Spike sight glass/ etching off...?

[user 246304]

First, let me say this isn't meant to impugn Spike in any way. Great folks and I'm extremely happy with the general quality of these vessels.

I've only now begun running preliminaries on the vessels (volume accuracy, sealed tight, pump, heat, evaporation rate, etc.). I've not tried anything yet but the BK, but a bit bummed to discover that while the etching is right on for volume (and I presume the markings are all equidistant, so haven't gone more than 5 gallons), the sight glass is considerably off - nearly 1/2 gallons.

Anyone else with this? I'm wondering if somehow I impacted the volume on installing? Thoughts?

Edit: Just did the MLT. The etching is short by just under 1/2 gallon, sight glass short by just over 1/2 gallon.

I'm contacting them at this point, because this will not be an easy fix. I'd be lying to say I'm not somewhat disappointed, though again I've nothing but good things to say about their customer service.

 

[user 246304]

I just realized I spaced the fact I measured using our current tap water, which is somewhere in the middle 30's right now; obviously a lower volume than when measured at room temp, which I presume the vessels' markings and/or sight glasses are based on.

I think I'm going to ignore the etchings. I'm used to sight glasses and they were an option paid for, after all, so I'd like to get the glasses at least consistent. Does anyone happen to have the thermal expansion of tap water, moving from say 35 to 70F?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Does anyone happen to have the thermal expansion of tap water, moving from say 35 to 70F?

Not much at all for 35 F degree delta, approx. 1%. I recall it only being about 4% between ambient and boil, or about a quart for a 5 gallon batch, six gallon boil b/w flame out and post chill.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-specific-volume-weight-d_661.html

 

[user 246304]

Not much at all for 35 F degree delta, approx. 1%. I recall it only being about 4% between ambient and boil, or about a quart for a 5 gallon batch, six gallon boil b/w flame out and post chill.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-specific-volume-weight-d_661.html

Thanks Wilser. For some reason I'd thought it was more marked than that, so thought I had an answer to the discrepancies. Check that one off, it seems.

Well, I've contacted Spike and hope to find something workable. What I really need to do is fill all the way up to 20 gallons on both vessels, which I didn't do. Close to 1/2 Gallon off on both vessels, but at least if it's a consistent 1/2 gallon all the way from 3-20 gallons, that's a workable if not ideal situation.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

You have a sight glass in your boil kettle too?

 

[user 246304]

You have a sight glass in your boil kettle too?

Yep, all three. Same on my first system, from long ago. Worked for me, pre- and post-boil.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Yep, all three. Same on my first system, from long ago. Worked for me, pre- and post-boil.

Bitchin'!

I have an aluminum yardstick, graduated in gallons and half-gallons....

How do you clean the sight glass, after a boil?

Is the sight glass open to the atmosphere, @ the top, or ported back to the kettle?

 

[user 246304]

Yeah, I deliberated on this one, force of habit, I guess. I may actually end up plugging the ports, and use a yardstick like you do. For now, I'm just used to it.

My first system, it was just a single lower port, high-temp, food-grade rigid tubing. Bottom connected via a brass compression elbow. Marked off manually, electrician's tape connecting to keg. Hi tech!
Use to rinse with hose from the top, since the "glass" was open up top. Then an alkaline soak, rinse, etc.

This one has two ports, one low, one high. I'll basically do the same thing, using hose at top port and spray down. Alkaline soak, rinse, etc.

 

[user 246304]

Well, I heard back from Spike, not really happy at this point, unfortunately. They said their vessels have a 2.5% error, and further said .5 gallons is within that margin. If they're using a full 20 gallon fill, right, it is - but at mash fill volumes, for instance, a 5 gallon fill that only registers 4.5 gallons is obviously a much higher error percentage. I also wish I'd known of this tolerance ahead of time.

I still would have likely gone with them and plan to finish out my vessels (HLT is last needed) with them - but I think is a bit of a snag.

 

[JDXX1971]

Yep, I found the same thing with my Spike 20. I just re-calibrated the sight glass guard with my pitcher and a sharpie. I am a little annoyed by this but it is what it is. I was gonna ask @SpikeBrewing if he has any unmarked sight glass guards so I can etch my own, just have not gotten around to it.

 

[user 246304]

It seems it's just a manufacturing issue for them. Love them, love the vessels, just would have liked to know ahead of time. I'm just going to sharpie the guards as well. Sorry you've got the same issue, JD.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

#yardstickdipstickgraduatedingallonsforthefancyvessels

 

[user 246304]

#yardstickdipstickgraduatedingallonsforthefancyvessels

How did you calibrate the dipstick?

 

[Stealthcruiser]

How did you calibrate the dipstick?

1 gallon milk jug.........Pour in a gallon, put stick in lowest part, ( keggle), mark stick with Sharpie.
Repeat.

I took a 3 corner file later, and notched the aluminum yardstick, @ the Sharpie marks.

 

[JDXX1971]

aluminum yardstick,

 

[auburntsts]

I know this isn't an ideal solution but you could just make a correction card that would show for a desired volume what etching and/or sight glass marking should be used to achieve the desired volume.

 

[jekeane]

All my V2 Spike Sight glasses are off. I have replaced my spike mash tun and boil kettle with Blichmanns. I calibrated them side by side and the blichmanns were spot on while the spikes ere .5 of give or take.

I have always assumed that spike uses some other scale for measuring and calibrating their sight glasses that is counter the way anyone else on earth would do it.

I still use their HLT in which accurate volume isnt important as all I am doing is keeping my coil covered. I have a 20g spike that I occasionally use for large batches that I have maked on the kettle the instruction "If target is 15g collect 14.5g" with painters tape. Makes my stainless look classy...

 

[user 246304]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and solutions. I appreciate the perspectives though frustrated on behalf of all of us who have dealt with this.

I think I'm just going to do the sharpie on the guard route. It was what I did with my first rig, as I mentioned, and it bums me to do it here, but truthfully that's all stainless vanity. And yes, not happy I have to do it. At the end of the day, functionally I think that will leave me with spot on calibration because I'm doing it myself.

I will say Spike has been great in terms of customer service from day 1, and I do love the quality otherwise. So for now, I guess I'm in. It does stick in my craw a bit, and especially surprised to see this seems to be a general thing. I was very committed to them from the start, having decided pretty firmly based on all I could read. All I need now is the HLT, but if I were to do it over, knowing what I know, I'm no longer certain where I'd go.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I know this isn't an ideal solution but you could just make a correction card that would show for a desired volume what etching and/or sight glass marking should be used to achieve the desired volume.

This would drive me to drinking, look at sight glass look at correction card, forget sight glass reading look again...
Oh well I’m already drinking...

I think Bobby M has the solution with his sight glasses, sen a nice pack of decals and the calibration accuracy is on the end user

1/2 gallon off in five gallons is pitiful, likely I could do that well by eye...

 

[user 246304]

I feel I have a solid set of vessels, but agree, .5 off on 5 gallons is crazy. And no, that is not the 2.5% tolerance (told about after the fact)! For future potential buyers, I hope they are made aware of this, but better, that Spike corrects this - no reason this should happen. And it only hurts them.

I don't know where I saw it, but first came to them because I wanted welded fittings. A lot of very positive reviews, I sat with it a long time and decided all in with their work. Outside of - I think it was h22lude? - I hadn't seen anything about this issue, unless I spaced it. I'm still likely going with them for the final vessel I need, the HLT, but options are good. Can anyone recommend a welded vessel for an HLT, roughly 18" in diameter (frame is made already, I built it around using the Spike)? Would need 1/2" FPT ports for valve and thermo, which I have, and probably a welded sight glass port - though I know Bobby has great stuff.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

( Don't be....).

 

[user 246304]

I just want to say, I simply marked the sight glass guards to the correct volume. More, and for me, much more as I value these kinds of things as we all do, Spike did what they could to make things right. I do believe they're good people making a high quality line. I'm buying my final vessel from them and would do so again.

 

[Steve Schmitt]

I received a similar response from Spike. See below:

"The sight glasses do have a ~.5gal tolerance because it takes into account the waters expansion when heated."

 

[augiedoggy]

There is another thread floating around about this exact same concern (which I see you remember from h22lude).. The other thing to consider is options like other sight glasses and elements, false bottoms and so on all change the displacement of the liquid in the kettle so its kind of impossible to make a one size fits all marking unless they had a guy literally measuring each different configuration and the customer didnt change anything and even then there would be small discrepancies. (I agree .5 gallons is a bit much for this size kettle).

I always just use the sight glass I installed and measured using bobby ms decals.. I kinda assumed people had one or the other as far as kettle markings or sight glasses with markings. my bayous kettles have markings embossed into them but they also are inaccurate from what I assumed was all the changes I made.

 

[user 246304]

When I wrote to Spike, they indicated their tolerance was based on 2.5 %. When I said I was off by .5 gallons at 20 gallons, they said that was within their 2.5% tolerance. I pointed out most sparge vessels aren't filled to 20 gallons, however, and if .5+/- at 20 gallons = 2.5%, .5 +/- gallons at 5 gallons is 10% - way outside the stated 2.5% tolerance.

In my case, it doesn't matter. It lingers in my craw that the QC - and policing over here - by the 3rd party, Chinese manufacturer is so off, and it wasn't enforced on our side; but it's a doable irritant and one I dealt with personally by just marking the glasses up. I do agree with those who feel you shouldn't have to do that when you're paying $300 per vessel.

It seems from another thread they've gotten it worked out with their manufacturer. I'm happy for them, and for their customers.

I think Augie Doggy's solution makes the most sense. I've heard good things about them.

 

[dthompson79]

FWIW... My SsBRewtech 20 Gallon kettles have the same problem but mine are off over 1 gallon at 10 ish gallons and almost 1.25 gallons at 20, but my mash tun is right on. I don't think this problem is unique to Spike. Like Augiedoggy said there are a lot of displacement variables that can effect the measured value at batch volumes

 

[user 246304]

FWIW... My SsBRewtech 20 Gallon kettles have the same problem but mine are off over 1 gallon at 10 ish gallons and almost 1.25 gallons at 20, but my mash tun is right on. I don't think this problem is unique to Spike. Like Augiedoggy said there are a lot of displacement variables that can effect the measured value at batch volumes

Are we talking merely dip tubes and, at most, a false bottom? I just can't see how that would displace by that much. Am I missing something? I also don't see how it would result in random errors - .5 gallons at 4 gallons, .25 gallons at 11 gallons, etc.

My last system was a keggle system and it was a pretty slapdash affair, given I built it entirely myself and I suck at building. I will say, I hit targets (gravities, pH's, volumes) crazily, really tight. Probably because I had control over everything, I was 20 years younger, and I was more careful when building.

 

[dthompson79]

Mine wasn't a displacement issue it was just off. The scale seemed to be etched in the pot in the wrong place. In addition the scale itself was inaccurate as the error increased as volume increased.

I wasn't saying that the diptube, false bottom, void in TC or threaded fittings, probes, elements consisted of the entire error on yours but any of those will contribute, but it just sounds like yours is slightly off

 

[kh54s10]

I'll have to remember this when and if I ever get my Buy Once Cry Once system and see if I can get the sightglasses with no markings. Then to decide what temperature to use when calibrating. I used tap water for my Bobby M sight glass.