Sour IPA(

[leighbooth]

Looking for some tips on brewing a barrel aged sour IPA.
Could I use a regular IPA recipe, holding back on the dry hops. Start fermenting with ale yeast, transfer to barrel and finish with Brett? Then dry hop late, after a few months?

Cheers
Leigh

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Are you looking for sour, or funky?
Brett doesn't make beer sour (it can make it 'tart' by producing acetic acid, but isn't truly 'sour'). Souring in beer is through lactic acid production by Lactobacillus or Pediococcus.

 

[chumpsteak]

What he said, and lactobacillus dies in the presence of hops and pedio takes forever to sour. The only way to make a sour IPA is to kettle sour with lacto and then do your boil and hop additions after the wort is already sour. You can then ferment with Sacc or Brett of your choice. Transferring to a barrel at that point is just going to add oak flavor and the longer it sits the less hop flavor you will have. Sour IPA isn't a great idea, and barrel aged sour IPA is a worse idea....IMO.

 

[lump42]

One option to retain the hop flavor and get the barrel character. Make a small batch of the ipa base recipe to the same IBU and then age it on oak. Then make the a big batch, kettle sour and add hops. Ferment then blend the two back together.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Tying together wheat everyone said, here's how I'd suggest to make a "barrel-aged sour IPA" (kettle sour, no funk):

• Mash and perform a short boil, 10 minutes, no hops.
• Chill under 90°F, leave it in the kettle.
• Optional: pre-acidify to pH 4.0-4.5
• Pitch L. plantarum
• Cover the kettle with plastic wrap or foil and leave it somewhere warm (above 65°F) for a couple days.
• Boil as normal, adding hops.
• Chill, transfer, and add oak chips.
• Ferment, dry hop, and package as normal. (Rehydrate dry yeast if applicable)
• Optional: add oak tea and/or spirits of your choice at bottling if it hasn't extracted enough "barrel" flavor by that time.

Blending is fine too if you'd rather go that route.
If you want Brett there are ways to do that as well.
Cheers

 

[leighbooth]

I’ve kettle soured before, but I wanted to go the barrel route. I get that hops will kill the lacto. I guess that maybe what I’m looking for isn’t a funky IPA per-se. What I think I’ll do is make a barrel aged saison - and then dry hop with Nelson, before Kegging. I’ve tried something similar and I really enjoyed it. So I guess I’m making a hopped saison, not a sour/funky IPA

 

[RPh_Guy]

All right so you some options for the method:

Traditional process

• Make your beer with Saison yeast. Use a low amount of hops, like 0.2-0.4 oz per 5 gallon.
• Transfer the beer to the barrel.
• Pitch Brett and Pedio. (+/- Lacto)
• Wait 4-12 months for souring and funk.
• Optional: add dregs.
• Dry hop and package.

Accelerated process (better for fresh barrels)

• Make your wort without hops
• Co-pitch Saison yeast and Brett from a starter (Brett starter takes 1-2 weeks)
• After a couple days pitch L. plantarum
• Optional: add glucoamylase to achieve stable gravity quickly for bottling.
• Transfer the beer to barrel.
• Wait until the desired oak and funk level is achieved (within 1-3 months)
• Optional: dry hop at any time to halt souring.
• Optional: add dregs.
• Dry hop and package.

Cheers

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Good info in this link. I did Method 2 and it was a huge hit. Method 3 sounds like what you may have in mind

https://byo.com/article/hoppy-sour-beers/

 

[Dgallo]

My only advice to you would be to keep the ibus of the finished beer extremely low. Sour/low ph and bitterness are very conflicting flavors and leave this flavor as if you chewed Tylenol. Even hot whirlpool temps can add enough bitterness to show this confliction. I would just do a 3-4 oz whirlpool at 150*f and dryhop the hell out of it.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Good info in this link. I did Method 2 and it was a huge hit. Method 3 sounds like what you may have in mind

https://byo.com/article/hoppy-sour-beers/

Method #1 won't produce a sour beer. No way in hell would OYL-605 overcome 3oz of hops.
Method #2 won't produce a Saison. (It's a kettle sour with Brett primary.)
Method #3 is the traditional process I described above. (Except with 0.75oz of hops in their recipe, you're looking at probably 6-14 months to sour with Pedio from a yeast lab.)

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Method 2 isn't a Saison. Method 1 is the Sasion and he says its more Saison than sour.
Method 3 he states that they aged it for 1 year

 

[leighbooth]

Awesome - thanks guys
Cheers.

 

[couchsending]

Hudson Valley and Rare Barrel are both making similar beers. They’re blending a barrel aged sour beer into an IPA right before packaging. Honestly this is the best way to do it. Dry hopping at low pH can produce some rather undesirable flavors and aromas. As far as I know the “sour” beer they’re blending in doesn’t have Brett, and has a similar FG to the IPA. That way there is no issues with refermentation when the two beers are blended together.

Make two separate beers then blend a portion of them together until you hit your desired pH/acidity. You have to go really really big on the dry hop on the IPA in order for the hops to come through in the finished beer. Once you blend the acid beer in the hop profile goes way down.