Smaller batch, lower efficiency

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NorthernBrew

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Hello brainboxes.
I´ve been brewing biab 10 gallon batches for about 2 years now and for the first couple of batches struggled with efficiency. After I made myself a grain mill things took a turn for the better and eventually I could rely on an 80 % efficiency. After a few incidents with the bag, scorching and tearing, I decided to make a 1 micron mesh wire stainless basket. That worked great until I wanted to brew smaller batches so I could get more experience and tinker with my recipes more.
The thing is the diameter of my basket is quite a bit smaller than my kettle. In centimeters the kettle is 50 cm across and my basket is 35 cm across.
For 10 gallon batches this is absolutely fine and actually doable with 5 gallon batches. Efficiency remains the same and everybody´s happy.
The kettle has 5500 w electric heating element so I put in a false bottom to keep from scorching the grain. To cover the false bottom I need about 2 gallons of water. On top of that sits the mesh basket (with the smaller diameter). With these dimensions it is impossible for me to brew 10 ltr batches, which is about 2,5 gallons. And I would really like to be able to make small test batches and brew more often.
So I got myself a cooler. It is about 4 gallons I guess. So I heat up my strike water and mash in the cooler. Let it sit for an hour, checking temperatures frequently, and then just dump it in the basket to drain off so I can boil and do the rest in the kettle.
Now I realize that doing this I´m not getting the same liquor to grist ratio, because the size of the cooler. But it is still about 3 to 1. Now my theory was that doing it this way if I maintain my temps I should get about the same efficiency. With this method I have not done a mashout step and the ratio of liquor to grist is a little bit thicker.
I have done this 3 times now, with tried and tested recipes, solid temperatures and the rest of my process remaining the same.
But there is a definate difference in efficiency. I have been on 60% everytime. From 80 to 60? Same crush, same recipes, same boil, same times, same temps.
What could be the deciding factor in this?
Sorry for the long post.
Thanks guys
 
A lower liquor to grist ratio on your smaller batches will be less efficient. Why would your liquor to grist ratio be less for smaller batches?
Only because the size of the cooler wont allow me to put all the water in there with the grain. I can have about 8-10 quarts of water with 5-6 lbs of grain and thats it.
 
If you don't add heat while the bag of grains are in the pot and you won't scorch the bag. Calculate the strike temp, drop in the bag and stir in the grains. Cover pot and insulate. Wait 30 minutes and pull the bag of grains out, then start heating.
 
Only because the size of the cooler wont allow me to put all the water in there with the grain. I can have about 8-10 quarts of water with 5-6 lbs of grain and thats it.

So you are topping up the kettle with water, or sparging? If you are using less water per pound of grain your efficiency will most likely always be lower.
 
If you don't add heat while the bag of grains are in the pot and you won't scorch the bag. Calculate the strike temp, drop in the bag and stir in the grains. Cover pot and insulate. Wait 30 minutes and pull the bag of grains out, then start heating.[/QUOTE

Do you mean take the false bottom out as well?
Because I need about 2 gallons just to cover the false bottom. If I leave it in the grain could not be submerged.
 
So you are topping up the kettle with water, or sparging? If you are using less water per pound of grain your efficiency will most likely always be lower.

Yeah I pretty much just topped it off. I guess I knew that my efficiency would drop a bit, but 20 % came as quite a shock.
Next time I´ll sparge to add the water and do a mashout and take it from there.
Thanks for the input
 
Yes, you could remove the false bottom and just mash full volume smaller batches. Temp control may not be as precise, but not a big deal IMO.

If you need to fire the element a little while the bag is in the pot, just stir constantly, or lift the bag off the element while it is heating.

No big advantage using the smaller cooler, maybe better temp control but other issues.

I would try a small batch in the large kettle.
 
Yes, you could remove the false bottom and just mash full volume smaller batches. Temp control may not be as precise, but not a big deal IMO.

If you need to fire the element a little while the bag is in the pot, just stir constantly, or lift the bag off the element while it is heating.

No big advantage using the smaller cooler, maybe better temp control but other issues.

I would try a small batch in the large kettle.

Sounds like a plan :mug:
 
Yeah I pretty much just topped it off. I guess I knew that my efficiency would drop a bit, but 20 % came as quite a shock.
Next time I´ll sparge to add the water and do a mashout and take it from there.
Thanks for the input

Top off rather than sparge was the efficiency killer. Without a sparge, the SG of the wort retained in the grain is the same as the SG of your first runnings. With a sparge, the SG of the retained wort is the same as the SG of your second runnings (much lower.) The volume of the retained wort is the same in either case. Thus less sugar remains in the grain after a sparge, so more of the sugar makes it into your BK.

The actual volume of the retained wort is higher than the apparent grain absorption calculated as
Apparent_Absorption = Strike_Volume - First_Runnings_Volume​
because part of the first runnings volume is from the sugar, thus the actual retained water volume is the apparent retained volume plus the volume of sugar in the collected wort. The retained wort volume is a little higher than the retained water volume because of the sugar volume in the retained wort.

No need for a mash out with batch sparging. Mash outs are useful when fly sparging.

Brew on :mug:
 
Are you then mashing and boiling in the same vessel? Batch sparging how? I like the strainer over the kettle way myself, sort of fly sparging with hot water over the bag. How else would you batch sparge with just the one vessel?
 
Come at this from the other direction brother - you know your 10 gal setup is at 80% and your 2.5 efficiency is at 60%. When making a 2.5 just boost your grain bill - not like it's going to cost you anything. Then when scaling up to 10 gal, take the better efficiency into account.

I mean - it's probably not even a pound of base
 
Come at this from the other direction brother - you know your 10 gal setup is at 80% and your 2.5 efficiency is at 60%. When making a 2.5 just boost your grain bill - not like it's going to cost you anything. Then when scaling up to 10 gal, take the better efficiency into account.

I mean - it's probably not even a pound of base

True.But this was more the question of "why does it change? " Rather than a cry of "I´m ruined"
And I guess the lower liquor ratio and the top off are to blame. Always nice to know whats happening :)
 
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