutes. Afterwards increase the temperature up to 72°C and a rest of 30 min. Then mash-up at 78° C."

just wondering what people around this board thought of that, seems like a low initial mash in temp.

also, I was hoping to do a single decoction (the original recipe called for one) and was wondering how you all thought I should work that in.

Thanks for any input

That's a "German style" mash which starts at a lower temp than what you may be used to. It happens to work very well with German lagers as well as Kolsch and even altbier. The initial low temp helps yield a well-attenuated beer giving that nice, clean, slightly dry finish many German brews have.

For the decoction, no it isn't necessary like it may have been many years ago when malt quality wasn't as good as today. However, a decoction can have other benefits for tweaking flavor & color. If you want to try one bear in mind that the typical temperature rise for a decoction is ~11C. So you could mash in @ ~51C, then pull a decoction. In theory you would hit the main rest temp of 62C. Be aware that it's common for decoction novices to come up short so don't worry. If you do just make a quick adjustment with some boiling water or do a quick, smaller second pull.

 

[drunkinThailand]

Thanks for the info Jim and Ed, great stuff.

I will be brewing a Bock, does that make a difference? I didn't see that in the styles listed by BigEd.

Also I usually BIAB, so I have a thin mash. Does anyone know if I should be adjusting my temps because of that?

And if adding the decoction back doesn't reach the temp I am shooting for (which I think it won't because of the thin mash) can I just direct fire it to get the temp up?

 

[BigEd]

Thanks for the info Jim and Ed, great stuff.

I will be brewing a Bock, does that make a difference? I didn't see that in the styles listed by BigEd.

Also I usually BIAB, so I have a thin mash. Does anyone know if I should be adjusting my temps because of that?

And if adding the decoction back doesn't reach the temp I am shooting for (which I think it won't because of the thin mash) can I just direct fire it to get the temp up?

That mash schedule will be fine for a bock. I have to admit I have no experience with BIAB mashing Typically a decoction mash is mashed in quite thick. I use a 1qt/1lb (2L/1Kg) ratio.

 

[JimRausch]

I don't BIAB very often, but do use it a couple times yearly when I'm brewing a high OG brew with a bigger grain bill than my 5G cooler will hold. So, I'm not the most authoritative source for BIAB, but yes I have done both a step mash by adding boiling water, and a decoction with my BIAB/large cooler hybrid system.
My BIAB batches have been Denny's Waldo Lake Amber 3 times and a Dopplebock once.