They taste very similar. I know they say its an imperial stout but to me it doesnt resemble a stout. I have had both and I said it was Pumking brewed with debittered black malts.homebrewed505 said:
Southern Tier Pumking Clone??
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So I never got below 1.032 for my final gravity with the Ringwood yeast. I tried "rousing" the yeast by moving to a secondary, I added another starter...I tried everything I could think of. We finially bottled it after 28 days (14 days at exact same attenuation).
I can smell the grahm crackers (we used a box of them in the mash), and the overall beer seems to have a good quaility to it. (Used vanilla beans soaked in whipped cream vodka). Here's to hoping it carbs up and taste good
I can smell the grahm crackers (we used a box of them in the mash), and the overall beer seems to have a good quaility to it. (Used vanilla beans soaked in whipped cream vodka). Here's to hoping it carbs up and taste good
homebrewed505
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I just racked to secondary today. I added my spice tea and vanilla tincture. OG 1.072 FG 1.08
ABV 8.2%. Everything smells and tastes great so far. December it should be ready to drink can't wait
ABV 8.2%. Everything smells and tastes great so far. December it should be ready to drink can't wait
Bottled my pumpkin ale with the pumpkin pie extract and while it tastes ok it is not pumking. How do they achieve such a light colored beer using pumpkin in the mash? I used only 2 row and light crystal malt but the beer is very orange from the pumpkin in the mash. An orange colored pumpkin ale is not a bad thing unless of course you are trying to formulate a clone recipe for pumking which is the point of this thread.
Sbarnard80
Well-Known Member
I agree. With a beer this difficult to get straight, IMHO first try to get it to taste like it, BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE, and then see what kind of substitutions and options work without altering it - not everyone has access to the same ingredients and like others, I'm probably not going to spend an extra $10 on an ingredient when I already have something in the house I feel will work.
Sbarnard80
Well-Known Member
I love pumpking beer and I love these posts. Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I recorded the original recipe way back from page 20 and made alterations as I read through the rest of the posts. All in all, pretty minor though.
Given my love of blind taste testing, in preparation for brewing this after Thanksgiving, I decided to run to the grocery store and pull together 2 tinctures to compare before adding them to the secondary. Per some of the previous comments, I do feel like leaving them out of the boil will strengthen the flavor and allow a little bit more control. So after fermentation, but in the secondary so it has time to mellow out so I can taste it on bottling day and make some adjustments if I do feel it needs some tweaking. Granted, I won't be able to control how this final add changes over time, but all in all, seems like this process will give me the best control and the best preview of what the final product will taste like before bottling.
So I essentially am putting all the spices and flavoring into the secondary. Below is a description of the #1 option in the picture. I had some mason jars so seemed like a good use. Both are added to 4 oz of rum - thinking about the taste and what I usually associate with the different liquors, I decided to go with rum rather than vodka - I know others have used vodka but a couple of people have also mentioned rum, so figured I'd just go with my gut on this one. My Publix had the butter and nut extract and when I opened it, I must admit it smells very much like what I remember of ST's (been a few months since I had one).
I wanted a comparison of some form and found a bottle of vanilla rum in the basement, also an impetus for using rum instead of vodka. I opened it up and dang, smells even a little buttery on top of the vanilla. So my #2 is using the vanilla rum and dialing back the cinnamon (2 sticks)and upping the butter vanilla extract as well to 1/2 tsp. Also cut back the allspice to 1/4. Reason for this combination is to create a contrast for #1 and also, when I take a deep whiff of #1, before its had a chance to age, but still, it seems like its too spicy. I remember ST being more sweet and buttery with just a lite spice to it.
Not sure what I am going to do to test these, probably like others have suggested and use an eyedropper into probably a low spice pumpkin ale of some sort with a bottle of ST next to it as the standard and see which tincture option and how much best matches. Then off to the races into the secondary. Will do it again during bottling.
BTW, am planning on adding the graham crackers and libby's pumpkin (after cooking) to the strike water. Per some previous comments, want it to mix pretty well before pouring onto the grains (including the rice hulls).
Will update as I make progress. I love this experiment stuff!
Tincture #1
Added to Secondary:
• 3 tsp Natural vanilla extract
• 1 tsp Pumpkin Pie Spice
• 1/2 tbsp Ground ginger
• 3 Cinnamon sticks (broken up)
• 1/4 tsp Ground cloves
• 1/2 tsp Ground nutmeg
• 1/2 tsp Ground allspice
• 1/4 tsp. McCormick Vanilla Butter & Nut Extract
Given my love of blind taste testing, in preparation for brewing this after Thanksgiving, I decided to run to the grocery store and pull together 2 tinctures to compare before adding them to the secondary. Per some of the previous comments, I do feel like leaving them out of the boil will strengthen the flavor and allow a little bit more control. So after fermentation, but in the secondary so it has time to mellow out so I can taste it on bottling day and make some adjustments if I do feel it needs some tweaking. Granted, I won't be able to control how this final add changes over time, but all in all, seems like this process will give me the best control and the best preview of what the final product will taste like before bottling.
So I essentially am putting all the spices and flavoring into the secondary. Below is a description of the #1 option in the picture. I had some mason jars so seemed like a good use. Both are added to 4 oz of rum - thinking about the taste and what I usually associate with the different liquors, I decided to go with rum rather than vodka - I know others have used vodka but a couple of people have also mentioned rum, so figured I'd just go with my gut on this one. My Publix had the butter and nut extract and when I opened it, I must admit it smells very much like what I remember of ST's (been a few months since I had one).
I wanted a comparison of some form and found a bottle of vanilla rum in the basement, also an impetus for using rum instead of vodka. I opened it up and dang, smells even a little buttery on top of the vanilla. So my #2 is using the vanilla rum and dialing back the cinnamon (2 sticks)and upping the butter vanilla extract as well to 1/2 tsp. Also cut back the allspice to 1/4. Reason for this combination is to create a contrast for #1 and also, when I take a deep whiff of #1, before its had a chance to age, but still, it seems like its too spicy. I remember ST being more sweet and buttery with just a lite spice to it.
Not sure what I am going to do to test these, probably like others have suggested and use an eyedropper into probably a low spice pumpkin ale of some sort with a bottle of ST next to it as the standard and see which tincture option and how much best matches. Then off to the races into the secondary. Will do it again during bottling.
BTW, am planning on adding the graham crackers and libby's pumpkin (after cooking) to the strike water. Per some previous comments, want it to mix pretty well before pouring onto the grains (including the rice hulls).
Will update as I make progress. I love this experiment stuff!
Tincture #1
Added to Secondary:
• 3 tsp Natural vanilla extract
• 1 tsp Pumpkin Pie Spice
• 1/2 tbsp Ground ginger
• 3 Cinnamon sticks (broken up)
• 1/4 tsp Ground cloves
• 1/2 tsp Ground nutmeg
• 1/2 tsp Ground allspice
• 1/4 tsp. McCormick Vanilla Butter & Nut Extract
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Sbarnard80
Well-Known Member
I finally got to brewing my clone recipe last night. If it werent for the stuck sparge, would have gone fine. Third time and I have had it - top priority on my fix list.
Similar to what others have done, I baked the pumpkin in a casserole dish on 350 for 45 minutes. Added the honey on top and then added a box (15oz) of crushed graham crackers 15min in. Smelled good! I was concerned about a stuck sparge (and rightfully so as it turns out) so I thought to add the whole mess into my strike water to sufficiently hydrate it before adding to the mash. Seemed to work well. Still very watery and then just ladelled onto the grain bed with a sauce pan as usual. Even added 1/2lb of rice hulls to help filter out the stickier pieces.
Despite the stuck sparge, had good efficiency and hit my target gravity of 1.082. Used a yeast starter of WLP005 (ringwood strain) as others have suggested to get that buttery flavor.
#1 and #2 tinctures are still sitting there, waiting for transfer into the secondary. Bubbling like mad all day. Will updated next week.
Similar to what others have done, I baked the pumpkin in a casserole dish on 350 for 45 minutes. Added the honey on top and then added a box (15oz) of crushed graham crackers 15min in. Smelled good! I was concerned about a stuck sparge (and rightfully so as it turns out) so I thought to add the whole mess into my strike water to sufficiently hydrate it before adding to the mash. Seemed to work well. Still very watery and then just ladelled onto the grain bed with a sauce pan as usual. Even added 1/2lb of rice hulls to help filter out the stickier pieces.
Despite the stuck sparge, had good efficiency and hit my target gravity of 1.082. Used a yeast starter of WLP005 (ringwood strain) as others have suggested to get that buttery flavor.
#1 and #2 tinctures are still sitting there, waiting for transfer into the secondary. Bubbling like mad all day. Will updated next week.
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
Has anyone else noticed that this discussion amounts to around a hundred "Here's my Recipe" posts, and almost zero "Here's how it turned out" posts. Boo.
True... But at least this thread did not turn into a how much should I tip at dinner thread... or whatever they did in that thread that derailed it for 20 some pages haha
However, next weekend when I get home, I will post my recipe, tasting notes, pictures, and anything else I can think of. It has been sitting since 7 May. I used the Mccormick's butter and nut extract.
Side note... FINALLY I will be able to change my location to somewhere nice...
Side note... FINALLY I will be able to change my location to somewhere nice...
Sbarnard80
Well-Known Member
I'll second that. I'm in the midst of waiting for my clone attempt to do its thing and picked up some Warlock and Pumking. Tasted them side by side and they have to be using the same spicing because they both have the same buttery taste. Also agree that the Warlock doesnt really taste like a stout, more like a porter with that buttery flavor. Had a few others try them both and the same reaction. Some liked the Warlock better and others the Punking.
Sbarnard80
Well-Known Member
Back to my clone attempt. I just transferred to secondary tonight and went to add my spice tincture. I filled a few little tasting glasses with my beer and put some Punking next to them. Then proceeded to do some smell and taste tests with different amount of tincture. I had some of the mccormicks vanilla butter and nut extract also on hand and it is very very close to the main buttery smell I get from Punking.
I found that it didnt take very much of my tincture #2 to get up to the cinamonny and other spice level of Punking. And also found that I had to add some additional extract straight to my beer to start getting the right amount of buttery notes. Was difficult to get an exact ratio given the small amounts I was using and lack of an eye dropper, but it was pretty close to 1/4 tsp of extract and 1/4 tsp of tincture for 3 ounces of beer. Which equates to about 8 ounces each for 5 gallons which seems like an insane amount. There is no way I am adding that much. So I decided to start off very slow. Added in 2 ounces of each into the secondary and we'll see what that does. In a week, will take a sample and see where we are.
I found that it didnt take very much of my tincture #2 to get up to the cinamonny and other spice level of Punking. And also found that I had to add some additional extract straight to my beer to start getting the right amount of buttery notes. Was difficult to get an exact ratio given the small amounts I was using and lack of an eye dropper, but it was pretty close to 1/4 tsp of extract and 1/4 tsp of tincture for 3 ounces of beer. Which equates to about 8 ounces each for 5 gallons which seems like an insane amount. There is no way I am adding that much. So I decided to start off very slow. Added in 2 ounces of each into the secondary and we'll see what that does. In a week, will take a sample and see where we are.
So I said when I get back I would post my recipe and a pic and results... So first of all, I didn't use enough spices. I also brewed this before I saw that we are now using the spices in alcohol either in secondary/at bottling. I used the spices in the boil. I used Mccormicks butter nut extract, but it conditioned out or I didnt use enough to begin with. I brewed this at the beginning of may, and yesterday was 11 December. It finished way high but I didn't get any life out of it till I let it warm up in the glass for about 10 minutes. So...
Apeparance: Cloudy golden orange, two fingers of creamy head, dwindled down to a thick ring that stayed until the glass was empty
Aroma: Not so spicy pumpkin, bready, zero buttery crust aroma
Taste: For me it was too bitter and thin on the front (too cold I let it sit to warm up), zero spice, zero buttery crust flavor. Malty, but not sweet.
Finish: for me too bitter and bready...
Lessons Learned: Taste beer at bottling and adjust tincture and butter nut extract amount to be slightly overpowering so it conditions down after 6 months. I just blindly added spices and extract without really objectively tasting on bottling day and making adjustments. After I make the next batch, I think I am gonna take this way off course in a different direction and add lactose and serve some on nitro. I think I want creamy and sweet. Oh, and add more water to account for the absorption of the pumpkin while its steeping. Thats why my volumes didnt match up.
Batch Size: 3.5gl
Actual Batch Size: 2.9gl
Est Original Gravity: 1.077 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %
Bitterness: 27.1 IBUs
Est Color: 12.5 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.025 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.3 %
7.00 lb Pumpkin (Steeped in strike and sparge water 30 min) Flavor 2 -
7 lbs 4.3 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 70.5 %
15.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.1 %
15.1 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 9.1 %
10.1 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.1 %
5.0 oz Toasted Malt 60min @ 280 (25.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.0 %
2.1 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.3 %
1.3 oz Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 9 0.8 %
12.95 g Magnum [13.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 27.1 IBUs
1.00 Items Chiller (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 11 -
0.17 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 12 -
0.32 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 5.0 mins) Herb 13 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 mins) Other 14 -
0.66 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 15 -
0.32 tsp Allspice (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 16 -
0.16 tsp Ground Clove (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 17 -
0.16 tsp Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 18 -
1.0 pkg Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) [35.49 ml] Yeast 19 -
2.00 Items (a few drops) Butter Hazelnut extract (Bottling 0.0 mins)
Apeparance: Cloudy golden orange, two fingers of creamy head, dwindled down to a thick ring that stayed until the glass was empty
Aroma: Not so spicy pumpkin, bready, zero buttery crust aroma
Taste: For me it was too bitter and thin on the front (too cold I let it sit to warm up), zero spice, zero buttery crust flavor. Malty, but not sweet.
Finish: for me too bitter and bready...
Lessons Learned: Taste beer at bottling and adjust tincture and butter nut extract amount to be slightly overpowering so it conditions down after 6 months. I just blindly added spices and extract without really objectively tasting on bottling day and making adjustments. After I make the next batch, I think I am gonna take this way off course in a different direction and add lactose and serve some on nitro. I think I want creamy and sweet. Oh, and add more water to account for the absorption of the pumpkin while its steeping. Thats why my volumes didnt match up.
Batch Size: 3.5gl
Actual Batch Size: 2.9gl
Est Original Gravity: 1.077 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %
Bitterness: 27.1 IBUs
Est Color: 12.5 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.025 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.3 %
7.00 lb Pumpkin (Steeped in strike and sparge water 30 min) Flavor 2 -
7 lbs 4.3 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 70.5 %
15.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.1 %
15.1 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 9.1 %
10.1 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.1 %
5.0 oz Toasted Malt 60min @ 280 (25.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.0 %
2.1 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.3 %
1.3 oz Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 9 0.8 %
12.95 g Magnum [13.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 27.1 IBUs
1.00 Items Chiller (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 11 -
0.17 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 12 -
0.32 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 5.0 mins) Herb 13 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 mins) Other 14 -
0.66 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 15 -
0.32 tsp Allspice (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 16 -
0.16 tsp Ground Clove (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 17 -
0.16 tsp Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 18 -
1.0 pkg Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) [35.49 ml] Yeast 19 -
2.00 Items (a few drops) Butter Hazelnut extract (Bottling 0.0 mins)
lolznrofls
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- May 20, 2014
- Messages
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- 15
The bottle says two malts and two hopps.
Sepanik1986
Well-Known Member
Brewed this one recently. Used marris otter instead of 2 row. Had a thermometer issue and ended up at 130 for an hour. The thing was over 20 degrees off. Had to boil the sparge water just to reach the target temp and my efficiency suffered. Clocked it at 1.073 so mad at myself now.
Wow. Happy thoughts your way, dude. I know now may not be a time to give advice on the heels of your disappointment, but checking your thermometer against another before brew day starts might be something to consider. Your pain and suffering is not going to be fruitless as you have helped the rest of us, who read this, do the above thermometer check and thus save us the headache that would otherwise possibly result by trusting a lowly, outa-whack thermometer with our most wonderful of heaven's gifts: Our Beer.
Be glad in your contribution to many!
Sepanik1986
Well-Known Member
Wow. Happy thoughts your way, dude. I know now may not be a time to give advice on the heels of your disappointment, but checking your thermometer against another before brew day starts might be something to consider. Your pain and suffering is not going to be fruitless as you have helped the rest of us, who read this, do the above thermometer check and thus save us the headache that would otherwise possibly result by trusting a lowly, outa-whack thermometer with our most wonderful of heaven's gifts: Our Beer.
Be glad in your contribution to many!
It had worked a couple hours prior on another project,
Then after placing it in the mash it went on the fritz. I went and got my spare once I realized. The wort tasted pretty awesome once the issues were corrected.
You may be alright. I recently brewed an IPA with a flawed thermometer, also correcting during the mash. Temps were all over, but I hit my original and final gravities. Good luck with yours.
jtp137
Well-Known Member
What brand of pumpkin pie spice are you using for the secondary? I usually get a gritty taste after this beer ages for a couple of months i think its from low quality pumpkin pie spice
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ErieShores
Well-Known Member
I used Trader Joes pumpkin pie spice. I'll never do that again, it was closer to crumb cake than pumpkin pie.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
Cheap cinnamon tastes like bark sometimes to me. Who knows what they put in some of those spice mixes. I've heard the pampered chef pumkin pie spice is awesome in pumpkin beers from a few people (maybe even this thread) and there is a clone recipe out there for it so you don't have to buy it.
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jtp137
Well-Known Member
I put the spice in the bottling bucket instead of secondary wonder if that did it
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SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
Just for the heck of it, I'm giving the graham cracker extract another chance since it smells so similar to Pumking. GC extract tastes nasty when added to finished beer, but it's feasible that the off flavors might get fermented out if added earlier. So with this year's pumpkin beer, I'm fermenting 0.5 gal separately, and I added 15 drops of graham cracker extract. I'll report back in a couple weeks.
Had one of these:
Saw this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index5.html#post3412084
Now this is happening:
I only have a boil kettle, so I'm going to have to do this BIAB. I have 2 big muslin bags though, in case I need them. Still contemplating doing everything in the mash, or splitting up the pumpkin from the grains and doing 2 mashes, keeping the results of the first one in a fermentation bucket until the 2nd is done, then combining them.
Either way, I think I'm going to rig up some kind of pulley system underneath our outdoor stairs to let the bags drain. My last big grain bill was about 16lbs of grain, and holding that thing up full of water was a bear. Include the pumpkin to plug it up and keep it from draining well and I might fall into the kettle with the grains when my arms give out.
Pretty stoked for this.
Saw this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index5.html#post3412084
Now this is happening:
I only have a boil kettle, so I'm going to have to do this BIAB. I have 2 big muslin bags though, in case I need them. Still contemplating doing everything in the mash, or splitting up the pumpkin from the grains and doing 2 mashes, keeping the results of the first one in a fermentation bucket until the 2nd is done, then combining them.
Either way, I think I'm going to rig up some kind of pulley system underneath our outdoor stairs to let the bags drain. My last big grain bill was about 16lbs of grain, and holding that thing up full of water was a bear. Include the pumpkin to plug it up and keep it from draining well and I might fall into the kettle with the grains when my arms give out.
Pretty stoked for this.
That's the recipe I did last year and it's not anything like Pumking.Had one of these:
Saw this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index5.html#post3412084
Now this is happening:
I only have a boil kettle, so I'm going to have to do this BIAB. I have 2 big muslin bags though, in case I need them. Still contemplating doing everything in the mash, or splitting up the pumpkin from the grains and doing 2 mashes, keeping the results of the first one in a fermentation bucket until the 2nd is done, then combining them.
Either way, I think I'm going to rig up some kind of pulley system underneath our outdoor stairs to let the bags drain. My last big grain bill was about 16lbs of grain, and holding that thing up full of water was a bear. Include the pumpkin to plug it up and keep it from draining well and I might fall into the kettle with the grains when my arms give out.
Pretty stoked for this.
ErieShores
Well-Known Member
^ I approve this message.
So what did you find was different?
Although it would be cool to make an exact clone, my process is far from perfect and even if the recipe was spot on, my brewing would not be. I'm aware it'll be different, so I'm just hoping for a great beer. Would you say it fits that definition?
Although it would be cool to make an exact clone, my process is far from perfect and even if the recipe was spot on, my brewing would not be. I'm aware it'll be different, so I'm just hoping for a great beer. Would you say it fits that definition?
Too many spices and not enough pie crust character.
I was going to say that recipe was debunked. There is no actual clone.
I read all the posts. The garham cracker flavoring has been disproved and stated it causes a metallic flavor.
I had pumpking before, and I thought it was awful. But I LOVE schlafly pumpkin. I ended up getting some schlafly pumpkin already this year, and wow.... Was it ever bad (only because it's still very young and needs to age) it was super hot and alcoholic tasting, so I put it in the cellar with plans to open another at thanksgiving.
Is it possible I drank the pumpking too young? It was purchased pretty much the day it released. Maybe I should give it another shot and let it age.
Roundhouse
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2014
- Messages
- 135
- Reaction score
- 17
I just tried this beer. Actually I'm drinking it as I type this. It is by a large margin the most horrible pumpkin beer I've ever had. I honestly don't understand the taste appeal. I definitely get the graham cracker but really nothing else. I'm not sure how to describe this beer. I guess I'd say golden to light amber in color. Clear with no head retention. Low carbonation. Medium bodied (if I'm being generous). An initial hint of bitterness that doesn't linger with zero hop aroma or flavor. Aroma of burnt graham cracker with a flavor of burnt graham cracker. No perceptible pumpkin or traditional pumpkin pie spices. Would not know this is a pumpkin beer without the label. Overall impression is one of soggy graham crackers. Cloning this beer should focus entirely on recreating liquid graham cracker.
Try a Saint Arnold Pumpkinator instead.
Try a Saint Arnold Pumpkinator instead.
