Someone Please Set Me Straight about Conditioning.

[TRainH2o]

I am following the current trend of letting my beer sit in the primary for an extended time, rather than racking to a secondary. So far I have brewed only Ales.

My first two brews sat in the bucket for 4 weeks.
Racked to a keg.
Purged the O2 with CO2 and chilled in the refrigerator.

My first brew, German Amber Ale from AHBS, never really tasted right. It wasn't bad but it just wasn't smooth. My local club members described it as having a green apple taste. My second brew, a Pale Ale, has a bit of that same taste but not as bad. It's pretty bitter so the hops may be masking more of that taste. So now I have brew number 3 fermenting. It's a Belgian Strong Ale, Chimay Grand Reserve Clone.

So my question is this: Am I making a mistake by cooling the beer once it's kegged? Should I have kegged and left it at room temperature for more time?

There should not be a problem with sanitation. I am fairly particular about how I do things. The fermentation temp may have gone a bit high on my first brew but I watched the Pale Ale and it was always 66˚- 68˚ until it was racked to the keg. Thoughts? I am making drinkable beer, just not great beer.

 

[chode720]

No your aging/conditioning is fine. I go 3-4 weeks in primary and then straight to the keg. The kegs is then purged of oxygen, put in the fridge, chilled and carbonated. No need to age warm in the keg.

My only thought on the off flavor is fermentation issue. 66-68 is a great temp to ferment an ale at. Are you making a starter and aerating your wort well? If not, both of these help to make healthier yeasts and better fermentation.

 

[marubozo]

After 4 weeks in the primary there's usually nothing wrong with going straight to keg and chilling, but at the same time you are going to slow down any additional conditioning at fridge temps. When you bottle and carb naturally, you're basically forced to leave the beer for another few weeks at room temp so it will carb up, which also conditions the beer at a relatively fast rate. So if you bottle, you're really doing 4 weeks primary + 3 weeks bottle conditioning. If you force carb in the kegerator after just 4 weeks you're missing out on those three extra weeks of conditioning time which may give your beer a slightly younger taste than you expected. The beer still conditions over time, but it does so MUCH slower at say 40 degrees than 70.

A lot of people will treat their kegs like bottles and once transferring to the keg, purge with CO2 and get a seal on the keg and let it sit at room temp for a couple of weeks to condition further before moving it into the kegerator.

 

[TRainH2o]

With my first two brews I did not make starters. I did make one with my Chimay Clone and I have one ready for my next batch, a Nut Brown Ale.

 

[TRainH2o]

I guess I should give it a few weeks in the keg at room temp. Thanks.

 

[ChshreCat]

Green apple sounds like acetaldehyde to me.

 

[marubozo]

Yep, and acetaldehyde is a good sign the beer needs more time to mature.

I'd say giving it a couple weeks in the keg at room temp, or at least 60-70 degree range is a good start. You can certainly put the keg into the fridge and let it condition, but don't expect it to taste the same 3 days after force carbing it as it would sitting in the fridge for a month. Especially if it's a bigger beer, it can certainly help to give it more time.

 

[TRainH2o]

Well, at this point should I just let my Pale Ale sit in the cooler at 38˚ or should I let the keg warm up and shake the yeast into suspension? I'm pretty sure that it is still partly suspended. The beer hasn't cleared yet.

 

[hairy]

The beer is just young and needs time to condition. As for starters, I have never made a starter for my ales when I use a fresh yeast. For reused yeast, depending on how long i have kept them, i may not do a starter as well. They all turn out fine.

Cooling after kegging should not be a problem I guess but eve when chilled, condition continues to take place to change the taste of the beer over time.

 

[amh0001]

I'm thinking yeast health. If your first two were liquid yeast, and you did not make a starter, then you probably didn't pitch enough yeast. Having a nice healthy starter makes a world of difference.

If you used dry yeast you dont need to make a starter.

Go to www.Mrmalty.com

Use the calculator, and read the section on yeast starters.

Make sure you are pitching the proper amount of yeast, and at the right temp: no more than 5 degrees from your target temp.

If your making bigger beers then you might have to condition for even longer. As far as keeping your beer in the keg out of the fridge, you shouldn't have to. Let that beer sit in your fermenter until it tastes good. If you are using a plastic fermenter then transfer to a secondary if it needs further aging.

^read more about this here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/aging-beer-facts-myths-discussion-84005/

I leave my beers in primary for 3 then bottle for for 3-4 weeks. I brew ales at 66-68 degrees. after about 10 days I move it out of the fridge, and into my room where it sits at 69-70 for the remaining 2 weeks.

When it comes to temp, its better to start a little lower and once its done with the main fermenting either keep it there, or let it raise a degree or two to clean it self up. (-70)

"ACETALDEHYDE (ALSO ACETYLALDEHYDE)
Characteristics:
- Aroma and flavor of green apples or freshly cut pumpkin.
- Some compare it to grass, green leaves and latex paint.
- Excess acetaldehyde produced in a high refined sugar wort can cause yeast to produce acetic
acid with contributes to the cidery character.
- Acetaldehyde is typically inappropriate in any style, though Budweiser deliberately uses
Beechwood chips to prematurely flocculate the yeast to give 6-8 ppm acetaldehyde in the
beer.
- Salvator & EKU-28 also display acetaldehyde, though in lower amounts.
Causes:
1. Incomplete conversion of acetaldehyde to ethanol during fermentation resulting in green apple
smell and flavor. Oxygen depletion, premature yeast flocculation, or prematurely racking the
beer from the yeast will stop the fermentation reaction at acetaldehyde. Especially evident
when weak yeast is used and the beers are young or have high alcohol content.
Glucose -> pyruvic acid -> acetaldehyde -> ethanol
2. Oxidation of finished beer causes reverse oxidation of ethanol to acetaldehyde and acetic acid
resulting in acetic-cider or rotten apple smell and taste.
3. Bacterial infection by Zymomonas or Acetobacter resulting in more vinegary and less pleasant
rotten apple flavor. Typically occurs when racking or bottling.
Prevention:
1. Keep refined sugars (glucose and fructose) to <20% to avoid stuck fermentation where the
yeast ferment the monosaccharides and quit. Excess acetaldehyde produced in a high refined
sugar wort can cause yeast to produce acetic acid with contributes to the cidery character.
2. Use good quality yeast, especially in high alcohol beers to ensure proper attenuation.
3. Use lower pitching rate. (?)
4. Properly aerate to avoid oxygen depletion and ensure proper attenuation.
5. Use cooler fermentation temperature. (?)
6. Allow proper time for fermentation and aging.
7. Strict sanitation practices to avoid bacterial infection.
Remedy:
1. Use warmer lagering or conditioning temperature&#8230; I assume to prevent yeast flocculation.
Cold storage for short durations promotes acetaldehyde in the final product, whereas longer
cold storage would ultimately reduce acetaldehyde into ethanol.
2. Keep beer on the yeast (don&#8217;t rack too soon).
3. Rouse the yeast to keep it suspended"


hope this help!
~Amh

 

[malkore]

There's nothing wrong with bringing the keg back up to room temp for a few weeks to condition. No need to shake it to suspend the yeast either.

I find most of my beers improve with aging in the keg or bottle, before I cool it down. That's just my way though.

 

[TRainH2o]

There's nothing wrong with bringing the keg back up to room temp for a few weeks to condition. No need to shake it to suspend the yeast either.

I find most of my beers improve with aging in the keg or bottle, before I cool it down. That's just my way though.

Thanks malkore.

 

[fatbob]

On the rare occasion that a beer sits in my kegs more than a month or two, I do notice that they have continued the conditioning, but at a much slower pace. I usually leave my brews in primary for 3 to 4 weeks. Then I transfer to a keg and leave it at about 70 degrees for another 2 to 3 weeks. Then I put them in the kegerator and hook them up to about 30 psi for 2 days. Then I release the pressure and seve at 8 psi.