Something weird.. electric shock.. help!!

[terrenum]

Ok. Thanks for your input everyone. I will have an electrician come and install a GFCI hot tub device on the system.
Now in order to minimize costs I want to figure out as much as possible before he comes here and charges me 100$ per hour
Here is my entire setup. A 50A 240v plug straight out of the electrical panel.
Then I have a 35' long power cord that goes all the way to the controller on which I connect my 2 kettles.
Where should the GFCI hot tub box go? Can I install it between the plus and the controller? That would probably be the cheapest option as the electrician could simply cut the wires of the cord and install the box. What do you think?

 

[terrenum]

Additional picture

 

[z-bob]

How can I ground the element? High Gravity Brew (where I bought the system) cut a small piece of the plastic on the element and drilled a small hole at the base of the element. I am not equipped to do this. HOw about simly extending the wire to the kettle handle? Would that work?View attachment 546717

That will almost work. You need a more secure connection -- like a "split bolt connector" on the handle. Or you can drill a hole right under the rim and use a stainless steel bolt with lock washers and connect to that. Also make sure you have a secure connection at the other end (I can't see what's under that tape)

 

[fragged]

I have now bought a proper brewing element with an element casing and a ground on the element. In other words it is back to its original state. I do not have a GFCI plug but didn't have any the numerous other times I brewed beer.
I will have an electrician come and check it out even though it's delaying things even further
Thanks for your response

Good to hear.

Plow through some turkey in the mean time, happy thanksgiving!

 

[processhead]

Ask your electrician to wire the spa panel between the breaker in your panel and your 240 volt receptacle.

 

[The_Bishop]

That connection to your kettle heating element is super sketchy. You should be using 10-3 SJOOW power cord.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Just a minor point. In the original post, Terrenum says he was electocuted. Generally speaking, folks who are electrocuted are much too dead to brew beer. Just sayin'.

However, this thread has definitely made me rethink my power supply. Everything is right except no GFCI protection. I'll be installing a GFCI breaker before I brew again. Thanks all, for perhaps saving my life.

 

[lschiavo]

Just a minor point. In the original post, Terrenum says he was electocuted. Generally speaking, folks who are electrocuted are much too dead to brew beer. Just sayin'.

However, this thread has definitely made me rethink my power supply. Everything is right except no GFCI protection. I'll be installing a GFCI breaker before I brew again. Thanks all, for perhaps saving my life.

I know and understand proper grounding. It's my job. The first thing I bought for my electric brewery was a GFCI breaker.

 

[NerdBrewer22]

Those guys at High gravity beer. I'm not very impressed but what they sold ya [emoji848]. I did Herms system too with my brother and I made him realize how important was the GFCI in that project !

 

[lschiavo]

Those guys at High gravity beer. I'm not very impressed but what they sold ya [emoji848]. I did Herms system too with my brother and I made him realize how important was the GFCI in that project !

It's "buyer beware" like just about everything else. They are not responsible for what you plug it into. If I were building them, I wouldn't want that on me either. People do some very creative things with electricity... Let's us be safe around here.

 

[rwc_617]

As stated in many other threads, a circuit breaker protects your STUFF against fire by shutting down when there’s too much current. A GFCI protects YOU against electrocution by shutting down if the return current doesn’t equal the supplied current; if there is current missing, it might be going through YOU to the ground instead of returning to the power company! I’m thankful you were only shocked and not truly electrocuted. Sounds like you’re on a good path with your electrician and spa panel.

 

[D-west]

What in the world is up with your element and main power cords?? Electrical tape and expandable braided sheathing covering the wires?

No offence man, but you are practically begging to get shocked. Electrical is not something you should ever cheap out on. You spent $1000 on a controller that protects its self from catching fire by use of breakers, you need to invest in your life, and get a GFCI breaker in your main house panel that feeds the plug you are running off of, or a GFCI extension cord. I also highly recommend you go get some proper 10/3 SJOOW cable to run your panel and elements.

 

[ZmannR2]

I'm fairly certain there isn't a plug-in 220v GFCI unless you make one out of a spa panel.

They make an inline 220v GFCI extension cord

That would work.

http://www.gfcistore.com/30-amp-inline-gfcis.html

 

[processhead]

While that would work, I have a problem with using a safety device that is easily taken out of the circuit if there is a problem with it.

It just makes it too easy to operate the brewing panel without it if there is a problem with the extension cord GFCI or nuisance trips due to panel or wiring problems with the equipment

A hardwired GFCI forces you to find and fix the faults rather than just jumper around the GFCI protective device.

Plus the fact that its not exactly a bargain at $150.

 

[terrenum]

I ended up buying a new Hot Tub Siemens Panel 220V 50A. I paid 115$ which is a really good price here in Quebec for a 220V GFCI breaker.
I also have an element casing with the element properly grounded and finally installed a rubber mat on the floor. I guess I did everything in power so I could still brew for a long time

Thank you all for your input.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm glad to hear you got the GFCI installed. Not to keep throwing more things at you but after looking at your photos. You have some very serious safety concerns.

You have the heating element wired with romex cable. Romex is NOT safe at all in this application. Romex is not flexible nor is it made for exterior (outside of walls) use. You have connections entering equipment without supports to protect the wire from breaking.

You need service wire (sjoow) which is flexible and oil/water resistant. You are betting your life on .03 thick piece of romex insulation which I can strip off with my fingernails. I would NOT brew on this equipment until you have wired the entire brewery correctly. 240V at 30a will kill you and not even trip the GFCI. You need to have a good understanding of what equipment you have before you plug it in.

 

[processhead]

I did not catch the Romex in your picture. I second everything that LarMoeCur said, and would add that using solid conductor wire to make your connection to the element is dangerous because the connection is almost guaranteed to work loose over time and flexing. Loose connections with that level of current passing through them will overheat.

 

[z-bob]

Where did y'all see Romex cable? I see some kind of 3-conductor cable (or bundle of wires) that I can't identify. And it might be stranded wire, especially if it's 8 gauge. Sure doesn't look jacketed or armored, tho'.

Just curious.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I think the take away is, if it looks iffy from a thousand miles away, it probably looks worse up close.

I wire my own stuff, but I have friends in the business who look at everything I build before I light it off. If I didn't, I'd bite the bullet and take it to a real electrician and pay for a safety inspection.

Most people just love talking about their job, I know I do. Ask good questions while you are paying for an electrician's time, and you can learn at lot really fast.

Please, Terrenum, get this thing checked by a pro. We all hate funerals.

 

[terrenum]

I had the system checked by the electrician when he came. The wires are flexible cables 8 gauge with braided sheathing

 

[ancientmariner52]

Good for you. I just worry, ya know

 

[itsnotrequired]

the wiring may not look pretty but i'm not seeing any glaring issues. the ground taped to the handle was the biggest concern, the new element connector is a much better and safer.

 

[LarMoeCur]

That sure looks like romex to me. I've never seen service wire with wrinkly insulation. Ever see an extension cord with wrinkly insulation? Ever see a plug not have the protective insulation inside the housing? Yeah, me either.

Unsupported wires with only one layer of insulation hanging from 240v equipment in a wet environment what isn't glaring? Ball of electrical tape wrapped around a heating element. Nope nothing glaring!

Y'all must sell coffins.

It's not my life to gamble with. Brew away! I'll be following the obituaries in your area. Maybe able to pick up some cheap brewing gear or a partially burned down summer home.

Yes I'm being sarcastic for a reason. You have already been shocked once if you think GFCI will save you. You are dead wrong.

 

[processhead]

On second look up close, it doesn't look like Romex to me. That said, the braid doesn't offer much in the way of physical protection for the the conductors within.
I hope the OP doesn't take the criticism the wrong way. I think everyone here wants our brewing community using safe equipment.

 

[terrenum]

On second look up close, it doesn't look like Romex to me. That said, the braid doesn't offer much in the way of physical protection for the the conductors within.
I hope the OP doesn't take the criticism the wrong way. I think everyone here wants our brewing community using safe equipment.

Thanks Processhead; let’s just say I much more appreciate your constructive feedback

 

[LarMoeCur]

On second look up close, it doesn't look like Romex to me. That said, the braid doesn't offer much in the way of physical protection for the the conductors within.
I hope the OP doesn't take the criticism the wrong way. I think everyone here wants our brewing community using safe equipment.

I really hope my sarcasm is not taken the wrong way. I think we are all trying to prevent a catastrophic event i.e. fire or injury. Brewing should be fun and worry free! I’d worry way too much if I ever got shocked by my setup.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Got called in to the shop this morning. (These three hour days are killing me. I'm retired, dammit.)

While I was there, a co-worker was found unconcious by his machine. My first thought, probably because of this thread, was electric shock, is anyone else in danger? Turned out he just forgot to take a pill this morning.

The point is, we're all trying to keep each other safe. No way should anybody be offended by that.

 

[GParkins]

@terrenum , it looks like you have single conductors run through braided loom going through that Skintop fitting, The cable type needs to be SJOOW or STOW (those letters will be printed on the outer jacket), with the jacket going into the enclosure prior to stripping down to the individual conductors. You may need a larger Skintop to get it to fit...don't cheat. Also, you should not need electrical tape anywhere in your installation. If you feel you do need it, it's likely that you have an equipment mismatch or you are not using the correct assembly technique. There are a lot of experienced guys here on HBT that will be happy to advise you on equipment and technique. It's better to ask questions that some may think make you look stupid than it is to not ask the questions and remove all doubt.

Also, if you are feeding your rig from a 50A spa panel, your feed cable needs to be 6AWG minimum, not 8AWG. Assuming you've gotten rid of the ground wire hack to the kettle handle (!), the only serious glaring problem is those single conductors running through braided loom. I think you'd do well to replace that stuff before your next brew.

Before you brew again, I'd also run a continuity check with a meter, with one probe attached to the spa panel ground, and the other probe touched to everything metal in your rig. That means all the pump housings, the kettles, the enclosures, etc. Unless you get a reading at or very close to zero Ω at every test point, keep looking for a problem.

Once you've replaced that braided loom cabling and confirmed your system is properly grounded with a meter, you should be good to go.

 

[fragged]

@terrenum , it looks like you have single conductors run through braided loom going through that Skintop fitting, The cable type needs to be SJOOW or STOW (those letters will be printed on the outer jacket), with the jacket going into the enclosure prior to stripping down to the individual conductors. You may need a larger Skintop to get it to fit...don't cheat. Also, you should not need electrical tape anywhere in your installation. If you feel you do need it, it's likely that you have an equipment mismatch or you are not using the correct assembly technique. There are a lot of experienced guys here on HBT that will be happy to advise you on equipment and technique. It's better to ask questions that some may think make you look stupid than it is to not ask the questions and remove all doubt.

Also, if you are feeding your rig from a 50A spa panel, your feed cable needs to be 6AWG minimum, not 8AWG. Assuming you've gotten rid of the ground wire hack to the kettle handle (!), the only serious glaring problem is those single conductors running through braided loom. I think you'd do well to replace that stuff before your next brew.

Before you brew again, I'd also run a continuity check with a meter, with one probe attached to the spa panel ground, and the other probe touched to everything metal in your rig. That means all the pump housings, the kettles, the enclosures, etc. Unless you get a reading at or very close to zero Ω at every test point, keep looking for a problem.

Once you've replaced that braided loom cabling and confirmed your system is properly grounded with a meter, you should be good to go.

Agree with everything mentioned here, good catch on the continuity check. Something I would do subconsciously, but may fail to mention as a reminder for others.

To OP, to elaborate if needed, the sjoow/stow recommendation makes sure your connection cables stay flexible, while also remaining water tight. It's also engineered to make sure the insulation isn't too thick for the load causing excess heat, resistance, then more heat and eventually a fire and/or short. Heat is less the reason than flexibility here, more of an added bonus to using the right cable.

Those same insulation/heat issues are why the SPA panel to control box feed was recommended to be moved from 8 to 6. Too small can overheat and burn. This should be routed through the appropriately sized conduit as well. I like the flexible plastic conduit for this, using liquid tight connections at the boxes.

Finally, the continuity check makes sure your GCFI/circuit protection is going to function properly in case of an issue anywhere it could be dangerous on the system (in other words, in anything metal on the system).