Sparging question?

[GIusedtoBe]

I've read FlyGuy's sticky on batch sparging but I have a few questions.

First off, with all of my AG brews, I have used kind of a poor man's manuel fly sparge by pouring sparge water over the grain bed while the wort is running into the pot. I usually get around 68% efficiency which is not great.

When batch sparging, do you guys completely drain the grain bed of the mash water/wort and then add sparge water, stir, vorlauf and then drain to the brewpot?

Do you do this multiple times or just once and why?

I've seen several people write that they have increased eff by using 185 F sparge water. Are there no tannin/astringency issues with this?

Has anybody done it the way I was doing it and then switched and gotten significantly better efficiency?

BTW I use the 10 gallon cooler mash tun w/ SS braid hose.

Thanks,
Al

 

[BierMuncher]

How fast are you draining/adding your water? Usually, fly sparging will yield higher efficiency, unless you're rushing the process.

In answer...you do a batch sparge multiple times. I used to do it three times. Simply doing it once won't yield enough wort, and it takes multiple "rinses" to get the sugars out of the tun.

I used to do the slow-dump fly sparge, then rigged this bucket above my cooler to slow the process down and allow me to walk away periodically.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-3WNUXtA64]YouTube - Fly Sparge Bucket[/ame]

 

[GIusedtoBe]

I just crack open the valve until it is barely flowing and then just dip sparge water out w/ a 2 QT measuring cup. I pour that slowly over the grain bed. I haven't timed it but it is much faster then the hour or so I've for a true fly sparge. I might have to rig something like you have.

Right now I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do it but I'm already modifying my recipes for my poor efficiency. I also had a couple that were too fermentable but I think I've got that under control.

So far the hardest thing I've been able to do is a simple 5% ABV beer. My AG's have been: 6.3, 5.1, 6.8, & 8. The 8% is a Belgian so it is about right as is the 5.1% but the other two were supposed to be around 5.6 - 5.8. If I ever get my efficiency better I'm afraid I might make rocket fuel!

Regards,
Al

 

[jagg]

GI, try Bobby M's batch sparge technique, it is a batch sparge using 2 equal amounts of sparge water, drain mash tun completely, use 1/2 the sparge water, stir, vorlough, drain, then repeat with second half of sparge water, and 185*f sounds about right, since I started using this method Im getting 78- 83% into the boiler, good luck with whatever you try

 

[BeaverBrewer]

So is it the grainbed and MLT absorbing the 15 degrees of heat?

 

[Frost]

I would like to know if the grain bed absorbs that much heat also. I wouldn't think so because the grain should already be heated to around 155~ degrees. I read in palmers book to never sparge with anything over 170 because of the tannins. Of course I don't do all grain yet, only partial mashing. That's just my two cents.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

All I have to say is I was sparging with 165º water and was getting about 75% eff. I only tried it once, but the last batch that I sparged at 180º I jumped up to 83%-84%. The hotter sparge water is all that was different.

 

[Jaybird]

I am of the SLOWER THE BETTER School.... I FLY sparge I keep 2-3" of 170 DEG F H2O on top of the grain bed and calculate the amount of H2O needed before hand and only use that amount. My Eff is around 80-87% and I calculate my recipes for 84%. I have NEVER done a batch sparge I just don’t see the advantage. Buts that’s me. I also calculate my time and only sparge for an hour. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 5 gallon batch or a 500 gallon batch you fly sparge for an hour
Cheers
JJ

 

[Bobby_M]

I get 90% efficiency batch sparging and it takes me a little less than 30 minutes to do. That's enough advantage for me but I don't want to turn this into a fly/batch debate. Things work better for different folks.

The old "sparge with 170F" gag is for fly sparging that has already had a "mash out" done to raise the grainbed to about 168 so yeah, you wouldn't want to raise it anymore at that point. Once you try 185 on top of the mash's 155 or so, you'll see how it works. I never exceed an equilized temp of 170F.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've read FlyGuy's sticky on batch sparging but I have a few questions.

When batch sparging, do you guys completely drain the grain bed of the mash water/wort and then add sparge water, stir, vorlauf and then drain to the brewpot?

Do you do this multiple times or just once and why?

I've seen several people write that they have increased eff by using 185 F sparge water. Are there no tannin/astringency issues with this?
Al

Yup, complete drain, then infuse, stir, vorlauf, drain, then infuse, stir, vorlauf, drain

Multiple time because it increases efficiency and sometimes you have to due to not enough space in the tun.

155 grain + 185 sparge will get you close to the 170 limit.

 

[ajf]

When sparging (whether batch or fly), you want to get the temperature of the sparge (the temperature of the grain bed and sparge water) up to about 168F. Go much higher than this and you can extract excessive tannins. Go much lower, and you lose efficiency because the temperature is not high enough to dissolve the sugars.
If you are fly sparging (where you only add sparge water very slowly as you drain), the best way to get the grain bed up to temperature is to do a mash out to raise the grain bed up to the required temperature before you add any sparge water. Then you need to add sparge water so that the ideal temperature is maintained.
Bear in mind that the delivery mechanism will probably cause the sparge water temperature to drop considerably.
I use a sparge arm, fed from a 5g cooler. I heat my sparge water to 185F, and pour it into an unheated cooler. This cools it down a bit as the cooler sucks out some of the heat. I then dispense the water very slowly through a sparge arm, and the water that is actually delivered to the sparge has cooled to approximately 170F which maintains the sparge temperature.
If you are using a measuring jug to transfer the sparge water, then you will almost certainly lose a great deal of heat by the time the water hits the grain.
When I started doing a mash out, and paid attention to the sparge temperature, my efficiency jumped by 10%
Batch sparging is a little different (although the same principles apply).
With a batch sparge, it is normal to drain your first runnings before adding any sparge water. This draining allows the grain bed to cool considerably.
You then need to add a batch of sparge water to raise the cooled grain bed up to the required 168F, and then drain that completely (which again causes the grain bed to cool..
With the few attempts at batch sparging that I have attempted, heating the sparge water to 185F before adding to the grain, gets the sparge temperature up to the optimum value without risking excess tannin extraction.

Hope this helps

-a.

 

[Joe Camel]

From what I've read, tannin extraction is the result of a combination of high temperature, high pH and low SG, typically below 1.010. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Batch sparging does use very hot water, I use 185F on both sparges and I'm sure my grain bed is above 170F without tannin extraction. This is because the other two pieces of the puzzle aren't present.

My 2nd sparge SG is 1.020-1.025 and the pH of the wort doesn't stray from 5.2-5.5 as the buffering capacity isn't stripped the same way it is in Fly Sparging.

 

[mandoman]

thanks, guys, for the super timely thread (for me). I was JUST thinking about my efficiency (around 70%) and what i could be doing wrong. I have been batch sparging with 170 degree sparge water and noticed that the grainbed wasn't 170 and wondering if the temp could be too low to efficiently dissolve sugars. man, I can't wait til next brew just to check how 185 will change my process.


word up.

cb