Steeping grains

[jkharris200634]

I'm new to homebrewing. Started back in September of last year. I enjoy the hell out of it! My first 3 homebrews were kits. Oktoberfest, Irish Stout and Hefeweizen. They were all fantastic! My fourth beer, I had a problem. It was a Pilsner that never fermented. So I decided to educate myself more and start on a new leaf in 2015. Ok, one thing I should point out is when I did these kits I made 4 gallon batches out of 5 gallon kits. This was totally accidental and I'm a little embarrassed to say I misjudged the measurements. That being said I bought the Oktoberfest and Irish Stout kits again. This time I made the total 5 gallon batches. They DO NOT taste at all the same. They taste burnt. Another thing I did differently this time was instead of bringing the temp of the water to 155 degrees and then steeping the grains, I went ahead and put the grains in and then brought the temp up to 155 for 15 mins. I think this may have caused my off flavors. To be clear the instructions weren't clear on when to add the grains but just to not get the temp above 170 (which it didn't).

All that being said, is it normal to add the grains and then bring to desired temp or bring the temp up and then add grains. Thanks for any input guys!

 

[Sailingeric]

I have been bringing up the water to 150-155 and removing from heat and steep for about 20 minutes. It is possible that the bottom of your pot may be hotter than the water and if the bag of grains sank to the bottom they have been gotten toasted. I made a blonde ale that I steeped Pilsner grains and oops, those need to be mashed but I think at the temp I was at it got some mashing because it is everyones favorite beer and right or wrong I am doing it again.. and that being said, if the first time it worked for you and I would stick with that.

 

[stonecutter2]

A couple of things come to mind when you say "burnt."

First, did you turn off the flame when you added your extract? And, was it liquid extract or dry extract? Liquid extract (LME) likes to sink straight to the bottom, and with a flame heating the kettle and a very hot bottom of the kettle, that'll caramelize/scorch/burn the sugars in no time. That might lead to a burnt taste. Dry malt extract (DME) tends to float more, so i generally prefer to use that.

Second, when you put the steeping grains in and heated the water, did the bag touch the bottom of the kettle? If so, you might have scorched the grains a little bit, with them being so close to the heat. They could actually reach a pretty hot temperature being right up against bottom of the kettle. I usually tie the bag on the handle of the kettle to suspend it in the water.

If those two things don't apply, i'm kinda stumped

As for whether it's normal to put the grains in and bring them up to temp, or bring the water up to temp and then drop grains, i think it's personal preference.

Some people say to bring the water to temp, then steep for 15 minutes or so. I'm lazy to I just stick the grains in while the water heats up, in my mind allowing any other beneficial enzymes along the way to come out and do their thing (though the chances of them doing much is minimal given how fast the water is likely heating).

So anyways, I personally drop the grain in at about 90-100F and then pull at 160-1655F, let it drain, then a quick dunk when the water hits 170F and another looooong drain into the kettle (sort of a little sparge).

The overall idea is that you want the grains steeping in warm/hot water until you get the color you want, but not to have the water exceed 170F as you'll then start extracting tannins that will create off flavors that are more "astringent" than "burnt."

 

[stonecutter2]

I have been bringing up the water to 150-155 and removing from heat and steep for about 20 minutes. It is possible that the bottom of your pot may be hotter than the water and if the bag of grains sank to the bottom they have been gotten toasted. I made a blonde ale that I steeped Pilsner grains and oops, those need to be mashed but I think at the temp I was at it got some mashing because it is everyones favorite beer and right or wrong I am doing it again.. and that being said, if the first time it worked for you and I would stick with that.

Even if grains need to be mashed, steeping them can add body, color, and flavor without adding much fermentable sugars

It can certainly add an interesting dimension to beer, and with pilsner I believe it would also benefit head retention somewhat too.

If the result is yummy, keep on brewin' it

 

[actionjackson905]

I'm new to homebrewing. Started back in September of last year. I enjoy the hell out of it! My first 3 homebrews were kits. Oktoberfest, Irish Stout and Hefeweizen. They were all fantastic! My fourth beer, I had a problem. It was a Pilsner that never fermented. So I decided to educate myself more and start on a new leaf in 2015. Ok, one thing I should point out is when I did these kits I made 4 gallon batches out of 5 gallon kits. This was totally accidental and I'm a little embarrassed to say I misjudged the measurements. That being said I bought the Oktoberfest and Irish Stout kits again. This time I made the total 5 gallon batches. They DO NOT taste at all the same. They taste burnt. Another thing I did differently this time was instead of bringing the temp of the water to 155 degrees and then steeping the grains, I went ahead and put the grains in and then brought the temp up to 155 for 15 mins. I think this may have caused my off flavors. To be clear the instructions weren't clear on when to add the grains but just to not get the temp above 170 (which it didn't).

All that being said, is it normal to add the grains and then bring to desired temp or bring the temp up and then add grains. Thanks for any input guys!

More than likely you scorched the grains, or the LME/DME to give you that burnt taste.

2 things when BIAB brewing, bring the water to the desired temp, factor in approx 10-20 degree heat loss when dropping the grains. Keep the bag off the bottom of the pot and try to maintain steep temp with low heat on/off method.

As for the Pilsner, more than likely was fermentation temps. Lager yeast needs much lower temps to work. 72+ degree will not work usually.

Keep in mind when doing the boil, at high heat you should have about a 1 gal loss to evaporation for a 1 hour boil. To hit 5 gal, you'll need 6 when starting the boil.

 

[Sailingeric]

Even if grains need to be mashed, steeping them can add body, color, and flavor without adding much fermentable sugars

It can certainly add an interesting dimension to beer, and with pilsner I believe it would also benefit head retention somewhat too.

If the result is yummy, keep on brewin' it

Yep, I plan on it and it does hold a nice head and is fairly clear, a little irish moss would help next time

 

[Sailingeric]

I forgot about the removing from heat when adding the LME.. that is a good point. I remove my pot from heat right before it starts to boil, add a little, stir, add a little more and stir.. no rush :rockin:

 

[Ski12568]

Another option is to steep your grains, then boil that wort for your hops additions. Wait till the end of the boil to add the LME/DME so you don't caramelize or burn the extract.

You could also try tying your steep sack to the pot handle to keep it off the bottom.

 

[AnOldUR]

Even if grains need to be mashed, steeping them can add body, color, and flavor without adding much fermentable sugars

If you steep grains that need to be mashed and don't get conversion the starch will carry through to your finished beer. At best it will only cause a little haze. At worse it can be a source of infection.

 

[Sailingeric]

After an hour of boiling I would think the risk of infection would be near zero.

 

[jkharris200634]

Thanks guys. I didn't think about it but I think it was the problem of letting the grains sit at the bottom and they probably burnt a little. As for the malt extract, I always pull off the heat before adding them.

 

[AnOldUR]

After an hour of boiling I would think the risk of infection would be near zero.

It has nothing to do with boil time. Especially in a homebrew environment, there's a fair chance that some bacteria or wild yeast contact your wort during chilling and transfer. Normally it's overpowered by the yeast you pitch and most of the sugars are consumed. Brewers yeast does not degrade starch, so if it's present, these unwanted bugs have the food they need to reduce the stability of your beer. More of a problem in beers you plan to age, but although small, always a threat and not worth the risk in my opinion. I make an effort to keep starches from unconverted grain out of my wort for both improved stability and reduced haze.

 

[stonecutter2]

If you steep grains that need to be mashed and don't get conversion the starch will carry through to your finished beer. At best it will only cause a little haze. At worse it can be a source of infection.

Good point re: infection.

The haze, i guess it depends on whether you want clear beer or not.