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Ss Brewtech eBrewing

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Trevor Mack

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Yeah thinking I only need a bag and pulley system pumps and stuff are definitely optional add-ons I'll grab later on deeper in the rabbit hole.

Now just to figure out how to rig up my existing dryer 240v 30A outlet for the eKettle's power supply L6-30... As I'm in an apartment for at least another year before really being free to change and setup things.
 

flubbss

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Anyone make any changes to their pots? Whirlpool arm/port? Added spray nozzle to their lid? Added something to their extra tri clamp port?

Thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these and was wondering what, if any, upgrades work best for everyone. I’m torn between buying the 10gallon eBrewing setup or a High Gravity system. Since more time has passed, how is everyone liking their Brewtech eBrewing system?
 

SWK

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Anyone make any changes to their pots? Whirlpool arm/port? Added spray nozzle to their lid? Added something to their extra tri clamp port?

Thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these and was wondering what, if any, upgrades work best for everyone. I’m torn between buying the 10gallon eBrewing setup or a High Gravity system. Since more time has passed, how is everyone liking their Brewtech eBrewing system?
I would wait SS Brewtech is coming out with their single vessel eBIAB anytime now. Check it out in the link below

https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/the-workshop
 

RockyMtnGT

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I would wait SS Brewtech is coming out with their single vessel eBIAB anytime now. Check it out in the link below

https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/the-workshop
I second this. Was looking at the Colorado Brewing Systems single vessel until I saw the new SS Brewtech SVBS. Now I am in a holding pattern. The current eBIAB looks sweet, so imagine what the SVBS is going to look like. #patientlywaiting
 
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BrewGinner

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I've had my 1v for awhile now.... Need to actually brew on it already. !
@NewJersey have you had a chance to brew using this yet? Thoughts? I really like this setup, and getting ready to pull the trigger, but have to get a few things set up in the basement first. What can you tell me about the cord length? It needs both a 220v and 110v outlet correct?
 

Bent-Brewer

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It definitely needs access to 220V and 120V outlets. The element runs off the 220V while the accessory plugs are 120V. The general consensus I got from the Facebook user group was that the built in cables are pretty short (I'd like to get an actual measurement though).

I reached out to Ss regarding their single vessel system and got what was pretty much reflected on their workshop page- they are testing prototypes and about to go into production with the goal of a late-spring release.
 

NewJersey

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the cords are about a foot. maybe a couple inches longer. the panel must be close to wherever you mount the outlet. they sell a 6ft. extension cord set separatley.
still haven't brewed on it...
 

BrewGinner

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Thanks for the information guys. Still don’t get why it was designed the way it was requiring both outlets. Better to know now then after the purchase.
 

Lax coach

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Thanks for the information guys. Still don’t get why it was designed the way it was requiring both outlets. Better to know now then after the purchase.
Rather pedestrian reason, actually. The 240V plug is a 3-wire, that needs to be connected to a GFCI-protected outlet. That means it has no neutral, and therefore can't create the 120V needed to run a pump.

Which leads directly to the question of why didn't they just use a 4-prong plug, so a neutral is available to support 120V loads? Because again, they want it plugged into a GFCI-protected outlet. And when the 120V pump runs, the GFCI will "see" current leaving one hot and NOT returning via the other hot. Since this condition potentially represents flash fried humans, it will trip.

By having separate dedicated 120V and 240V circuits, both can be fully GFCI-protected.
 

BrewGinner

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Since this condition potentially represents flash fried humans, it will trip.

By having separate dedicated 120V and 240V circuits, both can be fully GFCI-protected.
And this is exactly why I don’t mess with electricity. Thanks for the response!
 

Spartan1979

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Rather pedestrian reason, actually. The 240V plug is a 3-wire, that needs to be connected to a GFCI-protected outlet. That means it has no neutral, and therefore can't create the 120V needed to run a pump.

Which leads directly to the question of why didn't they just use a 4-prong plug, so a neutral is available to support 120V loads? Because again, they want it plugged into a GFCI-protected outlet. And when the 120V pump runs, the GFCI will "see" current leaving one hot and NOT returning via the other hot. Since this condition potentially represents flash fried humans, it will trip.

By having separate dedicated 120V and 240V circuits, both can be fully GFCI-protected.
Last week I was told this: (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/question-about-gfci.663546/#post-8545141)

Ok, this is going to take a bit of an explanation of how AC current works is a split-phase setup like US homes have. If you live somewhere other than the US, then it might be different. You need to understand that AC current cycles between +120V and -120V 60 times per second.

AC service to your house is set up with two 120V supplies (the black and red wires). These two supplies are 180 degrees out of phase from each other. This means that when the black supply is at +120V, the red is at -120V. When you measure the voltage difference between these two, you get 240V (+120V -(-120V)). For either the black or the red wire, if you measure the voltage from "hot" (red or black) to neutral (white), you get 120V no matter which one of the "hot" wires you chose, because the neutral is always at zero potential.

When you only have a 240V heating element wired up to the red and black wires, all the current is flowing through those two wires, and nothing goes through the neutral (white) wire or ground (green or bare copper).

When you have a 120V load like a pump wired up between the black and white wires, you get current flowing through the black and white wires.

Let's throw some numbers into this for clarity. Assume one 240V 5500W heating element and one 120V pump:

The heating element is 5500W at 240V; that's 22.9 amps (P=V*I) flowing from black to red
Let's assume the 120V pump is pulling 2 amps from black to white.

That means the black wire is carrying 22.9 + 2 = 24.9 amps
The red wire is carrying 22.9 amps
The white wire is carrying 2 amps

Now, the GFCI breaker is using a current sensing ring that has all three (black, red, and white) wires inside it. The total current going in (24.9 amps in the black wire) exactly equals the current going out (22.9 amps in red + 2 amps in white), so there is NO imbalance across the whole circuit.

If you have a ground fault on the black wire for example, then some of that current going out through the black wire is not coming back through the red and white wires; it's flowing through the ground wire (and potentially through YOU on the way...). Since it's going through the ground, it's NOT coming back through either the red or white wires. The current sensing ring only measures through the black, red, and white wires. Now the current going in doesn't match the current going out. That IS an imbalance and will trip the GFCI.

I hope that helps. This stuff can be fairly tricky to understand when you are working with a split phase system. Here's a good reference:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power Figure 1 shows how US household service is set up.


It would seem that many people are running 120v circuits off one leg and and not tripping the GFCI.
 

Lax coach

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Last week I was told this: (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/question-about-gfci.663546/#post-8545141)

It would seem that many people are running 120v circuits off one leg and and not tripping the GFCI.
This is technically possible, for specific combinations of breakers and wiring. IF your GFCI breaker is wired such that you have a home run of the neutral directly from the breaker to the outlet along with the hots, then yes, the GFCI can protect both 240v and 120v loads on that circuit without falsely tripping. So if you were building your own setup and could ensure that everything was set up to allow it, then yes, you could make this configuration work.

But that's a lot of assumptions for an equipment manufacturer to make on behalf of their customer base, especially with the number of circuits that would potentially just be converted dryer/oven circuits. These would have the neutral connected to the bus bar in the panel, and not to the breaker as required for the GFCI to properly detect 120v current flow. Additionally, if you do wind up in a situation where you have a legitimate ground fault, you now effectively have three circuits (120v red, 120v black, 240v) to troubleshoot instead of one, and ground faults are not the easiest thing to track down in the first place.

So yes, technically SS could have released their controller as a 4-wire and allowed a 120v pump to run off of it. But I think they would have taken a lot more calls from customers wanting to know why their breaker kept tripping, and made a business decision to avoid that possibility. My Brew-boss controller is the same way. They get around the problem by using a 24v DC pump, which has a multi-voltage autoswitching power supply. The controller has two 240v outlets on the front for the pump and the tablet that runs the application.
 

DarkNoonBrewer

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How long are the cables on the controler? Did you have to put the plug right next to the thing? What about the kettle? Does the system come with extension cables?
 

Bent-Brewer

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According to the facebook usergroup, the cables are about 1 foot long. It does not come with extension cords- I was told they were available on their site but could not find them listed.
 

Waunabeer

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I just installed the outlet above the table where the kettle will sit. Then ran a normal extension cord to the outlet below the table for the 120v accessories. If you have existing 230v outlets that are further away, then yes, you will need an extension cord.

Really like the system compared to my 3v system. Simplistic and a much smaller footprint.
 

NewJersey

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Finally brewed a beer on this past Wednesday. Went ok. The 1V was overshooting the set temp during mash. (As in element was still powered on as temp exceeded set temp. This didn't happen the entire time tho which is odd.)
I had to stir more often than anticipated so temp stratification is a bigger issue than I thought it was gonna be. I'm considering getting the SS mash recirculation manifold and using a pump to recirc during the mash. I don't know if I want to cut a hole in the lid and add some kind of fitting or just let the lid be cracked and have a hose go in that way. I just now even considered a hole in the lid just small enough to pull some hose through but tight enough to not let heat escape.
The speed of the element blew my Blichmann burner on ng outta the water btw. Stupid fast.
I had purchased a Spike tri clamp whirlpool to use, but figured out they shipped me the wrong one the morning of brew day. New one already otw, but no whirlpool. I have two riptides I had planned to use to whirlpool and one to run ice water through my immersion chiller. I ended up with a pumpless old school biab day riddled with screwups. Still glad to be back at it and identify what I want to do going forward and the beer was close to hitting target OG and is happily fermenting away right now.
First biab for me and first naturally carbing with spunding!
 

augiedoggy

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Finally brewed a beer on this past Wednesday. Went ok. The 1V was overshooting the set temp during mash. (As in element was still powered on as temp exceeded set temp. This didn't happen the entire time tho which is odd.)
I had to stir more often than anticipated so temp stratification is a bigger issue than I thought it was gonna be. I'm considering getting the SS mash recirculation manifold and using a pump to recirc during the mash. I don't know if I want to cut a hole in the lid and add some kind of fitting or just let the lid be cracked and have a hose go in that way. I just now even considered a hole in the lid just small enough to pull some hose through but tight enough to not let heat escape.
The speed of the element blew my Blichmann burner on ng outta the water btw. Stupid fast.
I had purchased a Spike tri clamp whirlpool to use, but figured out they shipped me the wrong one the morning of brew day. New one already otw, but no whirlpool. I have two riptides I had planned to use to whirlpool and one to run ice water through my immersion chiller. I ended up with a pumpless old school biab day riddled with screwups. Still glad to be back at it and identify what I want to do going forward and the beer was close to hitting target OG and is happily fermenting away right now.
First biab for me and first naturally carbing with spunding!
Did you perform an autotune at all on your pid? Ideally the best to to do it is while simulating a real load with say a used bag of grain..
 

NewJersey

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Did you perform an autotune at all on your pid? Ideally the best to to do it is while simulating a real load with say a used bag of grain..
No, I was gonna do it with water today. Will that work? There are instructions on an SS fb usergroup, but they're rough. There's an autotune 1 and 2, but the guy doesn't know which he did.
I'm gonna assume it's 1 and do it with water.
 

augiedoggy

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No, I was gonna do it with water today. Will that work? There are instructions on an SS fb usergroup, but they're rough. There's an autotune 1 and 2, but the guy doesn't know which he did.
I'm gonna assume it's 1 and do it with water.
yes, without tuning the pid to your application you will get overshoot. if you tune with just water just keep in mind its then tuned to work with just water and no grain.. when you have grain in the mix it will likely still work much better than it does now, but the flow rate and thermal load will be totally different meaning it wont be tunes for your application.
 

NewJersey

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yes, without tuning the pid to your application you will get overshoot. if you tune with just water just keep in mind its then tuned to work with just water and no grain.. when you have grain in the mix it will likely still work much better than it does now, but the flow rate and thermal load will be totally different meaning it wont be tunes for your application.
Enlighten me as to the why here.
The only thing it gets info from is the temp probe which is immersed in water. I mean grain too, but how could it possibly know that? It only reads temps.
maybe I'll do it with water and then do it again at the end of mashing next brew?
 

McKnuckle

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I imagine that the difference is related to the density of wort/mash vs. plain water. It should theoretically take more time to heat an equivalent volume of mash, which would affect the PID’s settings.
 

augiedoggy

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Enlighten me as to the why here.
The only thing it gets info from is the temp probe which is immersed in water. I mean grain too, but how could it possibly know that? It only reads temps.
maybe I'll do it with water and then do it again at the end of mashing next brew?
the pid has to "learn" the correct algorithm and that done by setting up the task at hand and performing the autotune where it adusts and "programs" itself to know preemptively when to shut off and turn on the element and at which levels to climb to and maintain temps without overshooting the amount of power and time it takes for the liquid to climb to temp completely depends on the amount of water and the thermal load (IE grains drawing temps from that water) so all these conditions ideally should be the same as in a real application run when tuning... This is the difference between PID tech and hysteresis like a home thermostat uses. you can research it and find some manual pid settings you can use which will work ok without tuning for this application but as you have found the generic out of the box settings are too far out of the ballpark for what you need currently.
 

NewJersey

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I did it with water today and it's now working perfectly. With just water anyways.
I'm gonna take your advice and tune it again with spent grain and water after my next brew.
 

BrewGinner

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I did it with water today and it's now working perfectly. With just water anyways.
I'm gonna take your advice and tune it again with spent grain and water after my next brew.
What exactly did you do @NewJersey? I've looked at the post on the FaceBook user group, but the instructions seems somewhat vague.
 

Erik Rodriguez

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I used to brew with gas, but found it difficult to maintain temperature with any accuracy, which resulted in significant variance in my brews. So, I did a lot of looking around at other systems. Finally decided that the "K-Rims" system Blichmann makes (Breweasy) was excellent for my needs. Fairly compact space and lots of volume. Then, looking at my current equipment, I decided that with minimal investment, some creativity, cutting holes, and a bit of luck, I could convert my equipment to mimic a breweasy at a fraction of the cost.


It took me about a year of gathering parts, selecting a controller, building the controller, so on, so forth, dragging my heels and whatever, but eventually got it built. All connections are now quick disconnects. Went through several iterations of leak testing and fixing, but finally did my first brew on it a week ago.


Worked beautifully! Maintained temp within a degree. OG ended up higher than expected, which means I need to fine tune my profile in BeerSmith.


Anyway, here is a pic of it in process (Ignore the other random crap). Not much to see really. But I decided to have the flow go into the hops hopper just to reduce spash. It was a small 5gal test batch of Irish Red. The system can brew 10 gallons with plenty of spare room.


10 gal and 18 gal from Bayou Classic (Amazon)

Quick connects, hopper, tubing, and pretty much everything else from Amazon. Some from NorthernBrewer.

Control panel is a 30a BIAB from EBrewSupply.


Brew.JPG
Control.JPG
 

BrewGinner

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You do it too?
Haven’t yet but I’m going to. If I can’t get to it this week, I’ll give it a go this weekend.

One other question for you. Did you set your mash temp as normal when you did the water test, and then run the auto tune? Do you need to wait until you hit the set temp, or can you do it at any point during the heating cycle?
 

NewJersey

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Haven’t yet but I’m going to. If I can’t get to it this week, I’ll give it a go this weekend.

One other question for you. Did you set your mash temp as normal when you did the water test, and then run the auto tune? Do you need to wait until you hit the set temp, or can you do it at any point during the heating cycle?
I had set my temp at 149 in auto more before running the autotune
 

Maniacmcgoo

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Got carried away and set it up too fast to get many photos. I did a quick clean and measured boil off which looks to be 2 gal hr when just set to automatic. The RIMS is the star of the show so far though. It kept the mash at between 150 and 152 steadily.

The mess around the brew station will get lugged away next week with the recycling.
 

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