Space Heater in a Fermentation Chamber

[atoughram]

I second this statement. I have been using this heater for a year. Works great

greyghost sold me on them and mines a year old too..

 

[The_Bishop]

I'd use (and have) a lasko heater that has a thermal cutoff way before I'd put a lightbulb in a can in an enclosed space.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

I use a relatively unmodified mini-fridge (in outside non-climate controlled space) and the reptile cable heater has work great, it's long enough that even with gentle heat it can still raise the temp quickly. Not sure how it would work in a larger volume chamber, but as long as there is good insulation it should be effective. Definitely safe.

 

[brewshki]

morebeer.com has a heater that is meant to wrap around a carboy that they say you can also just leave in the ferm chamber. i don't have one, but its about only $30

 

[wardens355]

I taped a 40 watt fermwrap to the back wall of my fermentation chamber. Been working perfectly so far, and nothing gets so hot that it would cause worry. Air circulation is handled by the freezer's built-in fan that I have wired to run constantly.

These work great. They heat up but don't get too hot. I have used them, a seedling heat mat, and a Brewer's Edge space heater from Williams. They all work.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

I use the top of a food dehydrator, elevate to get air flow, connect to temp controller. Sits inside ferm box, no problems using 2+ years

This is exactly what I do as well, works great. We are not talking about generating a lot of heat either. I just built a 5' x 8' x 8' temp controlled room with 8 inches of solid foam walls and all I have for heat is the food dehydrator heater. Connected to a STC 1000. For cooling I have a duct mounted fan drawing in the nice New England cold air to handle cooling. I'll connect the AC in the spring. STC turns on the duct fan when the temp is too hot and the dehydrator heater when it's too cold. Simple.

 

[Singletrack]

I will not use a cheapo space heater (or hair dryer), because when the cheapo fan stops, the unit melts. No worries, though, because 9 out of 10 times the cheapo overheat switch will shut it off.

 

[lschiavo]

Yes, ETL certified but you are using it outside of what it was certified for. That's like saying that since it's ETL certified, you can use it outside in the rain, I mean, why not, it has overload protection.

You have no idea how many people I come across that do stuff in their homes and feel it's safe because "it works" even though it was never meant to be setup that way, electrical is the biggest one. Here is one example: They install a 15 amp rated outlet on a circuit that has a 20 amp or more breaker. Sure, it will supply electric to whatever is plugged in but when that device that's plugged into that 15 amp outlet starts pulling in more than the 15 amp plug is rated at, but less than what that circuit breaker is rated to trip at, guess what's happening to that little ole 15 amp outlet. Try explaining that to the insurance company.

Just because it works outside of what it was meant to be used as does NOT make it safe, so please stop telling people to "take a chill pill" when it comes to something that can be a serious fire hazard. There are a number of brewers who have had their garages/sheds or even worse, their homes, destroyed by fires from setting stuff like this up.

I've installed thousands of 15A receptacles on 20A circuits and I'm licenced to do so.

I don't see how using a small heater to heat a small space is beyond its intended use of heating a small space. Blindly telling people to DIY wire a light socket to a metal can is somehow safer. Is a light bulb in a tiny sealed can its intended use? I'll take my chances with a less expensive, tested, proven device thank you.

If you want o be that conservative, we shouldn't even have an electrical section on these forums. Everyone, get a second
job so you can afford Blichman gear. DIY electrical projects are going to burn your house down.

Plugging a <2A commercial product into an existing circuit is a far cry from ignorantly wiring wall outlets.

You sir seem to have a grasp of the situation. I have used my homemade temp controller with several different small space heaters. All have functioned perfectly without any fires or meltdowns. A ferm chamber is a moist environment and that takes a toll on any contraption you install to heat said space. The best bet is probably an external heat source...

 

[Singletrack]

"I used one and had no problems."

Anecdotal evidence is a weak argument. Often it is okay on a forum like this, because if enough people provide it, it starts to indicate validity. It is useful to gauge, for example, whether HSA is a real problem. If 100 people tell me it's not a problem in their experience, then I start to believe it. But let's be careful suggesting that people can rely on anecdotal evidence when the risk is burning someone's house, or injuring or killing someone.

Ever done something very risky and got away with it? Driving under the influence, perhaps? Since you got away with it, do you now think there is no risk? Does it make sense to recommend that others take that risk?

I think there is a risk to these space heaters in a fermentation chamber, and there are better alternatives. If you decide to use a space heater, at least be aware of the risk, and try to place it so it won't start a fire when something goes wrong.

 

[lschiavo]

"I used one and had no problems."

Anecdotal evidence is a weak argument. Often it is okay on a forum like this, because if enough people provide it, it starts to indicate validity. It is useful to gauge, for example, whether HSA is a real problem. If 100 people tell me it's not a problem in their experience, then I start to believe it. But let's be careful suggesting that people can rely on anecdotal evidence when the risk is burning someone's house, or injuring or killing someone.

Ever done something very risky and got away with it? Driving under the influence, perhaps? Since you got away with it, do you now think there is no risk? Does it make sense to recommend that others take that risk?

I think there is a risk to these space heaters in a fermentation chamber, and there are better alternatives. If you decide to use a space heater, at least be aware of the risk, and try to place it so it won't start a fire when something goes wrong.

So what alternative do you suggest? Something not plugged into an electrical outlet I hope. Space heater or glorified heating pad, makes no difference. I have had space heaters fail due to moisture but never a fire or meltdown. We should solve this problem.

 

[Weezy]

I think there is a risk to these space heaters in a fermentation chamber, and there are better alternatives. If you decide to use a space heater, at least be aware of the risk, and try to place it so it won't start a fire when something goes wrong.

So you need a 100 people with real world experience to maybe convince you that something is true, yet everybody is supposed to believe you simply because you've said that you *believe* there is a risk??? You've offered no evidence of a problem or experience of a problem. How does that make any sense? Help us all understand what the risks are, specifically, and the differences between one solution and the next.

You say when "the cheapo fan stops, the unit melts"??? You don't think that's what the thermal overload protection circuitry is for? Or are we talking perfect storm where everything fails? You don't think the ETL testing didn't evaluate how this thing specifically reacts in thermal overload conditions??? What do you think they do, turn it on and say *it works, ok, lets test next product"? Please people, use some common sense.

Where's the lab certifications for fermwraps and light bulbs in paint cans, inside bar fridges? I bet the thermal overload protection on those would be up to the labs' expectations.

 

[dmcman73]

I've installed thousands of 15A receptacles on 20A circuits and I'm licenced to do so.

Actually I meant it the other way around, 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.

 

[Singletrack]

So what alternative do you suggest? Something not plugged into an electrical outlet I hope. Space heater or glorified heating pad, makes no difference. I have had space heaters fail due to moisture but never a fire or meltdown. We should solve this problem.

There are 3 things I don’t like about space heaters:
1. They require a fan to blow air through them to prevent overheating.
2. They run hot. It seems they run hot enough to melt and start a fire if they are not continuously cooled by the fan. (I have not tried this.)
3. They are portable, which means they can be knocked over, pointed where they shouldn’t be, etc.

I think low wattage reptile bulbs are better, because they operate normally without a fan. They can get hot, but they can be mounted permanently in a relatively safe location.

Even better are glorified heating mats, because they don’t require a fan, and they don’t run as hot. They are portable, but usually they are securely wrapped around fermenters.

I use a waterproof heating mat. It is mounted permanently with air space on both sides. The heating mat is only 90 watts and could stay on forever without getting hot enough to start a fire. A fan blows air over it whenever it is on. I have dual temperature controllers. One maintains the temperature, and the other shuts off the power on high temperature in case the first one fails. (I travel away from my brewery for work for one or two weeks at a time, so I am cautious.)

I have considered using hot water pumped through a finned radiator. With proper plumbing, this could work and avoid heat that is plugged into an electrical outlet. For now, this doesn’t seem necessary.

 

[Singletrack]

So you need a 100 people with real world experience to maybe convince you that something is true, yet everybody is supposed to believe you simply because you've said that you *believe* there is a risk??? You've offered no evidence of a problem or experience of a problem. How does that make any sense? Help us all understand what the risks are, specifically, and the differences between one solution and the next.

You say when "the cheapo fan stops, the unit melts"??? You don't think that's what the thermal overload protection circuitry is for? Or are we talking perfect storm where everything fails? You don't think the ETL testing didn't evaluate how this thing specifically reacts in thermal overload conditions??? What do you think they do, turn it on and say *it works, ok, lets test next product"? Please people, use some common sense.

Where's the lab certifications for fermwraps and light bulbs in paint cans, inside bar fridges? I bet the thermal overload protection on those would be up to the labs' expectations.

Hey Weezy (wheezy?), take a deep breath, if you can. You may have missed my point about anecdotal evidence. After all, you’re asking me to provide anecdotal evidence to “prove” that there is a problem with space heaters.

I hope my post above has helped your understanding of the differences in solutions.

I acknowledged that there is thermal overload protection in space heaters, and I noted that I expect it to work 90% of the time. Good enough for some, I suppose. I understand your criticism of the “perfect storm” scenario where the fan stops and the overload fails. However, I expect the fan to fail. These things are cheap pieces of crap that may be manufactured in China by children who don’t get enough to eat.

I think it is common sense to consider alternatives to space heaters, and I think it is common sense that, if you use one, to try to use it in a way that won’t start a fire when the fan/overload fails.

 

[Gavin C]

I have a fermenation chamber today that is a mini fridge built out with plywood and insulation. Eventually, I'll move to a chest freezer for fermentation as the size of the other chamber is just too large for my needs these days.

I've read about ways to heat the ferm chamber and decided upon the space heater (this one). Then I started reading more and a thread that was started within the last day came up that concerned me. Is the space heater in a ferm chamber a bad idea now? The threads I read previously are old, 2010, 2011, 2012. Some did recommend the lightbulb in a can, but there was nothing swaying me one way or the other.

I just want it to be safe. I have a STC-1000 bought from Brews by Smith. I haven't hooked it up yet because I was waiting on the heater.

I realize this thread is slightly repetitive, but opinions seem to have changed over time and I'm wondering if that is due to safety issue or just finding a better way to heat a chamber.

This is my setup and I believe it to be safe. The space heater does minimal work in a room set to 70F. Its use is primarily to negate overshoot of the cooling, as I previously alluded to.

I do not share the concerns of others in this thread as to its fire hazard potential. I think as far as household items go it is way down the list in terms of its risk, particularly at this time of year; candles, tinder dry Christmas trees, a multitude of lights, gas grills etc. All of the aforementioned items are present and correct in my home.

This is a heater designed for continuous use for heating a small volume. Granted the circulation of air in a chest freezer is less than optimal but the air temperature is only ever going to be a modicum above one's set fermentation temperature. Certainly no more than 90F

 

[ubnserved]

Not to but into this conversation buuuut.... I have problems with putting space heaters in enclosed places. They fail in many ways and cause fires. First failure I see most often is on ceramic heaters. Dust collects in the intake side and does not allow enough air flow since the thermostat is on this side the heater will start melting the case before it will finally shut off. Second failure I see most often is that the heaters (any style ) are placed too close to other items. Recommended distance for objects in front of most electric heaters is 3 feet. I don't know how big your chambers are but it would have to be pretty big to accommodate this safety margin. Next thing is component failure. New heaters have lots of parts that can fail, motor, thermostat, tip sensor, overheat sensor (if it has one) switches, heating elements, power cord, outlet, circuit breaker. Add all that together and you have more risk than it is worth. Try these if you are looking to make a large fermentation chamber. I think the small one will give you a 5x5 fermentation chamber. http://www.menards.com/main/electri...tiles-120-volt-cable-kit-dft1011/p-134362.htm If not try the wraps in a well insulated chamber. Or if you want a quick install try this http://www.menards.com/main/electri...x5-peel-and-heat-mat-and-primer/p-1780374.htm. it will give you 10 Sq ft (2x5) or a 2x3 one here http://www.menards.com/main/electri...heat/mats/2x3-peel-and-heat-mat/p-1780372.htm

All I can say is be safe and better safe than sorry. I think the mat I listed can be installed under a wood floor but I didn't read it all. With a properly built and insulated room you could use this outside, in a garage or in your basement. For outside minimum insulation for the roof for upper Midwest would be r38 or so. I would do the same for the floor and 20+ for walls. I would also install a tile floors for ease of cleaning and creates a large heat sink that will stabilize your temp better. Since these products are designed to be installed in a floor the product quality and durability should be higher. I would look for reviews on them before purchasing. Good luck everyone. Remember you only get one chance to be safe, just ask me I'll tell you. I still don't remember June or July.

 

[ubnserved]

For you guys using freezers cut a properly sized piece of plywood and lay it over one of the mats. If you are going to have blow outs seal the edges with tub and shower silicone.

One additional note - seed starting mats are designed to have a few ounces per Sq inch not pounds so expect a high failure rate.

 

[Weezy]

For thermal efficiency in transfer to the actual fermenter I'd say some sort of wrap is the best option. If you have a large ferm chamber and different sized/shaped fermenters (I have 4 very different ones) and may have more than one going at once, a space heater is a better option. My Lasko has been going for probably 50 batches over three years without a problem, no dust build up, no issues. It doesn't work hard in a confined space.

 

[Hello]

The cheat freezer, likely 5 cu. ft. will be in an insulated shed. Even with insulation. I suspect the temps to drop inside. I also often have more than one carboy and my stc-1000+ can only hold onto one wrap or heat source at a time. It looks like opinions are fairly divided here.