Skipping the Ice Bath

[smata67]

For my next brew, I'm thinking of directly dumping 3 gallons of hot wort into my fermentation bucket which will have 2 gallons of water at room temperature, then placing in a freezer to bring it down to pitching temperature (let's say 80F). Any idea about how long that would take? I usually chill the hot wort in an ice bath prior to doing this, but I need to cut down on my brew cycle time. I'll have a temperature controller set at 80F to ensure I don't undershoot my temp. I'll find out soon enough how long it will take, but I'm sure there's some experience out there doing this.

 

[stratslinger]

I can't really say - I'm assuming that'd still take quite a while. But one suggestion: Take your 2 gallons of water and stick them in the freezer ahead of time and get them well below room temperature (as close to freezing as you can) before you dump your wort into them. That temperature diferential will go a helluva lot further to bring down the temperature than room temperature water would.

 

[smata67]

Good idea! Could shave a couple of hours off the process.

 

[Darwin18]

I would be very careful - the melting point of your plastic bucket (if it's polyethylene) is close to boiling temperatures. If it's high density PE it ranges from 120 - 130 degrees C but if it is low density PE it ranges from 105 - 115 degrees C, which is close to the temperature of boiling water.

I melted a Better Bottle once doing this, and ruined a batch of beer, so I would advise against doing this.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

For my next brew, I'm thinking of directly dumping 3 gallons of hot wort into my fermentation bucket which will have 2 gallons of water at room temperature, then placing in a freezer to bring it down to pitching temperature (let's say 80F). Any idea about how long that would take? I usually chill the hot wort in an ice bath prior to doing this, but I need to cut down on my brew cycle time. I'll have a temperature controller set at 80F to ensure I don't undershoot my temp. I'll find out soon enough how long it will take, but I'm sure there's some experience out there doing this.

Just curious what you're brewing that has a pitch temp of 80. That seems awfully high, especially if you have a temperature controlled freezer.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

If it's an extract batch, there wouldn't be any harm in just putting the lid on your brew pot and sticking it outside or in your fermentation chamber overnight. Then you can top up with room temp water in the morning and pitch your yeast.

 

[bja]

I would be very careful - the melting point of your plastic bucket (if it's polyethylene) is close to boiling temperatures. If it's high density PE it ranges from 120 - 130 degrees C but if it is low density PE it ranges from 105 - 115 degrees C, which is close to the temperature of boiling water.

I melted a Better Bottle once doing this, and ruined a batch of beer, so I would advise against doing this.

Since there will already be 2 gallon of cold water in the bucket, the temp is going to be well below boiling.

 

[sweetcell]

air cooling is not very efficient and will take a long time. you don't want to take a long time:

If it's an extract batch, there wouldn't be any harm in just putting the lid on your brew pot and sticking it outside or in your fermentation chamber overnight. Then you can top up with room temp water in the morning and pitch your yeast.

there would in fact be harm - the chances of getting a lacto infection are pretty high. you beer will sour, and it won't go away with time. do a search for "sour mash". that's why you need to cool as quickly as possibly: make sure your beer yeast is the first to the party, and that it can set up shop before other bugs can get a foothold.

chilling/freezing the top-up water is a good way to proceed.

 

[Darwin18]

Since there will already be 2 gallon of cold water in the bucket, the temp is going to be well below boiling.

You may observe some melting when you initially pour the wort into the bucket, and if especially if you do not mix it thoroughly. The hot wort will not cool instantly when it comes into contact with the cold water. I would just let it air cool at least below boiling before you transfer it.

 

[rifraf]

there would in fact be harm - the chances of getting a lacto infection are pretty high. you beer will sour, and it won't go away with time. do a search for "sour mash".

Tell that to all the slow chill/no chill brewers out there.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

there would in fact be harm - the chances of getting a lacto infection are pretty high. you beer will sour, and it won't go away with time. do a search for "sour mash". that's why you need to cool as quickly as possibly: make sure your beer yeast is the first to the party, and that it can set up shop before other bugs can get a foothold.

Um, if you've boiled the wort for an hour or more, I'm pretty sure the bugs are dead...

Sour mashing is something altogether different.

 

[bja]

You may observe some melting when you initially pour the wort into the bucket, and if especially if you do not mix it thoroughly. The hot wort will not cool instantly when it comes into contact with the cold water. I would just let it air cool at least below boiling before you transfer it.

Adding 3 gallon of 210f wort to 2 gallon of 35f water will get you down to 140f. Not a problem for the bucket.

It works, I've done it.

 

[feinbera]

How warm/cool is your tapwater? I can get down near 100 or so in about 20 minutes running tapwater into a bath in my swamp cooler while simultaneously siphoning warmed water out. It's not exactly perfect, but as long as the siphon is pulling from the top inch or so, it's pulling out water much warmer than what's flowing in (the temperature stratification of water sitting next to five gallons of near-boiling wort is amazing, even with the incoming tapwater to mix things around).

Then again, in San Francisco, the tapwater is in the low 60's; this probably wouldn't work quite so well in the South or the desert.

Three gallons at 110 + two gallons at 35 = five gallons at 80, no air chilling necessary!

 

[dougdecinces]

Look up no-chill brewing. I've been doing this for months now with great success. It cuts my brewing time down by 30-60 minutes and saves me lots of water. The only downside with it is that you can no longer do aroma hop additions, but most of my big beers are not all that hoppy. I usually only do APAs and IPAs as three gallon batches so I can enjoy them fresh. 3 gallon batches aren't as much of a PITA to chill.

 

[sweed]

Ice bath with 2.5 gallons for 15-20 into cold water brings down to about 70 for me. It doesn't take long to cool the hot wort. I bring the wort down to 100-110 and then pour it into the cold water in the primary.

 

[ACbrewer]

OP it will take LONGER to air cool your wort than it will to ice bath cool. Assuming that the heat transfer capcity is the same per unit mass, air is about 1000x less dense than water and thus takes longer to transfer the heat. You can test this easily, microwave 2 mugs of water. Put one in a bowl with some tap water in it, and one on the counter. the one in the bowl will cool quicker.

As for no chill brewing, if you cover the pot as you take it off the heat (or a few minutes before to heat sanatize the lid if you worry about that sort of thing) and then just let it sit to cool. Nothing can fall in (I've yet to meet the bacteria that can lift a lid and jump in). Come back in a few hours (next day?) and pitch to your bucket. Optionally you can no-chill in the bucket and go from there using a similar method - basically putting wort in with your 2 gallons of cooled water and put the lid on, come back when it is down to temp and pitch.

If you are looking to speed your chilling you need to look at chilling devices, or a larger icebath.

 

[dougdecinces]

Just piggy-backing on what ACBrewer said, there is actually a plastic sealable drum called a WinPak hat can handle boiling temperatures. I got mine for only $12 and it works like a dream. Go here and scroll about halfway down. My kettle has a spigot, so I just run some silicon tubing from the spigot to the WinPak when I'm done, seal it, and let it sit overnight. This way you ensure nothing bad gets in your beer. When it's cooled, you can do a hell of a good job aerating your wort by shaking the WinPak without the fear of spillage.

 

[ElyIrishBrew]

I can't really say - I'm assuming that'd still take quite a while. But one suggestion: Take your 2 gallons of water and stick them in the freezer ahead of time and get them well below room temperature (as close to freezing as you can) before you dump your wort into them. That temperature diferential will go a helluva lot further to bring down the temperature than room temperature water would.

That's a great idea. Thanks!

 

[unionrdr]

Your biggest concern is going to be chill haze. You need to cool down to pitch temp in 20 minutes or less to eliminate it,or at least get very little. Come fridge time,as soon as the beer cools down,you'll start seeing chill haze if the hot wort wasn't chilled down in 29 minutes or less. You can by pass that.

 

[sweetcell]

Tell that to all the slow chill/no chill brewers out there.

then tell the OP to do actual, proper no-chill. as someone pointed out earlier, the OP is proposing to chill to ~140*F and then let it slowly cool after that (spending a good amount of time in the 120-130*F zone where lacto can really take off). this is not no-chill. also, the OP won't be removing air, super-heating what little air is left and then sealing the vessel. instead, as the large amount of air in there, as it cools, will contract and suck in air from the outside.

Um, if you've boiled the wort for an hour or more, I'm pretty sure the bugs are dead...

in the wort, sure. but the OP is running the risk of sucking in bugs from outside air. lacto is everywhere.

Sour mashing is something altogether different.

yes, the OP isn't sour mashing. i pointed it out as an example of what long slow cooling results in: lactic acid.

to be clear, i'm only pointing out a risk. i'm not saying the OP is guaranteed to have problems, but the chance is there.

 

[rifraf]

Many people here have posted how they simply put the lid on their fermentor overnight and pitch in the morning as "slow chill" vs all of the air evacuating, special container etc involved in "no chill" and storing the cooled wort for a few months.

That being said, I do very much recommend proper sanitizing, and good practices etc while believing an overnight slow chill probably isn't a big deal.

 

[smata67]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that any of these "skip chill" approaches bypass the cold break, though Papazian does it constantly (dumping hot wort into water to get the 5 gallons) in the Joy. Certainly, one cannot hope to deviate from the standard procedure without some potential negative consequences. I must say that I have never chilled cooler than 80F, and have even pitched closer to 90F, with no negative consequences. I have also waited several hours at ambient to cool things down to a pitching temperature when my chilled wort and water were still in the 90s, with no ill effect. Anyway, I will most likely just continue using the ice bath to cool the hot pot prior to blending. Its just that I find those final tasks before finishing the most tedious in the process.