Sparging Volume

[SteveMarconi]

I live in a small apartment and usually brew full-boil 2.5 gallon batches of extract + grain. I'd like to take the half step forward and properly conduct a single temperature mini-mash by using DeathBrewer's thread as a guide. The limiting factor of my system is the volume of my boil, obviously. Under normal circumstances, I know that you can use 1.5 qt water / lb grain for the mash and 1.5x mash volume for the sparge. Given these assumptions, my 3 gallon brew kettle would only be able to handle 3 lbs of grain (5 qt mash + 7 qt sparge = 12 qt). In order to get around this, can I reduce the amount of sparge water I use? If I could use 1 gallon of sparge water, for example, I could use 5 lbs of grain (7 qt mash + 4 qt sparge = 11 qt).

Despite the full-boil, extra light LME and late extract additions, my beers have consistently turned out too dark. If i could replace half of my LME with straight grains, I know I'll be on the path to some good stuff.

 

[camus]

I would try a thicker mash, maybe closer to 1 qt/lb, it will be thick. Then sparge what you can.

 

[Yooper]

I live in a small apartment and usually brew full-boil 2.5 gallon batches of extract + grain. I'd like to take the half step forward and properly conduct a single temperature mini-mash by using DeathBrewer's thread as a guide. The limiting factor of my system is the volume of my boil, obviously. Under normal circumstances, I know that you can use 1.5 qt water / lb grain for the mash and 1.5x mash volume for the sparge. Given these assumptions, my 3 gallon brew kettle would only be able to handle 3 lbs of grain (5 qt mash + 7 qt sparge = 12 qt). In order to get around this, can I reduce the amount of sparge water I use? If I could use 1 gallon of sparge water, for example, I could use 5 lbs of grain (7 qt mash + 4 qt sparge = 11 qt).

Despite the full-boil, extra light LME and late extract additions, my beers have consistently turned out too dark. If i could replace half of my LME with straight grains, I know I'll be on the path to some good stuff.

A good way to do it is to work backwards. Instead of thinking of the sparge amount, start with your desired boil volume.

Say that's 4 gallons that you want total to end up with a 2.5 gallon batch. (Just a guess- I didn't see what your actual desired boil volume is).

Say you have 5 pounds of grain for your 2.5 gallon batch, which is reasonable. Mash with 1.25 quarts per pound (up to 2 quarts per pound is acceptable but 1.25 quarts will give you a decent sparge). So, that's 6.25 quarts for the mash. The grain will absorb about .125 gallons per pound, so you'll "lose" .625 gallons in absorption.

So, we have 1.57 gallons for the mash. Let's use 1.75 for simplicity (a tad over 1.33 quarts per pound, a nice "standard" amount) because I hate math.

1.75 gallons mash- .625 gallons (absorption) = 1.125 gallons of first runnings. That means you can easily sparge with nearly 3 gallons of sparge water.

If you went with a thinner mash at 1.5 quarts per pound, you'd mash with 7.5 quarts (1.875 gallons). 1.875 gallons - .625 gallons = 1.25 first runnings. Again, you could use up to three gallons of sparge water if you want to reach your boil volume.

The sparge amount is that variable- you can always sparge up to your boil volume. The "key" is that you don't really want more than .5 gallon sparge water per pound of grain. In this case, you would be limited to 2.5 gallons of sparge water if you don't want to risk oversparging.

So, I'd say that 5 pounds of grain for a batch would be the absolute minimize you'd want to use for 2.5 gallons batches. I'm sort of saying the exact opposite of what you are, though! When you think of the mash and sparge water, you have to remember that the mash will absorb liquid, but the sparge will not so that what you put into the sparge will come out as second runnings. The grain only absorbs the liquid once, and then it's saturated.

 

[tonyolympia]

The "key" is that you don't really want more than .5 gallon sparge water per pound of grain. In this case, you would be limited to 2.5 gallons of sparge water if you don't want to risk oversparging.

Yooper, can you help me understand why this is so? I recently read another BIAB brewer here, Mysticmead, advocating a full volume, no-sparge method whereby you mash with 3 qts per pound of grain, and then raise the temp to 170 before draining. Basically a mashout step, I guess.

What do you see as the downside of such a thin mash and sparge?

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, can you help me understand why this is so? I recently read another BIAB brewer here, Mysticmead, advocating a full volume, no-sparge method whereby you mash with 3 qts per pound of grain, and then raise the temp to 170 before draining. Basically a mashout step, I guess.

What do you see as the downside of such a thin mash and sparge?

Well, that's a "no sparge" system. I don't know much about BIAB but I know they get decent results. I've never done it, so I can't say why a no-sparge may or may not work for you.

I always do a sparge, either fly sparge or batch sparge, depending on what I'm making and what I'm doing.

 

[SteveMarconi]

That's very helpful, thanks.

Could I apply the same principal to an all-grain batch? Would something like this 2.5 gal Belgian Wit recipe work in a 3 gal brew kettle?

Grain bill: 6 lbs total of malted wheat, Belgian pilsner malt, light crystal malt, flaked wheat and flaked oats

6 lbs * 1.25 qts / 4 = 1.88 gal mash
6 lbs * .125 = 0.75 gal absorption loss
1.88 - 0.75 = 1.13 gal first-running

1.87 gal sparge (1/3 of grain bill)
1.13 + 1.87 = 3 gal total batch

If you assume 6 lbs of grain at a max 35 ppg, then 60% efficiency (what DeathBrewer quotes) would get me to an OG of 1.050 with a 2.5 gal batch, and an optimistic 70% efficiency would get me to 1.060.

Can you run a full-boil batch using this method? I figure such a light colored beer would be a good test of this method.

 

[Yooper]

That's very helpful, thanks.

Could I apply the same principal to an all-grain batch? Would something like this 2.5 gal Belgian Wit recipe work in a 3 gal brew kettle?

Grain bill: 6 lbs total of malted wheat, Belgian pilsner malt, light crystal malt, flaked wheat and flaked oats

6 lbs * 1.25 qts / 4 = 1.88 gal mash
6 lbs * .125 = 0.75 gal absorption loss
1.88 - 0.75 = 1.13 gal first-running

1.87 gal sparge (1/3 of grain bill)
1.13 + 1.87 = 3 gal total batch

If you assume 6 lbs of grain at a max 35 ppg, then 60% efficiency (what DeathBrewer quotes) would get me to an OG of 1.050 with a 2.5 gal batch, and an optimistic 70% efficiency would get me to 1.060.

Can you run a full-boil batch using this method? I figure such a light colored beer would be a good test of this method.

Sure, that would be fine. But instead of going with the fixed "1/3 of grain bill sparge", sparge with whatever you need to get to your boil volume which may be more or less than 1.87 gallons.

 

[badhabit]

I have been Batch sparging with the , sparge second runnings upto final boil volume for a while now. I have had no problems but have heard that you can over sparge and produce a tannin taste....any comments?