skimming before boil. anyone do it?

[normonster]

Just admit it Weez. That's the first step to skim recovery.

 

[blizz81]

No skimming, and everything goes into the fermenter (hop trub minimized by bags). So not completely au naturale...more like "landing strip".

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Yeah I have heard good things about letting it all go into the fermenter (minus hops) gonna have to not skim on my next Amber ale batch and see if I have any changes...

 

[joshesmusica]

Yeah I have heard good things about letting it all go into the fermenter (minus hops) gonna have to not skim on my next Amber ale batch and see if I have any changes...

But again, I'm willing to bet that what you heard has just been regurgitated reports from Brulosopher's experiments. Which only prove that on average-sized, light beers, that are consumed rather quickly (less than 4 months) high amounts of trub don't make much of an impact.

On the reverse side, though, if you're creating a high-abv beer that could use some aging, it seems the trub will impact the long-term stability of the beer.

More specifically, fatty acids are assumed to be responsible mainly for the formation of epoxy and trihydroxy-acids, which are staling pre-cursors, and have an increased solubility in wort and reach the final beer.

Additionally, there seems to be a correlation between the content of long-chain fatty acids and the organoleptic sense of staling.

On the topic of head retention and the trub's role in that:

“the surface-active properties of lipids may be beneficial for head retention since they can suppress excessive fobbing during fermentation. Head positive substances, mainly protein derived, are concentrated in the fob and can be removed from the fob by precipitation. This may explain why worts with high lipid content, e.g. from a mash filter, can give a beer with better head retention than that produced from a low lipid content wort."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2006.tb00716.x/pdf

 

[Nagorg]

Somehow I have never heard of skimming the hot break till now. So, I have obviously never done it. Not sure I will either since my process so far has produced what I believe is good beer. I do have a few medals from some of these so at least a few other people must agree with that. Not to mention, it sounds like a PITA!

 

[Rcbandl]

If skimming makes you feel better, go for it. Im pretty sure the only advantage doing this is "making you feel better"

The amounts of break material you are removing is minimal, probably less than 5%. Very little of the foam is actually hot break. Its a very small percentage mixed with the wort. The bulk of break material is floating in the wort. You know the stuff that looks like egg drop soup.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

Yeah I have heard good things about letting it all go into the fermenter (minus hops) gonna have to not skim on my next Amber ale batch and see if I have any changes...

Try it. Very likely on an amber ale of normal gravity you won't find any difference what so ever. I don't really understand what you mean minus the hops though?

 

[thethirstyweasel]

If skimming makes you feel better, go for it. Im pretty sure the only advantage doing this is "making you feel better"

The amounts of break material you are removing is minimal, probably less than 5%. Very little of the foam is actually hot break. Its a very small percentage mixed with the wort. The bulk of break material is floating in the wort. You know the stuff that looks like egg drop soup.

I agree!

 

[thethirstyweasel]

But again, I'm willing to bet that what you heard has just been regurgitated reports from Brulosopher's experiments. Which only prove that on average-sized, light beers, that are consumed rather quickly (less than 4 months) high amounts of trub don't make much of an impact.

On the reverse side, though, if you're creating a high-abv beer that could use some aging, it seems the trub will impact the long-term stability of the beer.





On the topic of head retention and the trub's role in that:



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2006.tb00716.x/pdf

Those notorious scientist what they know? I say this as I have degree in Chemistry. Often you read these scientific journals and this group finds this set of results. Another group comes along and finds exactly opposite results, then a third group comes along and finds something different than both of the previous. I'm not trying to be little the science in brewing by no means, I think the discoveries that have been made has led to better beer and that is what it is all about. I will say that beer has been brewed for millennia and only in the last century or so did anyone have the foggiest idea of what they were doing. Each brew is an experiment and that is wonderful thing. Even better is sharing the results with like minded people who want to make better beer.
Naturally, were not always going to agree, but I try to have an open mind, and listen to others experiences and compare their results with my own. As far as trub is concerned I think skimming would only very marginally remove total trub in the kettle. I would only worry about its effect on the beer if it was a lot of trub and the beer was in contact with it a very long time.
cheers,
Weez

 

[joshesmusica]

If skimming makes you feel better, go for it. Im pretty sure the only advantage doing this is "making you feel better"

The amounts of break material you are removing is minimal, probably less than 5%. Very little of the foam is actually hot break. Its a very small percentage mixed with the wort. The bulk of break material is floating in the wort. You know the stuff that looks like egg drop soup.

Granted the amount that you might skim may not be very much (depending on how vigilant one was, I would personally venture to say it's more than 5%, but that would be just as much an opinionated guess as yours was). The problem is that the discussion turned from skimming at the beginning of the boil, to pour in all the trub all the time. Which a lot of the science shows is a very over-generalized statement that could end up helping to stale some styles much quicker.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Try it. Very likely on an amber ale of normal gravity you won't find any difference what so ever. I don't really understand what you mean minus the hops though?

I meant leave the hops out of the fermenter but let all hot/col break go in there. I was doing this in the early stages of my brewing, but I was gettin a slight of flavou always attributed it to the break material but I also changed my setup a batch later too. Mayb , and worth giving a try again.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

I meant leave the hops out of the fermenter but let all hot/col break go in there. I was doing this in the early stages of my brewing, but I was gettin a slight of flavou always attributed it to the break material but I also changed my setup a batch later too. Mayb , and worth giving a try again.

I'm not really advocating putting all the trub in there. I'm not advocating my style of brewing either. I have in the past dumped the kettle straight to the carboy everything in, but I don't think that's good. I rack from kettle to carboy
and I generally leave behind any where from a pint to a quart of trub break material whatever. IMHO there is plenty of break material still dissolved in the wort unless you are cooling to near freezing. Do you use hop socks are just through your hops straight in?

 

[Rcbandl]

I'm not really advocating putting all the trub in there. I'm not advocating my style of brewing either. I have in the past dumped the kettle straight to the carboy everything in, but I don't think that's good. I rack from kettle to carboy
and I generally leave behind any where from a pint to a quart of trub break material whatever. IMHO there is plenty of break material still dissolved in the wort unless you are cooling to near freezing. Do you use hop socks are just through your hops straight in?

Any organic material you leave in the beer is going to contribute to the flavor. Anything organic is going to decompose over time. It may not be significant alone but added to other small factors in the process I believe it all adds up. I personally am slowly improving my process to leave as much hops and break material behind as possible. There will still be plenty of proteins left in solution for the yeast to utilize. My latest improvement was a pump and whirlpool arm in the kettle and as you can see in the photo, quite a bit was piled up in the center. I just racked the beer from the photo and except for small swirls of darker material the bottom of the carboy it was all bright tan colored yeast.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

that's pretty cool! I agree anything that is organic is going to decompose and that is certainly going to create off flavors. I think it makes big difference in what you are doing and what your end goals are. There is a lot science describing the pros and cons of many things pertaining to brewing and much of the findings are somewhat inconsistent, and have changed even in the last few years. I am by no means an expert, I have been a home brewer on an off again for 21 years. Really all I have to go on is my experience, and much of what I have learned came from doing things wrong! I think brewing and life in general is about balance, and having fun too. I will generalize what I think about trub in the fermentor. If ones goal is to produce really light, crisp, clean, beers or beers that are going to be aged for very long periods of time, then I would say one should be rather fastidious about trub removal. If that's not the case then I tend to think its much less important. That is what great about this hobby, every brew is an experiment. I also think that is what is so awesome about this website is we can communicate and discuss our results with like minded people, and maybe help some new guys come along. There was no one to help me in 1994 when the glass grenades started going off at 2 o'clock in the morning

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

I'm not really advocating putting all the trub in there. I'm not advocating my style of brewing either. I have in the past dumped the kettle straight to the carboy everything in, but I don't think that's good. I rack from kettle to carboy
and I generally leave behind any where from a pint to a quart of trub break material whatever. IMHO there is plenty of break material still dissolved in the wort unless you are cooling to near freezing. Do you use hop socks are just through your hops straight in?

I do not use the hop socks anymore, just found them to be a pain and just make a mess. I wish I could go to a whirlpool system but the SWMBO put the gears to me after a 600$ pot / burner setup show up at at door... so I I to cool it for for bit on th spending. Especially since making beer was "suppost to s u money" hahaha. I just compensate for a gallon of trub waste a ajust m numbers. numbers. I can harvest a little more great . O not no big deal

 

[JohnnyBrewGood]

I skim.

I do full volume BIAB in a 9 gallon kettle so until the hot break I have to watch it like a mofo anyhow so why not? Haven't had a boil over yet but I no longer brew in flip flops ;-)

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Flip flops are always bad news when brewing! Rubber boots the whole way! Hahaha. Brewed today and tried not to skim the pot just to try it out for the first unintentional time... couldn't do it, ran inside and grabbed the faithful spoon and bowl and skimmed my heart out. Felt too wrong not to.

 

[normonster]

Good man Shawn, good man.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I skim mostly to ensure that cat hair stays out of my carboys.

Stupid cat hair. Gets everywhere.