Souped up Mash-Tun

[SammyJsCO]

I'm working on a graduate school project for an entrepreneurship class and am hoping you all can help me with some feedback on my idea and a couple of random questions.

Product/Problem Description - Like many, I have a homemade mash/lautertun from an old cooler. This holds temperature pretty well during brewing - I lose 2-5 deg. F during a 60 minute mash. I'm a batch sparger so when I drain the initial wort to make room for the mash it's backfilling with room temperature air which ends up pulling my grain down to about 120F (measured) before adding the sparge water. This makes it impossible for big beers and difficult for normal/small beers to hit the 170 sparge temperature. What I want to do is add a heating element, a heat spreader, and a sensor/controller to keep heating the air above the mash. I don't want to go full RIMS/HERMS (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198386) I just don't want to lose this temperature to increase the consistency of my product and shorten the brew time a bit by not having to heat the wort as far.

My questions if you're still reading...
1. Do you have this problem? Do you see any problems with the idea or other things this product should do?
2. Is this something you would buy? I'm considering selling it as a DIY kit to upgrade existing systems and as a full system.


I'm very grateful for any and all feedback. Even if you think this is a terrible idea please just tell me why .

Thank you!

 

[day_trippr]

Cheers! (This could get interesting )

 

[SammyJsCO]

No thoughts from the community? I'm surprised... I see really long threads on far simpler things.

If anyone has feedback, I'd still be grateful for it!


For reference, for the people who make the jump from extract to all grain, the most typical time is between 4 and 8 brews. Per the AHA 2014 survey, average LHBS's report 8-9 visits per year from an average customer meaning that most people who do make the switch to all-grain do so within the first year as a brewer. Obviously generalizing a lot but it's interesting perspective to know what "average" is in such a widely varying topic.

 

[day_trippr]

I'm as surprised as you are

I fly sparge so I don't have my own measurements that would correlate, but taken at face value I am surprised at your findings wrt bed temperature dropping by presumably a good 30°F by draining the first runnings - and that's assuming you didn't do a mash out.

Seems like a lot considering the btus that were contained in the bed mass vs the mass of the air pulled into the tun.

In any case, before you try to solve this problem, you might find this article interesting....

Cheers!

 

[SammyJsCO]

No mash out... I drain the sweet work and then add the sparge water and let it hang out for another 15-30 minutes at elevated temperature. My mounted thermometer shows between 120 and 125 in the grain bed before adding batch sparge water.

 

[day_trippr]

[link added to my earlier reply]

If that temperature drop is consistent from batch to batch, could you just adjust your batch sparge temperature accordingly?

Cheers!

 

[Jwin]

Perhaps a stainless false bottom/hot plate combo?
Make it 110v and low amperage as it is only for maintaining temperature.

 

[Bobby_M]

No mash out... I drain the sweet work and then add the sparge water and let it hang out for another 15-30 minutes at elevated temperature. My mounted thermometer shows between 120 and 125 in the grain bed before adding batch sparge water.

Ok, here's a comment. It's a solution looking for a problem. Boost your sparge water to 185F. Also, you don't need to wait 15-30 minutes after you vigorously stir in your sparge water. Take 3 minutes to stir well, vorlauf and drain it.

Adding a heating contraption for incoming air isn't really in the spirit of the ease of batch sparging. Not only is it something I wouldn't buy. It's something I wouldn't use even if it were free.

 

[atom]

Ok, here's a comment. It's a solution looking for a problem. Boost your sparge water to 185F. Also, you don't need to wait 15-30 minutes after you vigorously stir in your sparge water. Take 3 minutes to stir well, vorlauf and drain it.

Adding a heating contraption for incoming air isn't really in the spirit of the ease of batch sparging. Not only is it something I wouldn't buy. It's something I wouldn't use even if it were free.

I agree. seems like you are over complicating things.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

With batch sparging, you're really just rinsing the extra sugars out. Add your water, stir the bajeezus out of it, let it sit a couple minutes while you prep to start a vorlauf, then drain. Plus, you can already be heating your initial runoff to save a bit more time while playing around with your sparging...


Batch sparging is meant to be simple. Keep it simple. Lol!

 

[Stillraining]

No its not a problem... And I would go to fly sparging before complicating batch sparging with gizmos and gadgets. Personally I dont see a market for something like this. But who knows 5 years from now it could be all the Buzz.
Design It, build it and get your degree or whatever it is your after and move on, or test the waters marketing it ...stranger things have happened.

 

[mongoose33]

There was a recent brulosophy exbeeriment that shows batch sparging with cool water was not materially different in outcome than sparging with hot water. Since all you're doing is rinsing off residual sugars, and the grain will raise the temp of the sparge water, it seems to be not a problem if temps drop during sparging.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/11/sparge-temperature-pt-1-standard-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

Now, it was only one exbeeriment, and the OG was slightly higher for the hot sparge versus cool sparge, but the final result was not perceptible.

As for me, there is somewhat of an advantage to heating sparge water--what goes in is hot, what comes out is hot, and that shortens the time to boil. Brewed on Sunday, and I just tried to get the sparge water to 165 or so, without obsessing over the exact temp. Worked fine.

 

[kh54s10]

I always heat my sparge water to 168 or so. I don't take the temp of the grain after first runnings and never change the temperature of the sparge. I am usually within a point or two of the predicted OG.

It doesn't make much difference if the air in the tun is 30 degrees in the winter or 80 degrees in the summer.

As stated this is a solution looking for a problem....

Good luck with your project. I am sure something could be made. Whether there is a market for something like that???? I don't think so.

 

[IslandLizard]

Dead horse...

Opening your tun and stirring for a few minutes is what drops your mash a few degrees while it's exposed to the colder surroundings. Counteract by using strike or sparge water that's a few degrees hotter.

There is no need or advantage for an embedded mash heater in that scenario. Direct or indirect heated mash kettles, RIMS, or HERMS setups are the next logical step.

 

[SammyJsCO]

Thank you for the input/feedback! I know this isn't the hugest problem, maybe not worth solving, but I did need something for my class/project. I still will probably prototype just to see.

Big takeaway is that it would need to be super simple to install and use. That's helpful!

Prost!

 

[brewdude22]

Or free! Honestly if I wanted to buy more equipment to make my brew house more efficient. I would go with a heated mashtun and a chugged pump that way you can maintain your heat through out your mash and also boost the heat before you run your wort off. I hear my mash to 170 degrees F and sparge the same to get that sugar out of the grain bed. Until you are able to maintain the heat in your mashtun you will have this problem and if your system is week enough that cold air from the top effects your temp, then you need a bigger scale of improvements.

 

[aarong]

I agree that it's not necessary. If you want to try something i would pipe in hot air from a hair dryer or a high temp heat gun. Run some experiments. Good luck!!!