Stalled Fermentation- 2 Yeast Packs Later

[mac_1103]

The enzyme suggestion seems like it wouldn’t help given the iodine test.

The iodine test, even if you did it at the right time, only tells you that the starches have been converted. It doesn't tell you exactly what they've been converted to. IOW, it doesn't tell you how fermentable your wort is. Most beer and ale yeasts can only ferment glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, and maltotriose, and some strains aren't very good at fermenting maltotriose. Except for diastatic strains, they can't ferment dextrins (carbohydrates with more than three sugar units). Mashing at higher temperatures tends to produce more dextrins and therefore less fermentable wort.

 

[ahags]

The iodine test, even if you did it at the right time, only tells you that the starches have been converted. It doesn't tell you exactly what they've been converted to. IOW, it doesn't tell you how fermentable your wort is. Most beer and ale yeasts can only ferment glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, and maltotriose, and some strains aren't very good at fermenting maltotiose. Except for diastatic strains, they can't ferment dextrins (carbohydrates with more than three sugar units). Mashing at higher temperatures tends to produce more dextrins and therefore less fermentable wort.

Understood- I will give the Enzymes a shot as last effort. Would adding Enzymes 10 days in be too late?

 

[mashdar]

Not too late - you will still have lots of active yeast.

But IMO, wait for the hydrometer test.

edit: missed 1.030 result.

You can choose to let it be a little thick/sweet, or try the enzyme. I'd personally just let it be what it is and experience what a high FG normal ABV beer is like.

 

[ahags]

Not too late - you will still have lots of active yeast.

But IMO, wait for the hydrometer test.

I posted above- hydrometer came yesterday and I got a 1.03 reading even. So I’m way off FG target and diff between gravities is only .021

 

[mac_1103]

I suppose that if you had two fermenters you could try splitting the batch - add half a pound of sugar to one half and a quarter teaspoon of alpha amylase to the other half. You know, for science.

 

[ahags]

I suppose that if you had two fermenters you could try splitting the batch - add half a pound of sugar to one half and a quarter teaspoon of alpha amylase to the other half. You know, for science.

Haha I’m not opposed to finding a bucket to makeshift as a fermenter but I’ll hold off on buying another Anvil until I get going a little longer. With the Alpha Amylase won’t I likely know within 48 hours if SG drops? And if it doesn’t, then it wouldn’t be too late to still add sugar, correct?

Is 1lb per 5 gallons usually the right dosing? What is the conversion factor for 1lb to ABV or Gravity points?

 

[mac_1103]

A pound of table sugar in five gallons would add about 9 points to the gravity and about 1.2% ABV to the beer after it's fermented. But as mentioned, it is not likely to change the final gravity. So your SG would go up from 1.03 to about 1.04 and then come back down to 1.03. You can use the brewer's friend recipe calculator to confirm that. Its major virtue compared to other (possibly better) software is that it's free for you to use online right now.

 

[ahags]

A pound of table sugar in five gallons would add about 9 points to the gravity and about 1.2% ABV to the beer after it's fermented. But as mentioned, it is not likely to change the final gravity. So your SG would go up from 1.03 to about 1.04 and then come back down to 1.03. You can use the brewer's friend recipe calculator to confirm that. Its major virtue compared to other (possibly better) software is that it's free for you to use online right now.

Thank you! So really best case- I’m maybe getting this thing to a 4% hazy ipa with potentially off flavors with the table sugar added. Might go the enzyme route first and cross my fingers

 

[mac_1103]

At this point, I wouldn't be sure what kind of beer you're going to get. But it will be beer. In fact, it's already beer.

 

[ahags]

Not too late - you will still have lots of active yeast.

But IMO, wait for the hydrometer test.

edit: missed 1.030 result.

You can choose to let it be a little thick/sweet, or try the enzyme. I'd personally just let it be what it is and experience what a high FG normal ABV beer is like.

I mean- a 2.7% ish beer is barely a beer. Not sure that is worth having 50 bottles of.

 

[mac_1103]

a 2.7% ish beer is barely a beer

You do realize that some people go to great lengths to do that on purpose, right? Just generally not at 1.030 FG.

 

[ahags]

You do realize that some people go to great lengths to do that on purpose, right? Just generally not at 1.030 FG.

I didn’t, no. I don’t think I’ve ever found a commercial beer under 4% really. Besides a few advertising that way. Especially if it has the character of a hazy IPA, ideally would like to aim for higher. I just ordered some enzymes so will see if that kick starts the fermentation tomorrow. If not, will sit on it and see how it tastes at the two week mark either way. Thanks all!

 

[mashdar]

If it tastes good, I personally only care if the ABV is too high to enjoy a second pint : )

 

[mac_1103]

Not all hazy, but most under 4% ABV.

 

[Bobby_M]

Taste the beer. If you like it, bottle it and move on. At this point, you've likely opened the fermenter what, 10 times? That's 9 too many especially for a hazy. If you're not digging the flavor by now, dump it and try again.

 

[worlddivides]

I didn’t, no. I don’t think I’ve ever found a commercial beer under 4% really. Besides a few advertising that way. Especially if it has the character of a hazy IPA, ideally would like to aim for higher. I just ordered some enzymes so will see if that kick starts the fermentation tomorrow. If not, will sit on it and see how it tastes at the two week mark either way. Thanks all!

There are tons of commercial beers under 4%. The lowest I think I've found for a hazy IPA was around 3.5% ABV, but I've seen commercial IPAs at 3% ABV and 3.3% ABV. If we get to styles that are traditionally under 4%, the English style of beer called "mild" is generally under 4% alcohol. The BJCP puts the alcohol range for a mild at 2.8% to 4.5% ABV, but most of the ones I see are in between 3% and 3.6%.

https://www.bjcp.org/beer-styles/11a-mild/

Then there are also traditional sour styles like Berliner Weisse that the BJCP puts the alcohol range at 2.8% to 3.8% ABV.

https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/23/23A/berliner-weisse/

Or if you're more interested in a super famous, widely sold IPA that's under 4%, BrewDog's Dead Pony Club is 3.8% ABV.

 

[ahags]

As a quick update- 11/20 at 415pm I put a teaspoon of Amylase Enzyme powder into my 5 gallon fermenter. I did a quick test today and didn’t see any changes yet from spigot sample (didn’t open lid for hydrometer test). After researching a bit more, I am reading that Alpha Amylase won’t necessarily have much impact as it only breaks down starches into long chain sugars which still need to sometimes be broken down further for fermentation. If this is true, should I have used beta amylase enzyme? Rookie mistake probably but I bought whatever the person had linked earlier in this thread which was indeed alpha.

And yes… I realize at this point my beer is likely not even going to taste good but it’s all in the name of science and a learning experience for me!

 

[hotbeer]

It probably will have been good enough if you just accepted what you got. Or at least you'd know whether or not you initial mistakes made it a terrible beer or not. Now you won't really know whether it was going to be yuck from the start. Or if it was all the mucking around with it after the fact that made it good or bad tasting beer.

Alcohol only plays a small part in the taste and aroma of beer. You can have a enjoyable to drink beer at most any ABV level. May not be the beer you wanted it to be like, but it'd be beer.

I prefer not to muck around with beer once it's in the FV. That way I don't have the stuff I did to try and save it having to be included in the possible things that may have made it bad beer. And I can more easily fix the things I did wrong or poorly during the brewing of the future batches of beer.

It takes a while to get it all correct. Maybe even a half dozen of more brews to quit making the silly mistakes. And during that time you might change methods to one that more suits you instead of doing the methods another find easier for their circumstances.

If you ask us all how we do our mash, you'd probably get some significant differences. But we all claim to have brewed beer we like.

 

[mac_1103]

I did a quick test today and didn’t see any changes yet from spigot sample (didn’t open lid for hydrometer test).

Stop opening the lid. You should be able to get enough for a hydrometer sample from the spigot.

After researching a bit more, I am reading that Alpha Amylase won’t necessarily have much impact as it only breaks down starches into long chain sugars which still need to sometimes be broken down further for fermentation.

This is not correct. Alpha amylase breaks (1→4)-α-D-glucosidic linkages in polysaccharides containing three or more (1→4)-α-linked D-glucose units. So it converts dextrins into things like glucose, maltose and maltotriose. All of those are fermentable. It can even convert maltotriose into glucose and maltose.

edit - try to just leave it alone for at least a week.

 

[ahags]

It probably will have been good enough if you just accepted what you got. Or at least you'd know whether or not you initial mistakes made it a terrible beer or not. Now you won't really know whether it was going to be yuck from the start. Or if it was all the mucking around with it after the fact that made it good or bad tasting beer.

Alcohol only plays a small part in the taste and aroma of beer. You can have a enjoyable to drink beer at most any ABV level. May not be the beer you wanted it to be like, but it'd be beer.

I prefer not to muck around with beer once it's in the FV. That way I don't have the stuff I did to try and save it having to be included in the possible things that may have made it bad beer. And I can more easily fix the things I did wrong or poorly during the brewing of the future batches of beer.

It takes a while to get it all correct. Maybe even a half dozen of more brews to quit making the silly mistakes. And during that time you might change methods to one that more suits you instead of doing the methods another find easier for their circumstances.

If you ask us all how we do our mash, you'd probably get some significant differences. But we all claim to have brewed beer we like.

Yea- I did taste the beer a few days ago at the one week mark and it wasn’t half bad! I wouldn’t say it was a home run but bit of a watered down hazy ipa. I didn’t feel super confident on taste profile to bottle it up at 2.7% ABV and for me, I do prefer a bit of a stronger ABV. To each their own though.

 

[redrocker652002]

I think the advice given about just leaving it be and going with what you have is solid. Now, believe me, and these guys can attest, I am the least patient guy in the world. When I first started if my beers missed the OG and FG numbers by even two or three points I was pissed. The last year or so I have decided that I am not going to sweat that. If it is only 2.7% then so be it. Drink it and see what happens. You can always add a bit more of this or that to up the percentage if you want, but you will never know what your baseline is until you just leave it be and let it do it's thing. I have left my beers in the plastic bucket fermenters for upwards of three weeks before I dry hopped and schedule lined up so I could keg it. Did it hurt the beer? Hell if I know. Was the beer good? Was to me and my neighbor who is my taste tester. So, I think you are worrying way too much about the numbers and all the stuff that you cannot change at this point anyway. Let it ride for a week or so, bottle it, let it ride another week or two then put one in the fridge and see what you got. Hell, it could be the next big thing, that's how the guys at the craft breweries out here got started. Just my opinion, and take it for what it is worth as I am no pro. Enjoy.

 

[ahags]

Yup- totally get that. I am also not a super patience person so this hobby will be quite the challenge. I see it more as, if I’m going to grab a beer from the fridge and I have a 2.7% or a 5% l, I’ll probably stick with the 5% until I get the home brew a bit better. And again, I appreciate everyone’s advice here. Ultimately, the reason I am asking all these questions on enzymes etc is because I want to see the process of potentially “fixing” a stuck fermentation. I ruled out it being yeast issue as I pitched a second and it didn’t change, I now am seeing some slight bubble activity at a bubble every 15 second pace in the airlock which is giving me a little hope that the enzyme is doing something. Again, I don’t need the first to be perfect and I don’t necessarily want my baseline to be based off an incorrect process, high mash temp etc. all just a learning process for me right now and tbh- going through the issues I have vs letting it just sit has probably taught me more than I ever could have imagined vs if I had just drank it in 4 weeks and not asked these questions.

 

[redrocker652002]

Yup- totally get that. I am also not a super patience person so this hobby will be quite the challenge. I see it more as, if I’m going to grab a beer from the fridge and I have a 2.7% or a 5% l, I’ll probably stick with the 5% until I get the home brew a bit better. And again, I appreciate everyone’s advice here. Ultimately, the reason I am asking all these questions on enzymes etc is because I want to see the process of potentially “fixing” a stuck fermentation. I ruled out it being yeast issue as I pitched a second and it didn’t change, I now am seeing some slight bubble activity at a bubble every 15 second pace in the airlock which is giving me a little hope that the enzyme is doing something. Again, I don’t need the first to be perfect and I don’t necessarily want my baseline to be based off an incorrect process, high mash temp etc. all just a learning process for me right now and tbh- going through the issues I have vs letting it just sit has probably taught me more than I ever could have imagined vs if I had just drank it in 4 weeks and not asked these questions.

I completely understand. Rock On!!!!!

 

[redrocker652002]

Ooop, wrong thread. LOL

 

[worlddivides]

I think the advice given about just leaving it be and going with what you have is solid. Now, believe me, and these guys can attest, I am the least patient guy in the world. When I first started if my beers missed the OG and FG numbers by even two or three points I was pissed. The last year or so I have decided that I am not going to sweat that. If it is only 2.7% then so be it. Drink it and see what happens. You can always add a bit more of this or that to up the percentage if you want, but you will never know what your baseline is until you just leave it be and let it do it's thing. I have left my beers in the plastic bucket fermenters for upwards of three weeks before I dry hopped and schedule lined up so I could keg it. Did it hurt the beer? Hell if I know. Was the beer good? Was to me and my neighbor who is my taste tester. So, I think you are worrying way too much about the numbers and all the stuff that you cannot change at this point anyway. Let it ride for a week or so, bottle it, let it ride another week or two then put one in the fridge and see what you got. Hell, it could be the next big thing, that's how the guys at the craft breweries out here got started. Just my opinion, and take it for what it is worth as I am no pro. Enjoy.

For sure. I've hit my OG and FG perfectly on the numbers just as many times as I've missed them, but they've both produced delicious beers. And while sure, you're definitely going to be able to tell a difference between a 2.7% and a 6% ABV beer, studies have shown that people can't tell a difference in 1% ABV. Say, you drink a 5% and a 6% beer, almost no one will be able to tell which is stronger. It's one of the many reasons why I don't really care if my numbers are off a bit. I often get higher OGs than I expect but also higher FGs than I expect, but my most recent beer had an OG 3 points higher than I expected and an FG 4 points lower than I expected, resulting in a 6% instead of a 5.4% beer. I doubt it will taste noticeably different, though.

 

[mac_1103]

I often get higher OGs than I expect but also higher FGs than I expect, but my most recent beer had an OG 3 points higher than I expected and an FG 4 points lower than I expected, resulting in a 6% instead of a 5.4% beer. I doubt it will taste noticeably different, though.

So do I and I never sweat that kind of stuff. RDWHAHB. But this isn't that - OG was 20 points low and FG was 20 points high (when you account for the OG being low). Yes, it's beer, but it's not going to be anything at all like the intended beer. Not because of the low ABV but because of the high FG. OTOH, it was starting to bubble again yesterday so there's that.

 

[ahags]

Quick update: Still bubbling! I checked a gravity reading with my refractometer as a baseline before doing a hydrometer in a day or so. SG dropped from 1.036 to 1.03!!! And when adjusted to a hydrometer, it’s well on its way. Thanks for all the help and advice. It felt like Christmas this morning to see science doing its thing and kickstarting this fermentation again. It does likely confirm the theory that I shouldn’t strike my water that high again, as the cold grain tun and room temp grain was still not enough to justify the 172.9 starting strike. I’ll try for around 160 next time and immediately lower the AIO temp to 153-155

 

[mac_1103]

I checked a gravity reading with my refractometer as a baseline before doing a hydrometer in a day or so.

Please just leave it alone. At least until it stops bubbling.

I’ll try for around 160 next time and immediately lower the AIO temp to 153-155

Mash calculator.

 

[ahags]

Please just leave it alone. At least until it stops bubbling.

Mash calculator.

That’s the plan! Initial readings were to just see if it actually had started doing something. Didn’t have to open the lid as I have a spigot.

 

[Graham H]

Now the downside—you will find this to be the best beer you ever tasted, but will have no way of knowing what made it so good nor how to repeat it.