Stark Raven Mead (burnt honey mead attempt)

[Llysse]

Just for reference, here is that recipe in the original French and in English translation (from Eileen Power's 1928 The Goodman of Paris:

Le Menagier de Paris

BOCHET. Pour faire six sextiers de bochet, prenez six pintes de miel bien doulx, et le mettez en une chaudière sur le feu et le faites boulir, et remuez si longuement que il laisse à soy croistre, et que vous véez qu'il gette bouillon aussi comme petites orines qui se creveront, et au crever getteront un petit de fumée aussi come noire: et lors faites-le mouvoir, et lors mettez sept sextiers d'eaue et les faites tant boulir qu'ils revienguent à six sextiers, et tousjours mouvoir. Et lors le mettez en un cuvier pour refroidier jusques à tant qu'il soit ainsi comme tiède; et lors le coulez en un sas, et après le mettez en un tonnel et y mettez une choppine de leveçon de cervoise, car c'est ce qui le fait piquant, (et qui y mettroit levain de pain, autant vauldroit pour saveur, mais la couleur en seroit plus fade,) et couvrez bien et chaudement pour parer. Et se vous le voulez faire très bon, si y mettez une once de gingembre, de poivre long, graine de paradis et cloux de giroffle autant de l'un que de l'autre, excepté des cloux de giroffle dont il y aura le moins, et les mettez en un sachet de toile et gettez dedans. Et quant il y aura esté deux ou trois jours et le bochet sentira assez les espices et il piquera assez, si ostez le sachet et l'espraignez et le mettez en l'autre baril que vous ferez. Et ainsi vous servira bien celle pouldre jusques à trois ou quatre fois.

"BOCHET. To make six sesters of bochet take six pints of very soft honey and set it in a cauldron on the fire, and boil it and stir it for as long as it goes on rising and as long as you see it throwing up liquid in little bubbles which burst and in bursting give off a little blackish steam; and then move it, and put in seven sesters of water and boil them until it is reduced to six sesters, always stirring. And then put it in a tub to cool until it be just warm, and then run it through a sieve, and afterwards put it in a cask and add half a pint of leaven of beer, for it is this which makes it piquant (and if you put in leaven of bread, it is as good for the taste, but the colour will be duller), and cover it warmly and well when you prepare it. And if you would make it very good, add thereto an ounce of ginger, long pepper, grain of Paradise and cloves, as much of the one as of the other, save that there shall be less of the cloves, and put them in a linen bag and cast it therein. And when it hath been therein for two or three days, and the bochet tastes enough of the spices and is sufficiently piquant, take out the bag and squeeze it and put it in the other barrel that you are making. And thus this powder will serve you well two or three times over."

A "sester" seems to be, in English measure, 15 pundas, or 12 or so pounds, making is about 1.5 gallons. But the original French sextier can refer to different measures sizes, this one is most likely eight pints or a gallon. Ish.

So you've either got about 1-1/2 gallons of honey per 9 gallons of water, or 1-1/2 per 6, depending. I'm guessing it was most likely meant to be six. We did 1-1/2 with four of water, decided on new spices/herbs that we thought would harmonize with the decribed "roasted marshmallow" flavor, planned a nutrient schedule and so on.

I also looked at a bunch of other old recipes, too. Looks like some of the old recipes in the famous Digbie book call for cooking the honey and water for about a half hour, probably to sanitize but also to remove the scum. This first one here seems to caramelize the honey when the water has already been added, boiling it for three hours:

The Closet of the Eminently Learned Sir Kenelme Digbie Knight Opened

WEAK HONEY-DRINK

Take nine pints of warm fountain water, and dissolve in it one pint of pure White-honey, by laving it therein, till it be dissolved. Then boil it gently, skimming it all the while, till all the scum be perfectly scummed off; and after that boil it a little longer, peradventure a quarter of an hour. In all it will require two or three hours boiling, so that at last one third part may be consumed. About a quarter of an hour before you cease boiling, and take it from the fire, put to it a little spoonful of cleansed and sliced Ginger; and almost half as much of the thin yellow rinde of Orange, when you are even ready to take it from the fire, so as the Orange boil only one walm in it. Then pour it into a well-glased strong deep great Gally-pot, and let it stand so, till it be almost cold, that it be scarce Luke-warm. Then put to it a little silver-spoonful of pure Ale-yest, and work it together with a Ladle to make it ferment: as soon as it beginneth to do so, cover it close with a fit cover, and put a thick dubbled woollen cloth about it. Cast all things so that this may be done when you are going to bed. Next morning when you rise, you will find the barm gathered all together in the middle; scum it clean off with a silver-spoon and a feather, and bottle up the Liquor, stopping it very close. It will be ready to drink in two or three days; but it will keep well a month or two. It will be from the first very quick and pleasant.

Here's another one that seems to do some caramelization--not so much as the first. And it has the same ratio of honey to water (1:4) as the French one (depending on how you measure a sester):

ANOTHER

Take a quart of honey to a Gallon of water; set the Kettle over the fire, and stir it now and then, that the honey may melt; let it boil an hour; you must boil in it, a Sprig or two of Winter-savory, as much of Sweet-marjoram; put it into tubs ready scalded, till the next day towards evening. Then tun it up into your vessel, let it work for three days; after which hang a bag in the barrel with what quantity of Mace and sliced Nutmeg you please. To make it stronger then this, 'tis but adding more hony, to make it bear an Egg the breadth of a six pence, or something more. You may bottle it out after a month, when you please. This is the way, which is used in Sussex by those who are accounted to make it best.

I'm given to understand the egg was used as a sort of primitive hydrometer. This seems strange to me, since an egg will even float in water if it's old. But I suppose Digbie was even further from the LHBS than we are. In the above recipe, as much egg should be sticking out of the liquid as a sixpence is wide.

Seems a little ucky. But then again, a lot of old recipes call for clarifying the mead by cooking it with egg white and broken egg shell.

I looked at other recipes, too. Like this one has a sort of nutrient addition.

MEATH WITH RAISINS

Put forty Gallons of water into your Caldron, and with a stick take the height of the water, making a notch, where the superficies of the water cometh. Then put to the water ten Gallons of Honey, which dissolve with much Laving it; then presently boil it gently, skimming it all the while, till it be free from scum. Then put into it a thin bag of boulter-cloth containing forty pound weight of the best blew Raisins of the Sun, well picked and washed and wiped dry; and let the bag be so large, that the Raisins may lie at ease and loosly in it. When you perceive that the Raisins are boiled enough to be very soft, that you may strain out all their substance, take out the bag, and strain out all the Liquor by a strong Press. Put it back to the Honey-liquor, and boil all together (having thrown away the husks of the Raisins with the bag) till your Liquor be sunk down to the notch of your stick, which is the sign of due strength. Then let it cool in a woodden vessel, and let it run through a strainer to sever it from the settlings, and put it into a strong vessel, that hath had Sack or Muscadine in it, not filling it to within three fingers breadth of the top (for otherwise it will break the vessel with working) and leave the bung open whiles it worketh, which will be six weeks very strongly, though it be put into a cold cellar. And after nine moneths, you may begin to drink it.

However, Elf doesn't care for raisins, and in the end it seemed silly to do it this way since we had nutrient on hand anyway.

Most were like this: just boil a half hour or so and then pitch yeast.

ANOTHER OF THE SAME LADY [Lady Stuart]

To four Gallons of water put one Gallon of honey; warm the water Luke-warm before you put in your honey; when it is dissolved, set it over the fire, and let it boil half an hour with these Spices grosly beaten and put in a Canvass-bag: namely, half an Ounce of Ginger, two Nutmegs, a few Cloves and a little Mace; and in the boiling put in a quart of cold water to raise the scum, which you must take clean off in the boiling. If you love herbs, put in a little bundle of Rosemary, Bays, Sweet-marjoram and Eglantine. Let it stand till it is cold, then put into it half a pint of Ale-barm, and let it work twelve hours; then Tun it, but take out the bundle of herbs first.

So, those are some I looked at. I could swear I found a modern meadery that had posted a description of its bochet, but I can't find it off hand. This one describes bochet as burnt sack, but doesn't carry a bochet (at least not right now). This one has a bochet, but no real description of the recipe. Sorry I can't find the one I was examining at the time. It sounded interesting. It was a burnt sack, too.

 

[meading_of_minds]

My DH had tucked one of my bochet meads in his closet. He opened it yesterday and gave me a big thumbs up. And a request to definitely make more of this one, right to asking me if I had enough honey to start another batch soon. So I guess I'll be buying more honey!!!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Just wanted to say I burnt up a batch on 20091214, 20091228 Racked to secondary.
20100111 cold crashed, then racked to keg to bulk age a little. Tasted Heavy, kind of nutty, caramel flavour. really not impressed.
20100228 Bottled, tasted very heavy and I was not impressed.
20100419 tasted again, and now I can see where this may be very interesting, different but it is not a waste. It's almost like a mead porter, just so different I have a hard time describing it.

 

[machinelf]

Thanks for the update. We recently racked this to tertiary (to get it off the spice bag that I was unable to pull out ) and I have to say that I wasn't at all happy with the flavor. But it is young, so I'm hoping that a few years will turn it into something.

Our sample had a flavor that reminded me of a cola flavored cough syrup--my wife said it tasted like Jagermeister. Definitely not what I was expecting, but again--I have to keep telling myself that it's still too early to judge it. I'm going to bulk age it in the carboy for at least another year before I bottle it.

Just wanted to say I burnt up a batch on 20091214, 20091228 Racked to secondary.
20100111 cold crashed, then racked to keg to bulk age a little. Tasted Heavy, kind of nutty, caramel flavour. really not impressed.
20100228 Bottled, tasted very heavy and I was not impressed.
20100419 tasted again, and now I can see where this may be very interesting, different but it is not a waste. It's almost like a mead porter, just so different I have a hard time describing it.

 

[Nerdie]

I don't like my mead too sweet... how sweet is it? I remember making a prickly pear mead with 20lbs of honey.. and it was too sweet.... 14 lbs of honey I liked better...

so you boiled honey for about 2 hours... would u recommend 170 mins like another member did?

I never heard of zinc fortified yeast... is that dead yeast? .1 g? that's a very little, what kind of scale did u use? So that gets boiled right?

Something that always confused me about yeast nutrients (extract). I have some, looks like salt, it's white and crystalized. But isn't there bacteria in it that can contaminate the mead? Are we supposed to boil it? I remember I threw some in while boiling another mead... and it boiled over!!! DOH!!! are we supposed to boil it? If you boil it... is it bad? But if you don't you introduce contaminates... still confuses me...

thanks




The official recipe from 2008 Nov/Dec Zymurgy page 46. Article starts on page 45 - "Mead: Party Like its 1949"

18.5 lb light honey
4.0 g yeast extract or yeast nutrient
0.1 g zinc fortified yeast as nutrient
3 Tablespoon yeast (40g) dried champagne or mead yeast (Prise de Mousse recommended)

Target original gravity 1.130 - 1.138
Approx Final Gravity 1.028-1.038
Alcohol 14 to 15% by volume

Add honey to pot. Do not add water. Gently boil the honey until dark and tastes caramelized.

Add 1 gallon of water, zinc fortified yeast and blend into the "scorched honey" Stir until dissolved well.

Blend hot honey and water mixture to 2 gallons of cold water and add to your primary.

Top up to 5 gallons total volume. Aerate extremely well and add dissolved yeast nutrient (yeast extract)

When temp is below 80 F add re hydrated yeast. Ferment between 70-75 F

It may take 3 weeks to 3 months to finish primary.

Rack and transfer to secondary. Store at cooler temperatures Rack off sediment after six months to a year. Bottle when clear and all fermentation ceased. Cork in wine bottles for long term aging.

 

[MeadWitch]

Awesome drip photo. Lady of the house is a genius! Great photo sequence as well.

 

[whiskey_pickle]

Right down the road from you in Clarksburg.....Have you guys tasted anymore samples lately?

 

[Arau]

it's been a couple months since i started and the last time i tasted mine it tasted like bitter burnt sh*t. but i'm giving it time, lots of time =)

 

[machinelf]

Awesome drip photo. Lady of the house is a genius! Great photo sequence as well.

Thanks! She definitely has the brains in this outfit.

Right down the road from you in Clarksburg.....Have you guys tasted anymore samples lately?

No, we haven't touched it. It's still sitting in secondary (or was it tertiary?), but we're planning to bottle it soon so we can have that carboy back. When we do I'll update here with tasting notes. But I'm thinking this won't be drinkable for a few years. If we do this again I'll consider less of a burn, more like what bargainfittings did, since his version has won a few awards already!

 

[Sharkman20]

Thanks! She definitely has the brains in this outfit.



No, we haven't touched it. It's still sitting in secondary (or was it tertiary?), but we're planning to bottle it soon so we can have that carboy back. When we do I'll update here with tasting notes. But I'm thinking this won't be drinkable for a few years. If we do this again I'll consider less of a burn, more like what bargainfittings did, since his version has won a few awards already!

Wow, I'm pretty curious to see how this turns out.

 

[fatbloke]

Well done to Machinelf and Llysse.

That is what I call an excellent thread. Nicely explained, excellent pictures, etc.

I do hope that it turns out well, given all the effort you've both put in.

regards

fatbloke

p.s. and yes, a bochet is still on my "to do" list....

 

[BryanThompson]

Do you all think there would be greater complexity if you removed some of the honey at the 90 and 120 minute mark and add them to the fermenter to have different levels of caramelization?

 

[biochemedic]

I wanted to add to this thread today as I've just finished wrapping up my first bochet mead! There's some things that I've discovered, which I think I've seen hinted at on other pages/sources, but I think they bear repeating (read: big safety issues!):

1) when honey boils, the apparent volume increases DRAMATICALLY! 18 lbs of honey is a couple inches in the bottom of my kettle...once boil hit, the level of "liquid" is at *least* 4 to 5 times higher! Bottom line: you need a MUCH bigger kettle than you might think...

2) the boil requires constant attention to fiddle with the heat level, and needs to be stirred almost constantly to prevent even further rises in the boil and subsequent boil over.

3) Boiling honey is damn f*&King hot! And it likes to splash up and out with the bigger bubbles...my ring and pinky fingers will tell you that you would be well served to wear some sort of protective glove, or probably even better, a *really* long spoon.

4) When you add the water at the end of the boiling, DO NOT add it quickly. I mean this...literally add it like an ounce or so at a time. When water hits hot honey, it boils instantly and sprays damn f*&King hot boiling honey everywhere.

5) Do this outside, but be prepared to battle the bees, wasps and other assorted insect fiends...it would help to have a partner just to shoo/swat them away.

All in all though, my brew was very successful, and I'm really excited at how this will turn out. It smells awesome, is a beautiful shade of mahogany brown, and the hydrometer sample tastes like drinking a perfectly roasted marshmallow....

 

[huesmann]

Maybe you could rig some kind of electric mixer paddle to stir your kettle as you boil? Stirring does tend to keep the "boil" down, because you're breaking the bubbles that cause it to boil up.

 

[chefmike]

Any taste notes on this now?

I am intrigued. I am thinking about doing some mead. I can get $12/ 5lbs. Now to read more recipes.

 

[harveydent]

Hoping to wake this thread up, how does it taste now?

 

[biochemedic]

Hoping to wake this thread up, how does it taste now?

Mine already tastes awesome...it's a nice reddish chestnut brown, smells of caramel and roasted marshmallows. It's very smooth, and there's a slight residual sweetness that perfectly complements the caramel and roasted flavors. Overall, it's one of my most favorite meads ever! As you can see from my above post, my first bochet is less than a year old, and already is very, very drinkable (and actually has been for several months since bottling it in early November)...I've already got a 2nd batch going (cocoa bochet, as part of the Leap Day 2012 group brew), and can't wait to see how that one will turn out!

 

[Machalel]

I need to make me one of these and stick it down the back of the closet and forget about it for a few years

 

[machinelf]

Do you all think there would be greater complexity if you removed some of the honey at the 90 and 120 minute mark and add them to the fermenter to have different levels of caramelization?

Possibly. Sounds like something to try, for sure! Although it might be easier to have two boils going and combine them later than to try and pour out part of a volume of boiling honey and leave some to continue boiling, though. That stuff is HOT.

Hoping to wake this thread up, how does it taste now?

I guess we need to pull out a bottle and see! We'll do that over the next few days, or maybe this weekend, and then update with tasting notes. I have to say, however, that we aren't expecting much. I really think we messed this batch up with too much spice. But you never know, it might mellow into something interesting.

Thanks for the interest, everyone. Look for tasting notes in a few days.

 

[harveydent]

well I did a simple caramel as well pics here, and man does honey foam when boiled wow!

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjznzXdZ

 

[Llysse]

Well, it turned out a lot better than we expected, given our initial impressions of cough syprup or alcoholic Dr. Pepper!

It's actually pretty durn good. I liked the level of sweetness... slightly sweet without being cloying at all. I think we hit "semi sweet" right where we wanted to. There is a little honey and toasted marshmallow right now along with some plum or maybe prune. It's smooth; the alcohol hotness is gone. The spices are now in the background, rather than up front.

Here are a few pics from this weekend:

It's dark... but when the light shines through it, it's really an amazing... I don't know, liquid gold. Very pretty.

Machinelf's dad tasted it with us, and he asked for seconds (perhaps he would have asked for thirds, but he did have to drive home!). So, I think we're pretty relieved. It was so awful at first!

 

[Machalel]

Looks a beautiful colour!

By all accounts, Bochets get better and better with age... possibly more so than normal meads!

 

[hazegray77]

Its amazing what time will do to a "bad" batch! I never dump until I give it some time! Made a key lime wheat once, got to much of the pith, was wayyyy to bitter at first, after a starter couple months it was yummy!

 

[blawjr]

That has to be the most beautiful color liquid i've ever seen

 

[Llysse]

We are opening another bottle of this tonight. It's been nearly three years. We'll update later as to how it's progressing.

 

[Aoife3Sheets]

We are opening another bottle of this tonight. It's been nearly three years. We'll update later as to how it's progressing.

Just learned about this recipe, and am eagerly awaiting word of how it aged! I'll definitely be trying it once I get some bulk honey.

 

[WVMJ]

Its been a while, looks like that 3 year old stuff is a killer WVMJ

We are opening another bottle of this tonight. It's been nearly three years. We'll update later as to how it's progressing.

 

[machinelf]

I'll remind my wife that she left some folks hanging here, because she is better at relating flavors than I am.

I will say that it just keeps improving, although it's probably never going to be my favorite. If we ever made this again I think I would just ditch the spices altogether--I honestly think that's the only thing about the flavor I don't like.

 

[Llysse]

Sorry it took me so long! To me, The Stark Raven Mead now tastes very much like a holiday beverage: warming, with vanilla and toasted marshmallow notes, and just slightly sweet. It's nice to sip in front of the fireplace of a winter evening. When it was very young, the spices were overwhelming, but after three years, they're significantly in the background. There's just enough there to sort of hint at a spiciness, and I think it will only get better.

This mead puts me in the mind of a dessert wine; it's not nearly that sweet, but something about it makes me think it would pair well with gingerbread cookies or pecan pie. There is definitely still an underlying honey flavor, too. Maybe it would go nicely with baklava. I love it.

Has anyone else tried a bochet recently? I'd love to hear other impressions.

 

[WVMJ]

I just started one this month as an experimental batch. After smelling it I had a strong desire to add a vanilla bean but the wife insists on experimental batches being pure to form for the first one so we know what the base tastes like in the end by itself. I want to backsweeten it later, thinking of making another quart of carmalized honey trying the crock pot method to decrease the water volume and use it at the end to boost the caramel flavor and add a little more sweetness as a dessert wine. Thanks for the post fellow Mountaineers, WVMJ