Spike Conical- observations and best practices

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beervoid said:
Hey all,

So I have maybe screwed up a batch just now in my conical and hoping for some feedback here.
I have a butterfly valve directly on the bottom of my conical, normally I dump from there but have just not changed to a diaphragm valve to control the dump speed better.
Now at day 7 I hooked it up as following
Butterfly valve -> elbow -> sightglass -> diaphragm valve - tubing thread out.
I was concerned that I would get a bubble floating into my tank as I opened the butterfly valve, but since I have about 4psi of pressure on the head of the tank left (not connected to gas), I was assuming that the bubble would come out through the bottom as I opened the diaphragm valve.
Once I cracked the butterfly valve however and started turning the diaphragm valve, I could hear a bubble escape into the tank.

I did not purge the new connected setup as I did not think there would be a bubble going into the tank with head pressure.
Did I not have enough pressure in order to prevent the bubble from escaping?
Should I have the diaphragm valve open when I crack the butterfly?

I hope this one bubble didnt wreck my beer, anyone has a similar experience? I'm leaving the beer on 21c for now hoping the yeast will absorb any DO that got into the beer.

Cheers everyone!
Click to expand...
Is there a reason for putting the butterfly valve at the top and not at the end? If you have any sealed sections with air it's going to be impossible to avoid oxygen ingress. I always put my valve at the end of the line and just let the trub fill the elbow.
 
Darth_Duane said:
Is there a reason for putting the butterfly valve at the top and not at the end? If you have any sealed sections with air it's going to be impossible to avoid oxygen ingress. I always put my valve at the end of the line and just let the trub fill the elbow.
Click to expand...
To not have dryhops drop in there and maximize contact.
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
Correct yes, but what I was referring to is next time you set up this way to purge that section with co2 before dumping yeast. That way the little bubble that goes into your fermenter will be mostly co2 not oxygen.
Click to expand...
More inclined to keep it on from start and fill with wort
 
beervoid said:
To not have dryhops drop in there and maximize contact.
Click to expand...
I guess you will have to choose which bothers you more. I'm crazy about avoiding cold side oxidation and I have never had a problem with dry hop character.

In some of the early posts on this thread users were using CO2 to rouse dry hops from the bottom up in to solution. I'm not sure how succesful this is in practice since in my experience anything that has dropped out quickly drops back out again. I tend not to dump my trub so that elbow is just full of trub and yeast cake and any dry hops wouldn't be in the elbow anyway. As was mentioned before, purging that space as best you can might at least mitigate some of the oxygen.
 
Darth_Duane said:
I guess you will have to choose which bothers you more. I'm crazy about avoiding cold side oxidation and I have never had a problem with dry hop character.

In some of the early posts on this thread users were using CO2 to rouse dry hops from the bottom up in to solution. I'm not sure how succesful this is in practice since in my experience anything that has dropped out quickly drops back out again. I tend not to dump my trub so that elbow is just full of trub and yeast cake and any dry hops wouldn't be in the elbow anyway. As was mentioned before, purging that space as best you can might at least mitigate some of the oxygen.
Click to expand...
Yes I need to drump to yeast as I do rouse and for me it made a big difference, got much more extraction so im definately planning on experimenting more with it, pressure and time.
I would close the butterfly just a bit so that the hops would hopefully mostly stay in the bottom of the tank, the 2" tc port and elbow would house quiet some volume I would think.
 
So I've completed dumping yeast but noticed that there is a layer in my sightglass on the bottom that just doesnt want to budge.
Any other people having this problem? I suspect it's cause the sightglass diameter is not the same as the piping.
 
beervoid said:
Hey all,

So I have maybe screwed up a batch just now in my conical and hoping for some feedback here.
I have a butterfly valve directly on the bottom of my conical, normally I dump from there but have just not changed to a diaphragm valve to control the dump speed better.
Now at day 7 I hooked it up as following
Butterfly valve -> elbow -> sightglass -> diaphragm valve - tubing thread out.
I was concerned that I would get a bubble floating into my tank as I opened the butterfly valve, but since I have about 4psi of pressure on the head of the tank left (not connected to gas), I was assuming that the bubble would come out through the bottom as I opened the diaphragm valve.
Once I cracked the butterfly valve however and started turning the diaphragm valve, I could hear a bubble escape into the tank.

I did not purge the new connected setup as I did not think there would be a bubble going into the tank with head pressure.
Did I not have enough pressure in order to prevent the bubble from escaping?
Should I have the diaphragm valve open when I crack the butterfly?

I hope this one bubble didnt wreck my beer, anyone has a similar experience? I'm leaving the beer on 21c for now hoping the yeast will absorb any DO that got into the beer.

Cheers everyone!
Click to expand...
I stopped using the elbow, I have the butterfly valve and a hose barb fitting and just dump straight into a small bucket (I attach a short piece of tubing to the hose barb. I have not had any problems doing it this way without issue (though some type of valve that I could control the dump speed would be nice).
 
IDMaynard said:
I stopped using the elbow, I have the butterfly valve and a hose barb fitting and just dump straight into a small bucket (I attach a short piece of tubing to the hose barb. I have not had any problems doing it this way without issue (though some type of valve that I could control the dump speed would be nice).
Click to expand...
Been working allright for me too but it does get messy at times and I feel like I could get better yields with the diaphragm valve.
Also hoping that I will have to dump less times so saving time.
 
For those who are thinking to invest in a diaphragm valve here's my experience.
I only did 1 batch so far and have had a far less yield then before.
Reason being. Basically the diaphragma valve has the same problem as a direct butterfly, it's moving either too slow or not and then BOOM starts moving very fast, problem being you can't shut it very fast so you need to have another hand on the butterfly valve, I'd would say that just dumping straight from the butterfly valve would make more sense as I feel I can time it better and faster.
So far im not impressed with this thing but I will keep using it to see if I can learn to use it better.

Any comments techniques welcome if there are other uses of these types of valves.
 
beervoid said:
For those who are thinking to invest in a diaphragm valve here's my experience.
I only did 1 batch so far and have had a far less yield then before.
Reason being. Basically the diaphragma valve has the same problem as a direct butterfly, it's moving either too slow or not and then BOOM starts moving very fast, problem being you can't shut it very fast so you need to have another hand on the butterfly valve, I'd would say that just dumping straight from the butterfly valve would make more sense as I feel I can time it better and faster.
So far im not impressed with this thing but I will keep using it to see if I can learn to use it better.

Any comments techniques welcome if there are other uses of these types of valves.
Click to expand...
What I have found, that works well for me at least, has been to remove the elbow completely and similar to a few others go fermenter>valve>SG>valve>QD. This allows me to account for most situations.

If I dry hop, I’ll close the first valve (SG still filled) to allow better contact with beer instead of sitting in a SG. Once DH is done I’ll open it up and let the hops settle down into SG and continue dumping hops/yeast until I see beer at the top of the SG.

If I harvest yeast, I’ll dump trub and early floc’d yeast by connecting normal 1/2”ID tubing that’s 4’ or so to provide enough resistance to avoid the slow to explosive release that usually busts through the sediment bed. Once I’ve got a SG full of healthy yeast I’ll remove the tubing and go straight into a flask.

Taking that approach I don’t have issues clogging or worrying about the bubble going up through the fermenter. If on rare occasion I need to attach the SG after the fact I’ll purge it with CO2 beforehand. I’ve had my frustrations as many of you have as well, but once you find a good process it becomes easier to avoid the headaches and you know what to expect.
 
FswBG said:
What I have found, that works well for me at least, has been to remove the elbow completely and similar to a few others go fermenter>valve>SG>valve>QD. This allows me to account for most situations.

If I dry hop, I’ll close the first valve (SG still filled) to allow better contact with beer instead of sitting in a SG. Once DH is done I’ll open it up and let the hops settle down into SG and continue dumping hops/yeast until I see beer at the top of the SG.

If I harvest yeast, I’ll dump trub and early floc’d yeast by connecting normal 1/2”ID tubing that’s 4’ or so to provide enough resistance to avoid the slow to explosive release that usually busts through the sediment bed. Once I’ve got a SG full of healthy yeast I’ll remove the tubing and go straight into a flask.

Taking that approach I don’t have issues clogging or worrying about the bubble going up through the fermenter. If on rare occasion I need to attach the SG after the fact I’ll purge it with CO2 beforehand. I’ve had my frustrations as many of you have as well, but once you find a good process it becomes easier to avoid the headaches and you know what to expect.
Click to expand...
How many PSI top pressure do you have?
What diameter is the QD?
 
Does anyone here has any experience with these types of pressure relief valves?
valve.jpg

I bought one which is rated 0 to 30psi. I've got it on my fermenter now which is sitting at 4psi pressure and screwed all the way down but it doesn't seem to start releasing anything.
 
That looks like the same mechanism of the SS Brewtech one that I have, accept mine has a reservoir around it so you can see bubbles. The way I do it is to unscrew it until it is loose, then tighten it down very slowly until the pressure you want reads on your gauge. You could unscrew yours until the pressure begins escaping, then adjust it to your desired spunding pressure. Screwed down all the way = no CO2 escape. Which is what I do when I cold crash.
 
RCope said:
That looks like the same mechanism of the SS Brewtech one that I have, accept mine has a reservoir around it so you can see bubbles. The way I do it is to unscrew it until it is loose, then tighten it down very slowly until the pressure you want reads on your gauge. You could unscrew yours until the pressure begins escaping, then adjust it to your desired spunding pressure. Screwed down all the way = no CO2 escape. Which is what I do when I cold crash.
Click to expand...
how much PSI is yours rated?
I unscrewed it all the way up but it did not release pressure at all.
 
The website doesn't say "pressure rating". I ferment around 5 psi after a few days with a blow-off. I don't naturally carbonate, but if I did, I think 15 psi is the max you'd want to go, especially since the Conical has a built in relief valve set at that level on the pressure gauge fitting. Maybe disassemble it and make sure the membrane is freely mobile? When it is loosened so that the spring puts no pressure on the membrane, gas should freely escape...
 
RCope said:
The website doesn't say "pressure rating". I ferment around 5 psi after a few days with a blow-off. I don't naturally carbonate, but if I did, I think 15 psi is the max you'd want to go, especially since the Conical has a built in relief valve set at that level on the pressure gauge fitting. Maybe disassemble it and make sure the membrane is freely mobile? When it is loosened so that the spring puts no pressure on the membrane, gas should freely escape...
Click to expand...
There are different models with different springs, I suspect mine that goes up to 30psi is not so precise when it comes to sub 10psi pressures perhaps
 
That, and it may be a completely different mechanism despite the similar appearance. I still think all spunding valves should release pressure when they are loosened completely...
 
iandanielursino said:
How did you know the plunger was causing a leak did it make noise?
Click to expand...
Yeah very slightly, and I basically just twisted it a little bit and that seemed to keep it from leaking. It was on my first batch using it and I took it all apart again after that batch and put it back together, seems to be fine now.
 
I snagged one of the new Spike spunding valve combo rigs a year ago when they first came out. It has an integral pressure gauge and adjustable release pressure between 0-15 psig. The pressure relief has a built-in plunger that lets you immediately dump pressure manually, though it sprays water from the reservoir cup if you have to use it. There’s also a handy Gas-in Cornelius quick disconnect that lets you use bottled CO2 to pressurize the unitank.

I like it a lot (using on a fermenter right now) but wish I could set the PRV release point past 15 psig. My Unitank has a maximum rated operating pressure of 2+ BAR, and this spund was designed for Spike tanks rated to 1BAR or less. Otherwise, it’s a very nice piece of gear.
 
Brooothru said:
I snagged one of the new Spike spunding valve combo rigs a year ago when they first came out. It has an integral pressure gauge and adjustable release pressure between 0-15 psig. The pressure relief has a built-in plunger that lets you immediately dump pressure manually, though it sprays water from the reservoir cup if you have to use it. There’s also a handy Gas-in Cornelius quick disconnect that lets you use bottled CO2 to pressurize the unitank.

I like it a lot (using on a fermenter right now) but wish I could set the PRV release point past 15 psig. My Unitank has a maximum rated operating pressure of 2+ BAR, and this spund was designed for Spike tanks rated to 1BAR or less. Otherwise, it’s a very nice piece of gear.
Click to expand...

Are the spunding valves like Spike's universal on the max prv release point (SS BrewTech, BruBuilt, etc)? I'd like to add that kind of spunding valve to my converted 15G corny.
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
I had an issue when I first got my all in 1 prv and it was slowly leaking from the plunger that you push down to release pressure. I had to kinda mess with that plunger a little to get it to seal.
Click to expand...

Has anyone else had this issue with the AIO PRV? I have/had the same problem with my first PRV from Spike, I could have the dial all the way closed for max pressure and would still see CO2 escaping through the spring/plunger and bubbling out the back of the cup of starsan. I emailed Spike and they sent me an exchange, but I still run into this issue every few batches. Even if I drain the starsan so that I can hit the plunger to attempt to reset, I then have to refill the cup and hook up CO2 to see if it's fixed which I have had no luck in doing so with it attached to the tank as of yet. Super frustrating...
 
Are you leaking down to zero pressure differential? I’ve noticed that the pressure relief on mine begins to release at around 13.5 psig as opposed to the stated 15psi. The same thing happens with my Spike TC manifold device as well.

The weird thing is that both Spike devices are indicating 15 psig when they release. If I connect to bottled CO2 (I have 3 different tanks with 3 different brand regulators) with the regulator set at 15 psi, the Spike PRVs start to release at 13.5 psi as indicated on the non-Spike gauges.

I have also measured the keg/fermenter pressures with three different gauges/spunding valves and they all indicate 13.5 psi when the Spike devices release. Oddly, the Spike mounted gauges all indicate 14.5~15.0 psig when the PRVs release. There is a consistent 1.5 psig difference between the 2 Spike gauges and seven other pressure gauges I use. That includes the SS BrewTech gauge on my Unitank that is directly connected to the same blowoff pipe manifold as the Spike AIO spund/PRV.

For me, it hasn’t been a problem because when I cold crash, 13.5 psi is pretty close to the volumes of CO2 I want in my carbed beer at serving temperature. I just leave a CO2 bottle attached while crashing to maintain proper saturation.
 
Brooothru said:
Are you leaking down to zero pressure differential? I’ve noticed that the pressure relief on mine begins to release at around 13.5 psig as opposed to the stated 15psi. The same thing happens with my Spike TC manifold device as well.
Click to expand...
Yes it leaks all the way down to 0. When I set it for spunding I typically aim for 12psi so I haven't noticed how close it'll get to 1 bar for comparison.
 
FswBG said:
Yes it leaks all the way down to 0. When I set it for spunding I typically aim for 12psi so I haven't noticed how close it'll get to 1 bar for comparison.
Click to expand...
Have you tried the old "soapy water/Star San spray" around every threaded or gasketed connection point? Or are you only seeing bubbles around water in the spunding cup? Maybe disassemble the plunger and apply some keg lube around the bottom where it seats against the housing, and also on the TC fitting and gasket. Try applying more teflon tape around the threading on the pressure gauge and Gas In post. Other than that, there aren't any other places where I can imagine a leak.
 
I got the Spike AIO not too long ago, so I guess I'll have to keep an eye on mine to see about this issue. I pressure tested it before I left on vacation to see how long it would hold 10psi. I got back a week later to see it reading 0, so at best case no more than 6 days.

Redoing the test to see how long it lasts. What I done was clamped it to a closed butterfly valve, then hit it with 10psi from my CO2 tank.

EDIT: Going back down for a beer refill, I see I've dropped 2psi since making this post.

EDIT: 10pm on 6/10 and the pressure is down to 2-3psi.

Spike AIO PRV 01.jpg
 
Last edited:
How are we cleaning the lid?
I can clean everything with pretty much just a sponge but the lid takes a a green scrubby to get off the caked on mess. How are you guys going it?
 
Whalewang said:
Is the concern that a micro scratch could cause an infection or ...?
Click to expand...


That and I'd also hate to ruin that polished finish as well, which makes them easy to clean. You can use the blue pads as they are not as abrasive, but I always just used a wash cloth and plenty of soap.
 
Don't use anything abrasive on those polished surfaces. After my CF10 is drained I remove the lid and put in a bus bin in the sink. I spray down the inside of the fermenter with hot water to remove the big chunks. After that I fill it with hot water a cleaner like PBW. I also use some of that solution to clean the lid. A wash cloth works or a soft bristle brush. Wash everything real good then drain and take all the fittings off then clean those. Rinse, dry, sanitize then reassemble.
 
Green scrubby shouldn't cause micro scratches, since polymers are much softer than metals. I use a CIP ball to clean mine, but as Jag75 mentioned I don't get much on my life either.
 
Yesfan said:
I got the Spike AIO not too long ago, so I guess I'll have to keep an eye on mine to see about this issue. I pressure tested it before I left on vacation to see how long it would hold 10psi. I got back a week later to see it reading 0, so at best case no more than 6 days.

Redoing the test to see how long it lasts. What I done was clamped it to a closed butterfly valve, then hit it with 10psi from my CO2 tank.

EDIT: Going back down for a beer refill, I see I've dropped 2psi since making this post.

EDIT: 10pm on 6/10 and the pressure is down to 2-3psi.

View attachment 822037
Click to expand...
Check the CO2 post I found mine was only fiber tight.
 
Whalewang said:
How are we cleaning the lid?
I can clean everything with pretty much just a sponge but the lid takes a a green scrubby to get off the caked on mess. How are you guys going it?
Click to expand...
Interesting. I have a CF10, but only ferment 5-gallon batches. Never had anything on the lid. What size is your fermenter, and how big are your batches?
 

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