Stainless Steel Mash Tun Questions

[springinloose1]

Hi all!
I'm looking to upgrade the good old reliable 10 gallon Home Depot plastic cooler to a stainless steel mash tun. I've got about 50 batches in and the plastic inside is pretty warped, plus I think I just want something new and shiny. My question is: What are your experiences with stainless insulated designs vs. uninsulated and the pro's and con's? I'm reading rave reviews on the insulated designs doing a great job holding temps but you can't apply heat to them. Which brings me to the uninsulated designs. I'd like to be able to control temps but I'm used to the cooler and being able nail temps with it isn't an issue. Obviously with the cooler I can't mash out and if for some reason I'm short on temps it'd be nice to fire up the burner and rock it up a few degrees here and there. Plus, I super like the idea of being able to unlock both Beta and Alpha by starting the mash in the mid to high 140's, go up to mash temp and hold, then up to mash out. So would you recommend going with what I know, figuring out the heat loss, adjust temps like I've been doing and go insulated, or would you recommend uninsulated and control temps with heat? Propane sucks and I haven't hooked up my natural gas line in the garage for brewing yet but I installed a heater I can splice into. Figured I'd toss that info in there as well.

Cheers!
Adam D.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Grab a sanke keg on craigslist for $25 to $50. Cut the top off with an angle grinder or sawzall. They are solid and thick 304 stainless steel.

Unless you are in Alaska (or some other stupidly cold windy place), don't worry about insulating it.

Done.

 

[Lefou]

I do business on a stovetop. The Igloo wasn't cutting it for step mashing so I bought an Anvil kettle. It came standard with ball valve, washers, and an analog thermometer that sits near the 3 gallon mark. Tri-clad heavy bottom will give decent thermal mass for even heating. It does double or triple duty depending on my brew as a boil kettle, mash tun, or HLT on the side. Can't say enough good things about it.

 

[Hammy71]

I use a stainless keg. Made a RIMS system from this site. No insulation needed.

 

[pvpeacock]

I have an SS Brewtech insulated mash tun. I have never needed to use heat to keep my mash temperatures stable for an hour or more.
Pros: well insulated, no concerns about plastic getting in your wort, no warping, easy cleaning, looks cool and NO DEADSPACE UNDER THE FALSE BOTTOM

Cons: price, weight

 

[acidrain]

Grab a sanke keg on craigslist for $25 to $50. Cut the top off with an angle grinder or sawzall. They are solid and thick 304 stainless steel.

Unless you are in Alaska (or some other stupidly cold windy place), don't worry about insulating it.

Done.

Says the guy that lives in California.

It is possible to add whatever thickness of insulation you want to a SS vessel and still use heat... Rockwool is flame proof, and for the most part, waterproof.
I use 1" and then wrapped that with a thin layer of SS sheet metal for looks more than anything.
Now I'm looking at 1 or 2 F drop over an hour compared to 5 or 6 F previously.

I live in Seattle and brew year round.

 

[LarMoeCur]

My numbers are in line with Acidrain. My old cooler mash tun lost about 1 degree an hour. My stainless kettle without heating losses about 5-10 degrees an hour depending on the ambient temperature. You can insulate with just about anything. I've seen everything from sleeping bags to custom built spray foam molds.

 

[McKnuckle]

A cooler that loses 1-2 degrees per hour, and allows step mashing via infusion, is a tried and true K.I.S.S. principle mash tun solution.

People go to great lengths and spend a lot of money to heat, recirculate, insulate, and maintain temps in steel mash tuns. To me it's a great example of severely diminishing returns. I realize they look rad and they mimic professional equipment to some degree. Doesn't mean they make better beer, though, and the cost is arguably better spent on fermentation or serving apparatus.

My experience with heated, insulated, recirculated stainless mash tuns added time and aggravation to my brew day, and when something failed the mash could be like a runaway train. I finally went back to my cooler and am very happy with the functional, predictable, non-fussy approach it offers.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just offering a contrary opinion because... it's HBT.

 

[Lefou]

I still have my 10 gallon Igloo on the side, just in case. Right now the plan is doing session ales, decoction, and step mashing on the stove. If I decide to do a higher gravity infusion or two-step mash, the false bottom can be swapped from kettle to cooler. That was intentional as the false bottom was originally bought for the cooler.
I may modify the cooler when time permits by drilling a hole and mounting a thermometer well, making temperature checks a bit more flexible. I have a Thermo-Pen style digital thermometer but I would like a mounted device to track possible temperature changes deeper in the mash.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I see a lot of people that wrap SS kegs with that pillowy shiny puffy insulation stuff from home depot. I'm not sure if it takes it down to the 1-2 degrees per hour. Maybe someone can chime in on that.

 

[d_flyer]

I have a Chapman 15 gallon mash tun. I like it a lot. I lose about 2 degrees over an hour. I just do infusion mashes, if I did step mashes it is probably overkill.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I see a lot of people that wrap SS kegs with that pillowy shiny puffy insulation stuff from home depot. I'm not sure if it takes it down to the 1-2 degrees per hour. Maybe someone can chime in on that.

I've got 4 layers on the outside of my keg. I can tell you that the open head space in the keg is more important than the insulation on the sides. If I mash with the keg half full it drops at 2x the rate as if it's full to the top.

Full to the top drops ~1-2f/hour when it's in the 60-70's outside.

 

[acidrain]

A cooler that loses 1-2 degrees per hour, and allows step mashing via infusion, is a tried and true K.I.S.S. principle mash tun solution.

People go to great lengths and spend a lot of money to heat, recirculate, insulate, and maintain temps in steel mash tuns. To me it's a great example of severely diminishing returns. I realize they look rad and they mimic professional equipment to some degree. Doesn't mean they make better beer, though, and the cost is arguably better spent on fermentation or serving apparatus.

My experience with heated, insulated, recirculated stainless mash tuns added time and aggravation to my brew day, and when something failed the mash could be like a runaway train. I finally went back to my cooler and am very happy with the functional, predictable, non-fussy approach it offers.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just offering a contrary opinion because... it's HBT.

I completely agree with this... I just can't get past the warped plastic and occasional plastic smell I get.
Besides, I like shiny things.
BTW, I'm a HERMS guy too. I also like my brewery to look like a science experiment.

 

[McKnuckle]

I wonder if there would be a market for a purpose-built mash tun designed like an insulated plastic cooler, but with stainless steel lining the interior, an integrated false bottom, ball valve, mash cap, and thermometer port?

 

[iijakii]

I wonder if there would be a market for a purpose-built mash tun designed like an insulated plastic cooler, but with stainless steel lining the interior, an integrated false bottom, ball valve, mash cap, and thermometer port?

Look at the SS infussion and chapman thermobarrel.

 

[BarrelAgedForrest]

What everyone is skipping over is the lack of volume in all of our handy 10gal orange home depot mash tuns. I'm to the point where I want to start doing larger batches and currently my tun is my bottle neck...

 

[springinloose1]

First - thanks everyone for all your feedback and contribution. I really appreciate it.

I'd like to hear more from brewers using uninsulated tuns and their thoughts. Anybody using a brewing sculpture with burners on all 3 vessels? When I upgrade, that'll probably be it for many years, if not forever, so I don't want to misstep. It might just be me, but I'm thinking there is more options going uninsulated and using heat but like I said in my original post that I, like many of you, have figured out my system and what the heat losses are with the cooler so the insulated designs are attractive from a user standpoint. But the pursuit of better beer has me thinking otherwise. The biggest reason I'm asking is does unlocking beta and alpha amylase by starting mash temps low and slowly build heat to holding temps and then mash out, make a noticeable difference in the finished beer? I don't know, but from some of the research I've read it's utilizing all the different sugar molecules the grain has to offer. So again, does that produce better beer or no? Because like another brewer posted, dealing with monitoring heat is definitely going to put a dampen on brew day vs. set the temp, mash in, take a shower, load the dishwasher, drink a homebrew, and lauter. Ugh, decisions decisions...

I've looked at both the SS Brew Tech and Chapman mash tuns so it's great you guys have good experiences with them.

 

[Lefou]

In my opinion, the term "better beer" can be subjective. Your process, method, water, grain, and yeast will always contribute. Having the best equipment you can afford will always help and if I could get a 100% conversion and efficiency every time, boy, that would be too cool, too.
The big reason I chose steel over plastic had to do with step mashing because I tend to use malts that are sometimes partially modified. I'll sometimes decoct and add amylase to the mash at some point - but that is totally dependent on style.
Did my beer improve by using an uninsulated steel kettle as a mash tun?
I would say yes. Did I get the best beer possible or a perfect beer?
I will let you know when it happens.

 

[thekraken]

I've got 4 layers on the outside of my keg. I can tell you that the open head space in the keg is more important than the insulation on the sides. If I mash with the keg half full it drops at 2x the rate as if it's full to the top.

Full to the top drops ~1-2f/hour when it's in the 60-70's outside.

I wonder if it wouldn't help your small batches to use a mash cap inside the tun? With a full keg you also have much more thermal mass in the first place so it would lose heat more slowly with or without more headspace.

 

[Lefou]

Case in point.
I made a hoppy American blonde hoppy ale with WLP001. It was the first beer made doing a step mash in my new boil kettle. The mash was held between 145F-152F and didn't vary more than 2-3 degrees for the hour and fifteen minutes of mash time.
OG was 1.046 and FG ended up at 1.004 at bottling time. After carbing, it was, in my opinion, the best. A couple months of aging later, it was even better and the clarity and taste rivaled some of the better store-bought lagers I've had. A bit drier than the German Festbiers I love, but still pretty good.

 

[logdrum]

About 6 months ago I went through the same "upgrade-itis" I settled on a 10 gallon Spike mash tun & RIMS set up (RIMS Rocket, Electric Brewing components). Absolutely worth every penny! I do wrap the tun in a sleeping bag & may eventually make a Reflectix jacket (although, I've read the sleeping bag has better thermal retention).

 

[btcost]

I built an all gravity system using 15.5gal kegs with a burner under each.

I was happy with this setup for years. And I just upgraded to a pump. And I love my system even more!

Now instead of constantly stirring my mash with the burner lit (when raising to mash out temp for example). I just turn on the pump and recirculate.

I like the option of direct heating the mash tun. It has also saved my brew day more then once. Missed temps etc.

And yes I built a “jacket” out of duct work insulation. It helps keep the mash temp where I want it. But it’s only “needed” when I brew in the winter. I’m in New England.

 

[Staticsouls]

First - thanks everyone for all your feedback and contribution. I really appreciate it.

I'd like to hear more from brewers using uninsulated tuns and their thoughts. Anybody using a brewing sculpture with burners on all 3 vessels? When I upgrade, that'll probably be it for many years, if not forever, so I don't want to misstep. It might just be me, but I'm thinking there is more options going uninsulated and using heat but like I said in my original post that I, like many of you, have figured out my system and what the heat losses are with the cooler so the insulated designs are attractive from a user standpoint. But the pursuit of better beer has me thinking otherwise. The biggest reason I'm asking is does unlocking beta and alpha amylase by starting mash temps low and slowly build heat to holding temps and then mash out, make a noticeable difference in the finished beer? I don't know, but from some of the research I've read it's utilizing all the different sugar molecules the grain has to offer. So again, does that produce better beer or no? Because like another brewer posted, dealing with monitoring heat is definitely going to put a dampen on brew day vs. set the temp, mash in, take a shower, load the dishwasher, drink a homebrew, and lauter. Ugh, decisions decisions...

I've looked at both the SS Brew Tech and Chapman mash tuns so it's great you guys have good experiences with them.

If you have a decent immersion chiller you could always throw it in your hlt while you are heating your sparge water and use it like a herms coil to help maintain temps in an uninsulated ss mlt. The advantage to this is that you should be able to step or at least slowly increase temps from lower to higher. I kinda thought the same way I think you are thinking, and went with three kegs from the start. I used them as simple gravity feed, or direct fire, but after watching some one double duty their IC for herms and chilling it changed everything for me. I eventually installed a herms coil and upgraded to a counter flow chiller. I use a wire rack from HD for my sculpture, and have them on three tiers. I have pumps, but use gravity for sparging as I like gravity control for sparge over pumps and valves. I use my pumps for recirculation, and chilling. I made my mlt bottom drain so it can drain right through the rack, and when I chill the waste water goes into my hlt so I can use it, via gravity, to rinse all other equipment.