Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[kxavier_23]

Wanted to test this myself.

I filled my CF15 to 17 gallons of water and hooked up the carbonation stone two ways. First "with racking arm" is the way recommended by Spike. The racking arm is installed in the racking port, followed by the 1.5" butterfly valve, followed by the carb stone. I slowly dialed up my O2 cylinder (regular red cylinder with regulator and HEPA filter) until I got bubbling at the surface and then got my phone and shot a short movie.

I then set it up as described by @Blazinlow86 (version using the valve) - put my sample valve on the racking port just to close it off, put my butterfly on the sample port, with the carbstone on that. Without adjusting the regulator on the O2 cylinder I reattached it to the carb stone and shot the second movie.

To my eye the bubbles I can see are smaller without having the carb stone work from inside the racking arm. I have no way to tell if they are any different down near the stone itself. I think I will give it a try leaving the carb stone attached to the sample port for the duration of the fermentation.

Do you use this to aerate as well? I just used my CF10 for the first time and the large bubbles when using the racking arm seem concerning to me. Not having the same tight small bubbles I typically would get using my wand.

 

[eric19312]

Do you use this to aerate as well? I just used my CF10 for the first time and the large bubbles when using the racking arm seem concerning to me. Not having the same tight small bubbles I typically would get using my wand.

Yes

Another one of those things I wish I had a DO meter to check but in the end after trying both ways I now do it the way Spike suggests (stone on the racking arm). Works just fine for carbing and willing to assume it is also good for the O2.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

My CF10 just arrived. I am so excited!! In preparation, last week I converted my 7 cu ft. GE chest freezer that I used for fermenting into a four tap keezer (ala the Mongoose collar/facade design). My old dorm fridge two-tap tower is now going to be used for cold conditioning kegs. I cannot wait to start using all this new stuff. Need to make more beer!

 

[khannon]

CF15 is slated to be here on Friday. Only thing that sucks is a huge project at work eats my weekend and next week. It will sit empty and taunting me until the following weekend..

 

[eric19312]

CF15 is slated to be here on Friday. Only thing that sucks is a huge project at work eats my weekend and next week. It will sit empty and taunting me until the following weekend..

Hah just unwrapping it and setting it up is fun. You can also pressure test it to make sure you are getting a good seal. Maybe give it a PBW wash to make sure no manufacturing oils left behind too. Lots of fun without having to actually brew.

 

[stealthfixr]

Two brews in with my new CF5 and this thread's been an amazing resource. Other than minimizing oxidation via pressurized transfers to a keg and pressurized fermentations, I am not quite sure why but my two batches fermented in the CF5 were clearly a step above the plastic fermented batches before it. Using the sight glass on the lid with an extra valve, I can now dry hop with little to no O2 exposure, and the 2" dump on the bottom makes clearing it all out really easy. Once I figured out the lid gasket orientation (i.e. read the darned directions), holding pressure is a snap.

The pressure manifold combo, pressure transfer kit, the racking arm, extra wide shelf, casters, and extra gaskets and tri-clamps are highly recommended accessories.

I was thinking of adding a Flex+ next, but I am leaning more and more towards another Spike conical, maybe the CF10. Very happy Spike conical user here.

 

[khannon]

Two brews in with my new CF5 and this thread's been an amazing resource. Other than minimizing oxidation via pressurized transfers to a keg and pressurized fermentations, I am not quite sure why but my two batches fermented in the CF5 were clearly a step above the plastic fermented batches before it. Using the sight glass on the lid with an extra valve, I can now dry hop with little to no O2 exposure, and the 2" dump on the bottom makes clearing it all out really easy. Once I figured out the lid gasket orientation (i.e. read the darned directions), holding pressure is a snap.

The pressure manifold combo, pressure transfer kit, the racking arm, extra wide shelf, casters, and extra gaskets and tri-clamps are highly recommended accessories.

I was thinking of adding a Flex+ next, but I am leaning more and more towards another Spike conical, maybe the CF10. Very happy Spike conical user here.

Thanks, I picked up the longer legs and stabilizing shelf. I have quite a few tri-clamps and accessories(spunding valve etc..) honestly, the biggest bit is that I have a bunch of 2 and 4" tri-clamp stuff, and now I am adding some 1.5 stuff, and I'm (not overly) concerned about organization.
Still, the pictures are really sexy, I can't wait. It was either this(and some brewing gear) or a mid-70's t-top 'vette, and as I live in New England(and am happily married), I opted for the one that gets me better beer with easier cleanup

 

[FswBG]

I opted to use the 90 deg elbow on my current batch fermenting and it has been a real challenge to dump trub. I have it configured as fermenter>elbow>sight>valve and I can see from the sight glass (horizontal) that beer is slowly pushing through across the very top, like it's riding the settled trub in the elbow and glass. I am going slow per usual and not sure what else could be wrong. I typically have the valve directly on the conical and the elbow just sits as bling on the wall of accessories. Did I miss something or is there not really a benefit from using the elbow other than helping clearance?

 

[eric19312]

I opted to use the 90 deg elbow on my current batch fermenting and it has been a real challenge to dump trub. I have it configured as fermenter>elbow>sight>valve and I can see from the sight glass (horizontal) that beer is slowly pushing through across the very top, like it's riding the settled trub in the elbow and glass. I am going slow per usual and not sure what else could be wrong. I typically have the valve directly on the conical and the elbow just sits as bling on the wall of accessories. Did I miss something or is there not really a benefit from using the elbow other than helping clearance?

I like fermenter>sight>elbow>valve. I stop dumping when I start to see beer mixing with the trub/yeast/hops in the glass and let it settle again. Then dump a little more. I imagine that at some point I will get good enough dumping that the sight will not be needed but for now it helps me see what's going on.

 

[Bad Bubba]

I have tried the sight glass both ways and like it vertical instead of horizontal.

 

[JRG]

I have had my cf5 for about 5 months and about to finish fermenting my 6th batch with it. I stopped using the elbow after the 2nd batch. I don’t think an elbow is needed on the homebrew scale because 2-3 feet of 1/2 inch tubing functions as well for me. I use the sight glass differently depending on if I plan on dry hopping. After seeing all my dry hops stuck in the sight glass with little contact with the beer, I stopped using the sight glass for dry hopped beers. This is where I am at currently but still a newbie with this.

For dry hopped beers:
Fermenter>valve>sight>TC barb & tubing
I transfer wort from kettle through the bottom and leave connected with valve open and wait for trub to settle. Then I close valve trapping trub in sight glass and remove sight glass for good. Pitch yeast and let fermentation finish. Swap blow off for gas manifold and purge with co2 a couple times to 10psi. Drop temp to ~50 degrees for 24 hours while under pressure then slowly dump yeast/trub under pressure using TC barb & tubing. Then add dry hops and let free rise to ~60 and maintain for 3-5 days. Dump hops slowly until consistency changes. Wait 12-24 hours and repeat. Then rotate racking arm up and rack to keg under pressure.

For non-dry hopped beers:
Fermenter>sight>valve>TC barb & tubing
I transfer wort from kettle through the bottom and close valve. Then wait for trub to settle. Open valve below sight then close once sight is clear. Pitch yeast. Let fermentation finish and cold crash. If I can’t see beer in top of sight I dump yeast until beer is visible. Leave racking arm down and transfer to keg under pressure.

 

[jdr01]

What is the maximum volume of wort anyone has used in a CF15? Can I get 16 gallons in without any issues? I am guessing head space might be a problem.
Thanks

 

[eric19312]

What is the maximum volume of wort anyone has used in a CF15? Can I get 16 gallons in without any issues? I am guessing head space might be a problem.
Thanks

I fill it up. Here it is with a bit over 17 gallons yesterday. I'd have gone a little higher but was into the kettle trub so I stopped there. I like to have enough beer to dump yeast and dry hops and still get 15 gallons into my kegs. This fill will give me about 1.5 gallons to work with on the dumps while leaving 15.6 gallons in fermentor on kegging day. Need the 0.6 extra cause that is beer below the racking arm.

 

[jdr01]

Great. Exactly what I want to do.
Thanks

 

[eric19312]

Great. Exactly what I want to do.
Thanks

make sure you use a blow off during active fermentation.

 

[jdr01]

Yup I would imagine it could get ugly with wort so close to the top.

 

[mcmeador]

Hey, everyone. Sorry if this has been covered, but I don’t have time to read through 61 pages of discussion.

What is a good sanitation regimen for the CF5 prior to filling with wort? I just got one and will be using it soon once some other equipment arrives. My thought was to remove all attachments, gaskets, and tc clamps. Soak all of those in sanitizer. Then put them all on and fill the fermenter with sanitizer. Let it sit a few minutes and then drain from the dump port. Does that sound good? Is it overkill?

Thanks!

 

[jdr01]

I do that with my CF15. Never had a problem.

 

[Tom R]

I just use sanitizer in a spray bottle for the the inside of my conical. All removable parts get a soak in sanitizer.

 

[mcmeador]

Thanks for the quick replies. Also, do you think it’s acceptable to sanitize the CF5 the night before brewing as long as it’s kept closed with the blow-off hose in sanitizer until filling?

 

[khannon]

I haven't gotten to use mine yet CF15, and it looks lonely but I cleaned it with recirc hot PBW after I got it, and plan on a spray star-san, then after using it, a clean following fermenting(immediate I hope via CIP ball ), let it dry, seal it up, then spray star san, with a deep clean 1-2 times a year(fully disassemble, soak all gaskets etc..).

My god are these things sexy though... maybe full pics, but definitely no empty ones, gotta have some decency

 

[eric19312]

Thanks for the quick replies. Also, do you think it’s acceptable to sanitize the CF5 the night before brewing as long as it’s kept closed with the blow-off hose in sanitizer until filling?

It will probably work but not sure why you would want to do it this way. You must believe in importance of sanitation to have invested hundreds of dollars in a stainless fermentor with all sanitary TC fittings...why compromise now? Put it away clean and sanitize thoroughly while you are boiling and chilling your wort.

I haven't gotten to use mine yet CF15, and it looks lonely but I cleaned it with recirc hot PBW after I got it, and plan on a spray star-san, then after using it, a clean following fermenting(immediate I hope via CIP ball ), let it dry, seal it up, then spray star san, with a deep clean 1-2 times a year(fully disassemble, soak all gaskets etc..).

This may work out fine. I also hear some homebrewers get away with barely sanitizing anything and still make decent beer. But I'd suggest doing a few cycles of complete cleaning before starting to cut corners. The first couple times disassembly and reassembly may seem like a lot of effort but with practice it is not bad at all. CIP is great, I use it, but with a full disassembly followed by soaking in water/hot PBE/hot water/Starsan cleaning process of the tank and the parts every brew. I CIP with a sump pump in a 5 gallon bucket, all the parts are in the bucket with the pump.

 

[mcmeador]

It will probably work but not sure why you would want to do it this way. You must believe in importance of sanitation to have invested hundreds of dollars in a stainless fermentor with all sanitary TC fittings...why compromise now? Put it away clean and sanitize thoroughly while you are boiling and chilling your wort.

The intention isn’t to be lazy or compromise the integrity of my processes. I obviously wouldn’t want to do that, which is why I’m asking if it would work. It would just be nice not to have too many processes crammed together if at all possible. Plus I’ll have a 2-year-old running around the house, so I don’t want to leave anything unattended.

I ended up just ordering the CIP ball from Spike and a Chugger pump, which I will use for sanitizing the inside as well as cleaning. I will still remove all attachments and gaskets for a soak before using the CIP to give the interior a sanitizer bath.

I saw another thread on here where someone said the CF5 isn’t designed for use with CIP and that it would result in inadequate cleaning and sanitizing. Do you know why that might be? I don’t see any disclaimers on Spike’s site, and I purchased the CIP ball per recommendation from Spike’s technical service when inquiring about sanitizing best practices.

 

[NeoBrew]

I'm an an interloper here, I have a SS Unitank, not a Spike. With my CIP ball, the critical factor is how much pressure your pump can generate. It takes a pretty good blast to get a CIP ball to spray upwards. I bought a larger (cheap) sump pump from Amazon to make it work.

I've had mine a couple years now. I've fallen into the habit of just taking it apart and washing everything by hand. The extra work and logistics of using the spray ball when I have to take everything apart anyway doesn't make much sense to me. I had tried leaving things assembled and just using CIP, but I found there were significant amounts of goop in the triclover fittings where the spray ball didn't directly hit.

I clean up after a ferment, then I sanitize on brew day.

 

[mcmeador]

I'm an an interloper here, I have a SS Unitank, not a Spike. With my CIP ball, the critical factor is how much pressure your pump can generate. It takes a pretty good blast to get a CIP ball to spray upwards. I bought a larger (cheap) sump pump from Amazon to make it work.

I've had mine a couple years now. I've fallen into the habit of just taking it apart and washing everything by hand. The extra work and logistics of using the spray ball when I have to take everything apart anyway doesn't make much sense to me. I had tried leaving things assembled and just using CIP, but I found there were significant amounts of goop in the triclover fittings where the spray ball didn't directly hit.

I clean up after a ferment, then I sanitize on brew day.

I got a 7 gpm pump, which they say their CIP ball is designed for. I like the idea of being able to sanitize without filling the thing with sanitizer. The way my stuff is set up, it would be a pain to get 5 gallons of sanitizer into it and out of it. Figure with the CIP attachment, I can just put a gallon or two in and turn the pump on and let it do it’s thing. Then dump the sanitizer and fill with wort.

 

[eric19312]

I ended up just ordering the CIP ball from Spike and a Chugger pump, which I will use for sanitizing the inside as well as cleaning. I will still remove all attachments and gaskets for a soak before using the CIP to give the interior a sanitizer bath.

I saw another thread on here where someone said the CF5 isn’t designed for use with CIP and that it would result in inadequate cleaning and sanitizing. Do you know why that might be? I don’t see any disclaimers on Spike’s site, and I purchased the CIP ball per recommendation from Spike’s technical service when inquiring about sanitizing best practices.

I don't know why the CIP ball would be any worse for the CF5 than it is for the CF10 or CF15. If anything I'd think it would do better in the smaller vessel. Here is how I use mine. I almost always keg and brew on same day so it is one continuous process.

Empty the CF

1. Take off the lid and disassemble all fittings. The body fittings and gaskets get sloshed around in a bucket of warm water as I remove them.
2. Take the CF to driveway and hose it out well. With a soft sponge (no scratchy pad!) wipe down the krausen ring and the lid and rinse them again.
3. Put the lid back on with CIP ball in place and close off the 4" TC all the 1.5" TC ports. I use TC end caps for these except for the racking cane port which gets a vent hose attached.
4. Get a bucket of hot water and add PBW. Sump pump in the hot water. Floating heating element in the bucket (I use an inkbird controller to control the heating element). All the attachments and gaskets in the bucket. Then CIP with 135F PBW for 30 minutes.
5. Then I get a clean bucket of hot water. Move sump pump, heating element, and all the parts and gaskets into that bucket. CIP rinse water 135F for 5-10 minutes. I save that bucket of hot PBW for cleaning my hot side gear which will need cleaning pretty soon.
6. Then I get a bucket of starsan. Move pump and attachments into the bucket of starsan. CIP with starsan for 3 minutes. Foamy!
7. Reassemble all the TC parts and gaskets wet and move the CF to my fermentation chamber. Close it till ready to fill (probably it waits 2 hours from when cleaning is done until im filling it again.

When occasionally I am not going to brew same day I keg I will follow same procedure for steps 1-5. If I have time and it's been awhile, I will consider doing a passivation cycle with hot citric acid and allow that to air dry. I passivate with all the attachments in the bucket just like when I am cleaning or sanitizing. I will not bother reassembling the unit but will put attachments away in a tote until next brew day when I will do steps 6 and 7, starting with the attachments in the bucket of starsan, then reassembling wet.

 

[mcmeador]

I don't know why the CIP ball would be any worse for the CF5 than it is for the CF10 or CF15. If anything I'd think it would do better in the smaller vessel. Here is how I use mine. I almost always keg and brew on same day so it is one continuous process.

Empty the CF

1. Take off the lid and disassemble all fittings. The body fittings and gaskets get sloshed around in a bucket of warm water as I remove them.
2. Take the CF to driveway and hose it out well. With a soft sponge (no scratchy pad!) wipe down the krausen ring and the lid and rinse them again.
3. Put the lid back on with CIP ball in place and close off the 4" TC all the 1.5" TC ports. I use TC end caps for these except for the racking cane port which gets a vent hose attached.
4. Get a bucket of hot water and add PBW. Sump pump in the hot water. Floating heating element in the bucket (I use an inkbird controller to control the heating element). All the attachments and gaskets in the bucket. Then CIP with 135F PBW for 30 minutes.
5. Then I get a clean bucket of hot water. Move sump pump, heating element, and all the parts and gaskets into that bucket. CIP rinse water 135F for 5-10 minutes. I save that bucket of hot PBW for cleaning my hot side gear which will need cleaning pretty soon.
6. Then I get a bucket of starsan. Move pump and attachments into the bucket of starsan. CIP with starsan for 3 minutes. Foamy!
7. Reassemble all the TC parts and gaskets wet and move the CF to my fermentation chamber. Close it till ready to fill (probably it waits 2 hours from when cleaning is done until im filling it again.

When occasionally I am not going to brew same day I keg I will follow same procedure for steps 1-5. If I have time and it's been awhile, I will consider doing a passivation cycle with citric acid and allow that to air dry. I passivate with all the attachments in the bucket just like when I am cleaning or sanitizing. I will not bother reassembling the unit but will put attachments away in a tote until next brew day when I will do steps 6 and 7, starting with the attachments in the bucket of starsan, then reassembling wet.

Thanks for all the details. I will consider that when getting my process figured out.

I just noticed that there is a dent in the lip of my CF5. See picture below with lid sitting on top, which makes it really easy to see. I emailed Spike about it and am waiting to see how they will respond. Judging by a flashlight test, it seems to seal up when I tighten the lid clamp on but don’t have the equipment for a pressure test just yet. Would this concern any of you?

 

[eric19312]

Thanks for all the details. I will consider that when getting my process figured out.

I just noticed that there is a dent in the lip of my CF5. See picture below with lid sitting on top, which makes it really easy to see. I emailed Spike about it and am waiting to see how they will respond. Judging by a flashlight test, it seems to seal up when I tighten the lid clamp on but don’t have the equipment for a pressure test just yet. Would this concern any of you?

Yes
I'd be concerned for sure. Spike's lid is a bit of a love/hate feature. Makes cleaning and visual inspection super easy but I am guessing just not as easy to get a good seal as a TC port. I've never had that issue myself but understand others do. Was the box damaged when you received?

 

[danclark714]

Thanks for the quick replies. Also, do you think it’s acceptable to sanitize the CF5 the night before brewing as long as it’s kept closed with the blow-off hose in sanitizer until filling?

I have two CF15s that I sanitize right after I'm done cleaning, seal it up, and let it sit until my next brew. Absolutely zero issues doing that so far.

 

[mcmeador]

No apparent damage to the box other than one side looking like it had gotten wet or oily at some point, but the fermenter was sandwiched between two firm foam pieces at the bottom and top of the box. I don’t think it was damaged during shipping.

 

[mcmeador]

Yes
I'd be concerned for sure. Spike's lid is a bit of a love/hate feature. Makes cleaning and visual inspection super easy but I am guessing just not as easy to get a good seal as a TC port. I've never had that issue myself but understand others do. Was the box damaged when you received?

Spike customer service replied asking if I could try straightening out the lip with a wrench. If I was successful, they would give me a $50 gift card for the trouble. If not, they would work with me on another solution. I was able to get it straightened out pretty well, so I will be doing a pressure test on it tonight or tomorrow. The customer service representative replied that a $50 gift card had been issued and would come via email. I have to say I’m impressed with the customer service so far.

 

[mcmeador]

Pressure test went well. No audible leaks and held 6 PSI for about 15 minutes.

 

[eric19312]

Pressure test went well. No audible leaks and held 6 PSI for about 15 minutes.

good news. Assume you are going to let the pressure test continue right?

 

[mcmeador]

How long do you think is necessary? My feeling was that if pressurized CO2 wasn’t able to leak out at all in that time, there should be no concern about anything sneaking inside when pressure is equalized, but I’m no scientist.

 

[NeoBrew]

How long do you think is necessary? My feeling was that if pressurized CO2 wasn’t able to leak out at all in that time, there should be no concern about anything sneaking inside when pressure is equalized, but I’m no scientist.

You may ask it to hold pressure for a few weeks at a time when you ferment. Also, if you are going to be pumping any bottled CO2 in there, you would not want it to leak even a little bit and drain your bottle. I tend to cold crash for up to a week with bottled CO2 on mine.

You can decide how long is long enough. I'd at least do it over night. Longer if you have the time.

 

[Vale71]

Very important for performing a longer pressure test, there must be no water or other water based solution in the tank otherwise it will absorb CO2 simulating a leak.

 

[Dem Castles]

Cold crashing now from 90 degrees to 65 degrees over a day or so.
Yeast-
Omega Hot Head Ale Kveik

Here's the dilemma, I was hoping to dry hop using a sight glass/butterfly valve to minimize oxygen exposure.

Due to my kegerators height, I would have to move the fermenter out and then do the dry hop.

Questions -
At 5 PSI in fermenter, can I close the butterfly valve, add the Spike sight glass full with 1.5 oz of hops.

Purge hops at 2 PSI, open butterfly valve to drop them in. Close butterfly valve, remove sight glass, add manifold back on, open butterfly valve and then increase fermenter to 8 PSI?

 

[user 272106]

You'll want the hops in the sight glass under more pressure than the fermenter was when you closed them butterfly valve. If not, it will shoot the hops upwards into your manifold when you open the valve, and you don't want that.

 

[Dem Castles]

You'll want the hops in the sight glass under more pressure than the fermenter was when you closed them butterfly valve. If not, it will shoot the hops upwards into your manifold when you open the valve, and you don't want that.

Oh okay thanks, do you know how much PSI the sight glass can handle?

Also is there any problem with just releasing all pressure within the flex+ and then adding the hops in via sight glass/manifold combo? It is at 65 degrees now and I will dry hop for 2 days. Then cold crash at 36 for 2 more days.

 

[eric19312]

Oh okay thanks, do you know how much PSI the sight glass can handle?

Also is there any problem with just releasing all pressure within the flex+ and then adding the hops in via sight glass/manifold combo? It is at 65 degrees now and I will dry hop for 2 days. Then cold crash at 36 for 2 more days.

The sight glass will hold more psi than the PRV will permit. I’ve put 40 PSI on my sight glass to move a plug of pellet hops back up into the tank.