Sparging with smaller pots

[jacksonbrown]

I finally got my 48 qt MLT cooler rigged and ready to go (went to SIX stores to find 5/8" washers, turns out I didn't even need em!). I want to get going on a partial mash this weekend but think I might not have large enough pots for the sparge.
I have a 30 qt and a 14 qt. I'm thinking I would need the 30 to heat the sparge water, but then what do I use to collect? Could I just do a batch sparge with the 14 qt pot? It would mean a time lapse between the first sparge and heating up the second, but that way I could collect into the 30. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I'm very anxious to take the next step.

 

[Bobby_M]

How much grain are you trying to mash? Just as a hypothetical, let's say 8lbs of grain.

Mash: 1.25qt/lb need 10 quarts of water. Heat that in either pot.
Sparge:
First remember that you can collect in any vessel, even buckets.

You'll probably pull about 6-7 quarts out for your first runnings. Collect that in your 14qt pot and get it on the flame now.

While the mash was going, you can heat the additional 5 gallons you'll need for sparge in the 30qt pot. After you've taken first runnings, add half the sparge water, stir, vorlauf, drain into a bucket. Add the rest of the sparge, stir, vorlauf and drain into your 30qt pot. Add the wort from the bucket and boil this 5 gallons.

Using this method, you don't need to PM, you can go all grain. Just add your hops to the 30qt pot. Once the volumes drop from boil off, you can add the 1.5 gallons from the 14qt into the 30qt if you want to.

 

[reshp1]

That's what I do.
In practice, it takes 10 minutes after you dump the first batch sparge water in for the grain bed to set up (add another couple minutes for stirring after the water goes in). Then some more time for recirculation, then the actual collection. You're probably looking at 20-25 minutes between sparges anyway. Plus you could always heat the other pot on a stove in parallel (also what I do). I'd say go for it. Heck I think you've got enough to do all grain.

 

[TexLaw]

If you have a decent burner, you should have more than enough time to heat up a couple gallons of sparge water while you let the grainbed settle, vorlauf, and collect your runnings. That way, you can just use the 14 qt. pot as a HLT for sparging and collect everything in the 30 qt. pot.


TL

 

[jacksonbrown]

My only concern with going AG is that the 30 qt pot won't be big enough for certain batches. I did a full boil this weekend (first time with the 30 qt) and started w 6 gallons. That filled the supposed 30 qt pot nearly to the top. My guess was I could get maybe another 1/2 gallon in there. I don't know what that was about (it's the pot from the Bayout turkey fryer kit), so I don't think I could do even a seven gallon boil.
I completely forgot about my bucket as a collection tool!

Bobby, when you say to put the 1.5 gallons from the first running onto the flame, is that a low heat, or a full boil, and then add it to the sparged wort that has been boiling? When does the 60 min boil start on that method, after I've added the 1.5 from first run, or from the start, then add the 1.5 and keep counting. If you could just clearify that for me, that would be great, and I'll get to all graining asap! Hooray!

 

[TexLaw]

If you cannot fit seven gallons in that pot, then it isn't a 30 qt. pot. You might want to find out what you really have.


TL

 

[WoodstockBrewer]

Suggestions below are right on. I've used smaller pots (heated on stove burners) in the past to augment the strike water supply. In other words, if you have a small pot you can heat on the stove, you can use your smaller strike water tank, and as it drains, take water from the alternate supply (the pot heating to the same temp on the stove) and use it to raise the level as needed to give you sufficient sparging water.

(go by another 30qt pot would be the best suggestion of course...saves on the hassel ). Hope the brew goes well!

 

[jacksonbrown]

Box says it'sa 30 qt pot, but as I said, me thinks not. Prob 28 to the top, but close enough.

I appreciate Bobby's explanation, but I'm a bit dense. Could someone spell it out for me in a step-by-step method so I get a clearer picture? Thanks!!

 

[Bobby_M]

What I meant was that you might as well just use the smaller pot as an auxiliary boil kettle and boil your first runnings in that. The only reason to get that on the flame sooner than later is that you'll likely be able to add it to your larger pot sooner. There's no harm in boiling that wort for longer than your 60 minutes because it will remain unhopped. This allows you to go all grain without a pot large enough to boil a full 6.5 gallons.

If you have a 30qt and 14qt, you can boil maybe a total of 5.5 gallons in the 30qt and 2 gallons in the 14qt. You can definitly do all grain splitting it that way.

You'll lose about a gallon to evaporation in both pots after 60 minutes.

If I'm just confusing you more, I'll sum it up like this;

The 30qt remains your hot liquor tank until you're done sparging. Collect your runnings in buckets. Once you're done sparging, it becomes your main boil kettle and the 14qt will be used to boil down any part of your 6.5 gallons of runnings that won't nicely fit in the 30qt.

If you watch my all grain vids in the youtube link below, you'll see an example of using the kettle as the hot liquor tank. The only difference is that your boil will be split.

 

[jacksonbrown]

OK, I think I get it, let me just make sure.

--Mash as normal and run that off into bucket
--Heat sparge water with large pot, run off into bucket and small pot
--Split the boil in to 5.5 and 1.5 (ish), throw hops into large pot
--60 min boil on each, then mix down to one pot

That seem correct?

EDIT: Bobby, in rereading your last pot it appears that you are sugesting two different methods. At the top it seems I should boil just the mas run off, then add that to the sparge run. Toward the bottom, it sound like a double boil with the two seperate pots going at the same time. Is that correct, is there a difference? Both sound reasonable and do-able!

 

[jacksonbrown]

Anyone? (sorry about the bump)

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm suggesting basically the same thing in both posts. Always splitting the boil between two pots. However, if you use the smaller pot to collect your first runnings you can get it on the heat right away. It's not a big deal but it might just save you some time. You can boil this portion for 60, 80, 90 minutes. Whatever it takes to boil it down to a manageable volume.

Even if you don't start heating it right away, you'll need to collect at least some of the wort in there because you won't fit all 6.5 gallons in your bucket and be able to pick it up to get it in your larger pot.

 

[reshp1]

OK, I think I get it, let me just make sure.

--Mash as normal and run that off into bucket
--Heat sparge water with large pot, run off into bucket and small pot
--Split the boil in to 5.5 and 1.5 (ish), throw hops into large pot
--60 min boil on each, then mix down to one pot

That seem correct?

That'll work, although if you're batch sparging you want your first and second runnings roughly equal for best efficiency, so I would add some sparge water before taking the first runnings to balance the volumes out. Otherwise, you're spot on.

 

[Bobby_M]

While I agree with that if you're doing a single batch sparge, it's actually better to pull first runnings first if you're doing a split (double) batch sparge. You get the saturated wort out of the tun prior to introducing more fresh sparge. It gets me +5% efficiency.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Awesome!! Thanks you guys for the help. I just picked up all my goods to make EdWort's Haus Pale Ale as my first AG. I'll post results.

 

[tentacles]

Here's the way I do it: collect your runnings in your brew bucket/carboy. I'd reccomend the bucket unless you have a pyrex (borosilicate) carboy. Once you've got your runnings, dump the sparge from your 30qt pot into the tun, and then start heating the second sparge in your 14qt pot while the first sparge is soaking/being stirred.

You can do it without the bucket as well, especially with a 14qt pot. I can manage it with a 30qt pot and a 9qt pressure cooker, and I even step mash with steam. I mash out, and dump my boiling water from the cooker, refill and heat while the mashout sits. Collect the runnings, sparge, while the sparge is soaking, I heat the second sparge. No big deal - I do it all in the kitchen, including the full boil.

Keep in mind, standard kitchen burners do NOT like having 26+ quarts sitting on them. The support tripod on mine is pretty smooshed now. Ironically, the pot sits on it much nicer like this.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Followup question - reading my effiency. Since I'm splitting my total wort into two vessels, how do I calculate my preboil effieceny? Just take a reading from the larger pot, see if I'm low and add DME as necessary? Or do I need to take a reading from both and find the average? Thanks!

 

[tentacles]

You should have enough room to at least mix the preboil wort in your 30qt pot, then pour off a suitable amount into your smaller pot for the actual boil. I did sort of calibrate my 30qt pot by filling it with an accurate 2qt container, and marking the side at appropriate levels with a marker. It will help you a *lot* when you are trying to figure out if you've boiled off enough..

 

[Bobby_M]

You could measure the gravity from each pot and note the volumes and then use a formula or do like it says above. Combine them in the 30qt temporarily, stir, take sample, then split again. I know it's a pain but that's the rub with split boils.

You could also just let it ride at whatever gravity you have and calculate your brewhouse efficiency after the fact.

Here's the math:
(Wort #1 volume x gravity points) + (Wort #2 volume x gravity points)/ total volume.

Example: 2gal x 65grav = 130gp + 5gal x 40grav = 200gp so that's 330/7 gal = 47 or 1.047 OG.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Thanks again, guys. Calculating my efficiency after the boil isn't so much an issue (It's how I know I got 60% last time). I want to know if if I need to add any DME before the boil to achieve the correct gravity next time around. I've changed all my setting on Beersmith to 60%, so all should be fine. I just want to know for sure before I start my boil. So mixing it all sounds good to me.

 

[reshp1]

Thanks again, guys. Calculating my efficiency after the boil isn't so much an issue (It's how I know I got 60% last time). I want to know if if I need to add any DME before the boil to achieve the correct gravity next time around. I've changed all my setting on Beersmith to 60%, so all should be fine. I just want to know for sure before I start my boil. So mixing it all sounds good to me.

I would definitely mix the two parts together then. You can also then add DME equally to both halves while they're in the same vessel. Otherwise it can get pretty complicated doing weighted averages, figuring out your hops utilization, etc.