SS autosiphon... any interest??

[orangehero]

I use a SS cane and CO2 to push beer around. Anyway I was trying to help this project by linking the other thread, since no one had bothered to search for it. Good luck with your infections and all, don't let it keep you up tossing and turning though!

 

[emjay]

I use a SS cane and CO2 to push beer around. Anyway I was trying to help this project by linking the other thread, since no one had bothered to search for it. Good luck with your infections and all, don't let it keep you up tossing and turning though!

That's nice, but not everyone kegs. I'm not saying the link wasn't welcome or appreciated, but did it really need to be followed by a statement as obvious and as asinine as "I think likely the cost to make a SS autosiphon could get you several plastic ones instead"? No shít.

 

[Revvy]

Emjay, you talk about sanitization and sours but I don't think even an ss would necessary be 100% safe in that regard. There's going still be at least on little silicone gasket or a valve of some sort that would not be made of ss, and there would be a gap that could be a bacteria risk.

To me it's value would be in being able to rack while the beer's still hot. You could rack boiling hot if you wanted, and nearly gaurentee wort sterility.

Of course racking boiling or near boiling would ensure that the ss autosiphon would indeed be sterile.

 

[BBBF]

Emjay, you talk about sanitization and sours but I don't think even an ss would necessary be 100% safe in that regard. There's going still be at least on little silicone gasket or a valve of some sort that would not be made of ss, and there would be a gap that could be a bacteria risk. To me it's value would be in being able to rack while the beer's still hot. You could rack boiling hot if you wanted, and nearly gaurentee wort sterility

If it is all SS and silicon, you can put it in your oven and kill the bacteria. I would like to try racking boiling wort into my pyrex carboy, sitting in a bucket of ice water.

Well I just ripped mine in half wrestling my siphon tubing off, so I'd definitely be interested in one if it wasn't absurdly priced.

I did the same over the weekend, so I'd be interested in a SS model. As for price, I need to replace the plastic model every year or two, so I would be willing to pay 2-3 times the price for one that would last.

 

[emjay]

Emjay, you talk about sanitization and sours but I don't think even an ss would necessary be 100% safe in that regard. There's going still be at least on little silicone gasket or a valve of some sort that would not be made of ss, and there would be a gap that could be a bacteria risk.

To me it's value would be in being able to rack while the beer's still hot. You could rack boiling hot if you wanted, and nearly gaurentee wort sterility.

Of course racking boiling or near boiling would ensure that the ss autosiphon would indeed be sterile.

You're right, I think I even said it's not 100% guaranteed, but it's a heck of a lot better than plastic, and can even be boiled.

 

[weirdboy]

I thought I would re-post this message since it was lost on the bottom of the last page:

Not according to the US patent office. There is a similar patent from 1977 (expired), but nothing for that design. This has already been discussed in the threads Revvy linked above.

That's because the company that designed the autosiphon is a Canadian company. The patents are registered in Canada, and the US and Canada share IP rights across the border thanks to NAFTA, among other agreements.

They print the respective patent numbers on the package, even. Or, at least they used to when I got mine.


That's not to say that you cannot make and sell something similar. But I would at least try to make sure that you aren't going to get sued out of existence before deciding to start a business. I mean you have to wonder why nobody else makes a similar product already when it would take all of a day to line up a Chinese manufacturer to make a copycat.

 

[Golddiggie]

I do plan to have everything in the autosiphon made to easily withstand boiling temps, and above. So you would be able to sterilize it via boiling, baking, or autoclave (if you have one)...

I'm working on the mechanical aspects of the valve, as well as how to ensure the siphon gets started easily.

After reading that threads have been started (didn't come up in my search though :/) it's become a challenge to me. To the point where I simply MUST get at least a working prototype made. Simply put, I'm not going to accept failure.

Just saw the thread links from Revvy... Actually that helped me to do the first (rough) design of the business end of the main tube. I was really over-thinking it I think. Should be easy/cheap to make too. For the cane, it's just a matter of making the bottom end create a good seal to the inner wall of the other tube.

Not sure what pricing will be to make this, but I can't imagine too much since I've just really simplified the entire design. Basically, the main tube will be two fitted parts that will be easily cleaned. The racking cane will just need a slight modification to hold the seal to the main tube. Just need to get it drawn up so that I can get some prototypes made and go from there.

 

[LizardBrew83]

Yes... Totally interested. I am tired of them showing age after only a few batches. I guess you can't use water that it is too hot when cleaning, but cold water never cleaned anything very well. Those damn sediment blockers always fall off and get lost too! If you could make one that screws on that would be awesome. Keep us posted!

 

[samc]

Doubt I'd have much use for one, but I'd probably buy it to help the cause. As long as you don't outsource production to China or similar!

 

[nutty_gnome]

You could avoide the valve issue by using the same method used by the Simple Siphon products
http://www.simplesiphon.com/products/
I see a simple siphon attached to a ss racking cane. Slide that into a ss tube and pump up and down in the tube. No need for a super tight interference fit, just use the larger ss tube as a guide to reduce splashing. Just a thought.

Oh yeah, and like Revvy I like the idea of moving boiling wort to an HDPE bucket under a no-chill process. That would be awesome.

 

[emjay]

You could possibly even siphon to some CFCs and plate chillers, if you wanted.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Sounds interesting as long as the price isn't cost-prohibitive. I haven't used my auto-siphon as much since I got a conical but I do use it occasionally. If it was more than three times the cost of the acrylic ones (so basically $40 or less), I'd probably pass. It ight be hard to keep costs that low especially with small production runs. The check valve really is the only difficult piece so I think that's key to keeping it affordable.

 

[DakotaRules]

You could avoide the valve issue by using the same method used by the Simple Siphon products
http://www.simplesiphon.com/products/
I see a simple siphon attached to a ss racking cane. Slide that into a ss tube and pump up and down in the tube. No need for a super tight interference fit, just use the larger ss tube as a guide to reduce splashing. Just a thought.

Oh yeah, and like Revvy I like the idea of moving boiling wort to an HDPE bucket under a no-chill process. That would be awesome.

Unfortunately this wont work, according to there Facebook page:
- Check Valve made of glass ball

Im sure this would crack or break with heat and repeated use.

 

[emjay]

Not sure why you couldn't use a SS ball, or borosilicate or maybe even polycarbonate.

 

[orangehero]

Mistake.

 

[kaiser423]

Yea, bent and broke my autosiphon siphoning hot wort (no/low chill).

Been looking for something else. I'll probably end up going with a brew kettle with a spigot on it. My cheap aluminum pot can't handle one, so all new for me......I'd be down with this, but it's probably half or more the cost of a new brew kettle.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Why can't your aluminum pot handle a spigot?

 

[dex0807]

The bottom of the outer tube just needs to be a cone-shaped piece with a stainless ball bearing. Now that you have MY wheels turning I may have to build me one of these fancy auto thingys at work tomorrow.

 

[DeafSmith]

Maybe have the outer tube threaded on the outside and have a couple of tabs or pieces of wire welded across the opening to retain the ball bearing, then the cone would screw onto that with the ball bearing trapped in between the two pieces. The valve wouldn't have to be a totally watertight seal - just good enough to block most of the liquid when the autosiphon is pumped.

 

[dracothered]

Anyone have a close up picture of the check valve?

 

[nutty_gnome]

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

The simple siphon also has a light spring behind the marble to keep the marble in place just above the inlet. It really is a marvelous thing. I used it yesterday to drain my kids pool.

 

[DakotaRules]

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

The simple siphon also has a light spring behind the marble to keep the marble in place just above the inlet. It really is a marvelous thing. I used it yesterday to drain my kids pool.

I think it may work but I'm just skeptical about the glass. I have called the makers of the "simple siphon" to see if they have other options available like a stainless version for us! If not I am going to make my own version of this and see where I get!

I think with all the HBT'ers on this we should be able to get one made.

What do you guys think about copper pipe? Any reason why not?

 

[doodlebug]

Subscribed

 

[nutty_gnome]

What do you guys think about copper pipe? Any reason why not?

The body of the simple siphon is already made out of copper (or a copper alloy that won't spark). I'm sure copper will discolor with use, but that ought not to impede the development of a working prototype.

 

[Bigscience]

What about a stainless slug (washer with no hole) instead of a marble? Lays flat to seal and tilts up to allow flow.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm meeting with a buddy that has access to a 3D printer tomorrow after work. I hope to get him to design up end of the exterior tube as well as the bottom of the racking cane part. Once that's been designed, and works, I'll be able to take those plans, and items, to machine shops to see who can make it at a decent rate (per item)... Either way, I expect to get a couple/few working prototypes manufactured from stainless initially, then find out what it would cost to make on a larger scale. Even if it means getting the parts made, and I/we put them together on our own time.

I do have a design in mind that's one moving item, that won't have weight issues like the mentioned slug would/could. I also have a design in mind for the end, to stop hop particles from entering, as well as large trub pieces. You'll still need to watch what's coming out the tube to make sure you don't dip too deep.

 

[Bigscience]

I do have a design in mind that's one moving item, that won't have weight issues like the mentioned slug would/could.

I wouldn't think a thin slug would cause any issues. The flow up should be able to move it enough to overcome the weight. This is the same design that the plastic ones have.

I'm interested in seeing the design because now you've got me thinking about it.

Also, my neighbor has a plasma table if you find you need parts cut.

 

[GuitarLord5000]

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

If this is indeed the case, I would certainly feel comfortable using it for hot wort transfer. I've used marbles at the bottom of my boil kettle when using my propane burner. It helps prevent boil overs. They are certainly heat resistant and difficult to break. I can't imagine anyone ever breaking one by using them in this application. I'll be picking up a few of these Simple Siphons. A quick attachment to my SS racking cane, and I've got a simple and cheap SS auto-siphon!

 

[GuitarLord5000]

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/tip-help-prevent-boilovers

Here is the article that cottoned me on to using marbles in the boil kettle. The particularly relevant portion is here:

"That's right, glass marbles, the kind kids play with. Just put about 20 of them in the brew pot. Don't worry about the marbles breaking. There're made of tempered glass and their spherical shape gives them great strength. That's why kids can bang them together day after day and they don't break. Don't worry about the heat, either. A few hundred degrees Fahrenheit is nothing to a tempered glass marble."

Of course, feel free to research these claims yourself. As for me, I've used them in this application and I am perfectly comfortable with their use.

 

[msexton]

How about a silicone insert in the shape of a 3D "V" or wedge. The larger end of this would just be a circular shape like a washer that would prevent the wedge from being sucked into the tube on the upstroke. The vertex of the wedge would have a slit that will allow the liquid to pass on the upstroke but would seal off on the down stroke. This way no complicated design or machining would be needed on the tube however the silicone valve would need to be custom made. I am sure I have seen valves like this. i will try to find and post pics or links.

EDIT - Search for duck bill valve. Here is a link that shows what I was trying to describe. http://www.daprorubber.com/duckbill-flapper-umbrella-valves.aspx