Sizing your Chest Freezer for Corny Kegs

[thadius856]

<<REMOVED FOR ORGANIZATION REASONS>>

Moved to: [thread=377518]Chest Freezer Spec Sheets and Layout Drawings[/thread]

 

[thadius856]

<<REMOVED FOR ORGANIZATION REASONS>>

Moved to: [thread=377518]Chest Freezer Spec Sheets and Layout Drawings[/thread]

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I know the holiday chest freezer is already posted but I figured pictures with kegs would say more.

Holiday 5.0cf Chest Freezer from Lowes $188.00 as of the time of this writing

3 Kegs fit no problems with the 5Lbs CO2 tank, if tall enough collar was built it could fit 4 with the CO2 tank outside the freezer. Still have room to put bottles on the hump and around the kegs.

How is the quality of the Holiday freezer

 

[passedpawn]

Schnazzy! Is that the Magic Chef 7.0 CF, HMCF7W?

That one was on my list as being able to fit 4 on the floor in this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/7cu-ft-freezer-sale-starting-tomorrow-366240/

Are yours pin locks or converted ball locks, by chance?

The Magic Chef 7.0 (from the recent HD sale) will hold 4 on the floor and 2 on the hump if an 8" collar is installed. Ball locks.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

The Magic Chef 7.0 (from the recent HD sale) will hold 4 on the floor and 2 on the hump if an 8" collar is installed. Ball locks.

Is a 5 cu large enough for 3 cornies?

 

[passedpawn]

Is a 5 cu large enough for 3 cornies?

I'd guess yes, with a collar, but you're probably not looking for guesses.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I HAVE BEEN GOIN NUTS! Can't find "the one". I need the smallest that can hold 3 cornies....

Will the GE 5 cu ft FCM5SUWW fit three 5 gal cornies and my co2 (inside)?


I have boiled it down to the Gen. Electric freezers because apparently the reviews on them are way higher than the reviews on any other freezer...

These are the two that are in the running for me,
But I really do not want to go 7 cu ft. if I don't have to..... So if three cornies will fit in this particular model General Electric with a collar I am going to go with the five...

5 cu ft
Product Dimensions: 24 x 29.3 x 32.4 inches ; 111 pounds
Item model number: FCM5SUWW
Average Customer Review: 4.6 out of 5 stars
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011YFTGE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

7 cu
Model InfoFCM7DUWW
Dimensions (HxWxD)
33 1/4 H x 37 W x 22 D
91 pounds (LIGHTER then the 5 cu)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E4KTYA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Sam&#146;s Club- GE 7.0 CF Freezer Model: FCM7DUWW
Home Depot- GE 7.0 CF Freezer Model # FCM7SUWW

Not the same freezers.

Which is better and is the better availible?

 

[thadius856]

I HAVE BEEN GOIN NUTS! Can't find "the one". I need the smallest that can hold 3 cornies....

Will the GE 5 cu ft FCM5SUWW fit three 5 gal cornies and my co2 (inside)?


I have boiled it down to the Gen. Electric freezers because apparently the reviews on them are way higher than the reviews on any other freezer...

These are the two that are in the running for me,
But I really do not want to go 7 cu ft. if I don't have to..... So if three cornies will fit in this particular model General Electric with a collar I am going to go with the five...

5 cu ft
Product Dimensions: 24 x 29.3 x 32.4 inches ; 111 pounds
Item model number: FCM5SUWW
Average Customer Review: 4.6 out of 5 stars
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011YFTGE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

7 cu
Model InfoFCM7DUWW
Dimensions (HxWxD)
33 1/4 H x 37 W x 22 D
91 pounds (LIGHTER then the 5 cu)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E4KTYA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Slow down, turbo.

I posted spec sheets and calculated layouts for both of these models already, a page back. It answers all of these questions, and many more.

 

[thadius856]

Which is better and is the better availible?

You don't want the Sam's Club version because the hump is larger, screwing up configurations substantially.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Well as a follow to my post...

I went to Lowes and Home Depot to look at their chest freezers. Lowes had the 5 cu ft Holiday chest freezer while Home Depot had the GE 5 cu ft chest freezer. These models are identical, the internal dimensions are exactly the same (including the hump). The only difference is that the GE one was 20 bucks more expensive.

Anyways, I believe you should be able to fit 2 pin lock kegs without a collar, if you cram them in, it looks like it would be a pretty tight fit. If you build a collar, it looks like you will be able to fit 3 pin lock kegs (with the two on the floor being crammed in), so 3 ball locks will fit nicely with a collar.

It seems that the best setup if you have pin locks and want to fit 3 in this thing is to build a collar as well as a stand. So you would basically extend the hump across the entirety of the freezer. If you were to do this, you should be able to fit 3 pin locks fairly easily without having to cram them in. However, if you have ball locks you might be able to fit 4 with this method.

Everyone talks about collars but not a single person will say how many inches tall they need to be to accommodate?
8 inch, 9 inch, 10 inch?

EDITED: Due to me acting like a tool...

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I can fit 3 ball locks and C02 tank in my 5.0 Holiday, but I also have a collar that allows for more height.

What is the height please....

 

[passedpawn]

Everyone talks about collars but not a single person will say how many inches tall they need to be to accommodate!!!
8"??? 9"???? 10"???? WHAT?

Please stop it with all the punctuation. You are yelling at people who want to help you.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

You don't want the Sam's Club version because the hump is larger, screwing up configurations substantially.

SAMs club as in - GE Model: FCM7DUWW

I found that I don't have enough room for 7 cu ft. so I need to go five cubic
And all I want is to fit three corny kegs in there and the CO2..... And I'm really having a hard time following all the changes in models and brands.... I just want a damn small Keezer that will have three beers on draft... I'll build a collar... I don't care.... Even if I have to build a foot tall collar.... DAMN....
(I am SOOO utterly frustrated right now!)


I saw your sketches but That means I'm spending $600 based on your CAD skills...
I hope your good... Lol

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Please stop it with all the punctuation. You are yelling at people who want to help you.

Sorry, I forget that capitals and punctuation's are like that in the Internet... I don't mean to Yell ay anybody, So I hope you guys forgive me I don't mean anything by it I'm just frustrated....

This has been kind of a dream of mine since I've started home brewing last year... I've been trying hard to save money to get to this point and now I have the money and the desire but I'm stuck with trying to figure out what will work before I buy everything...

Again guys, I don't mean to yell I'm sorry

 

[thadius856]

SAMs club as in - GE Model: FCM7DUWW

I found that I don't have enough room for 7 cu ft. so I need to go five cubic
And all I want is to fit three corny kegs in there and the CO2..... And I'm really having a hard time following all the changes in models and brands.... I just want a damn small Keezer that will have three beers on draft... I'll build a collar... I don't care.... Even if I have to build a foot tall collar.... DAMN....
(I am SOOO utterly frustrated right now!)


I saw your sketches but That means I'm spending $600 based on your CAD skills...
I hope your good... Lol

On this page, look at the top right-hand corner. There's a button labelled 'Search this Thread'. It's very easy to not notice it.

Enter the model number there. It'll show you every post containing it. Several have pictures of the finished deal.

And yeah, I'm pretty decent with AutoCAD. Took several CAD courses and a Regional Occupation Program for drafting/architectural design. Been using it over 10 years now. I use to for everything... laying out furniture layouts before buying, planning rug size in a room, designing tile floor patterns, locating studs with having to dig out the stud finder, etc.

With the drawings, I did have to rig up one thing. If I used the 8.5" diameter figure often-quoted for ball locks, then known good, photographed configurations didn't fit. I couldn't figure it out. However, if I drew them 8-3/8", everything fit exactly as it does in reality. Blame it on a bad measurement, out-of-roundness, dents, whatever you like. But a ball lock is NOT truly 8.5" in diameter like everybody keeps saying. Some sites even quote 8.25". Go figure.

 

[limulus]

Everyone talks about collars but not a single person will say how many inches tall they need to be to accommodate?
8 inch, 9 inch, 10 inch?

EDITED: Due to me acting like a tool...

I think most people are building 8" collars (I have a coffin and no collar). If you do build one, you should also hinge the collar so it will tilt. That makes it easier to get your kegs in and out. You'll have hinges on your lid which is attached to the collar and hinges on the collar which is attached to the freezer. You can also mount all your hardware such as gauges, manifolds, etc to the back side of the collar. That way it will lift/tilt up and out of the way when you are working inside the keezer.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Okay guys. I went out and took some measurements of interiors. Measured every freezer stocked at Home Depot and Lowe's. Was on my way to do HHgreg, Best Buy, Sears, Fry's, etc when the boss called me into work. So, sorry, this is all you get for now. My next days off are Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and then a family reunion. I'll try to pump out more of these when I get some spare time back.

From the previous page, the GE 7.0CF FCM5SUWW.

Spec sheet:

http://imgur.com/9hRas

Calculated possible layouts:

http://imgur.com/EE2EI

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http://imgur.com/8UlTH

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http://imgur.com/ziKGt

Hi Thadius, Thanks for doing this is really helpful! I just bought my seven cubic today, the exact same model....
I have a quick question for you, On the spec sheet it says that the collars minimum height should be 9 inches... But below that on the picture you have 7 3/4 (or something along those lines)? Is that just the overall height of the kegs inside? Should I go with 7 3/4 or 9"?
I plan to have three working kegs and three working taps and one spare keg inside there (if one runs dry) with one or two CO2 tanks to power it.... Does this mean I should make my collar 9 inches? [I'm going to get the ball lock 5 gal corney kegs for inside, by the way..]

And I also have one question about CO2, If I use the # 5 CO2 tank is that enough for three kegs?

 

[passedpawn]

And I also have one question about CO2, If I use the # 5 CO2 tank is that enough for three kegs?

You'll be able to carbonate and dispense about 3 kegs per # of CO2. So, the 5# will last for about 15 kegs, then you will need to fill or exchange it. In summary, 5# is fine for what you are doing.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

You'll be able to carbonate and dispense about 3 kegs per # of CO2. So, the 5# will last for about 15 kegs, then you will need to fill or exchange it. In summary, 5# is fine for what you are doing.

Do I want to have a separate CO2 tank if I want to force carbonate? I'm thinking of trying that.
Or is that the same thing...


And do some guys have an extra sitting in there just in case they run out?

Thanks PassedPawn

 

[passedpawn]

Do I want to have a separate CO2 tank if I want to force carbonate? I'm thinking of trying that.
Or is that the same thing...


And do some guys have an extra sitting in there just in case they run out?

Thanks PassedPawn

One tank will do. Force carbonate just means you are carbonating with CO2 from a tank - so I guess same thing.

You really don't need an extra. The regulator will show you when the gas is getting low. When you run out, you can still serve beer for a while since there will be lots of compressed gas in the cornies. Just takes a quick trip to exchange for a full one.

 

[thadius856]

I have a quick question for you, On the spec sheet it says that the collars minimum height should be 9 inches... But below that on the picture you have 7 3/4 (or something along those lines)? Is that just the overall height of the kegs inside? Should I go with 7 3/4 or 9"?

I just stared at the 5.0 CF model for a few minutes trying to figure out what you were talking about, until I noticed you said 7.0 CF. Hehe.

In the drawings, the min collar height is how tall of a collar you'd need to have 1" clearance above the top of the tallest object. With a corny, that's a tight, but doable fit. With a sanke, you'd probably need a bit more. That's where the 7¾" min collar figure comes from.

On the spec sheet, entries that are italicized are copied straight from the drawings. The 9" entry you're referring to has a username in the far right column, kmat123, which means that that particular user has personally confirm that the layout is possible with that size collar on their build.

Could you go 7¾"? Maybe. It's going to be tight. I'd go 9¼" (1x10 or 2x10 nominal width) just in case you ever decide to throw a 1/6 bbl or 1/4 slim bbl in there for a party. Plus, the extra height might just be enough to give you a place to store chilled mugs in the collar.

 

[thadius856]

Do I want to have a separate CO2 tank if I want to force carbonate? I'm thinking of trying that.
Or is that the same thing...


And do some guys have an extra sitting in there just in case they run out?

Thanks PassedPawn

Here comes a long response. The short answer is you can do it however you want.

You do not need a separate tank to force carbonate (speed up the natural carbonation process). It's just a pain in the ass, unless you make some concessions. Force carbing requires you to up the target keg to 30 psi, then ramp it down. To do this, you need some way to prevent from giving the serving kegs 30 psi.

The cheapest way to force carb on the same tank as serving kegs is to disconnect them. You can still get some pours off before the pressure drops in the serving keg, at which point you could disconnect the force carb keg and reconnect the serving keg to goose their pressure. Repeat as needed. Personally, that's the type of inconvenience I wanted to avoid by building a keezer.

Stepping up in price, if you have a manifold or distributor with shutoff valves, you can just shut off the valves instead of disconnecting kegs. This is easier, but still, not ideal. If you have a party, you'd have to man the CO2 tank.

Continuing up, the next option would be a dual-body primary. This is a primary on the CO2 tank that has two separate pressures and out ports. I went with this setup. I'm going to run the 1st primary to my force carbing keg at 30 PSI. The 2nd primary will be set to much lower serving pressures and connected to a distributor that feeds the serving kegs.

Another step up is to buy a secondary for each keg so you can dial in exactly what pressure they should get. This is probably the most expensive option, but gives the most flexibility. A 4-port secondary array will set you back $200, about the same price as the freezer.

The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

I bought a spare 5# tank because I live 45 minutes from the preferred tank filler, but it's on the way to work. I don't want to have to make an extra trip that far if I don't have to. Indeed, if I avoid 3 unnecessary trips, that pays for the spare tank in fuel savings. Mine won't be stored in the keezer.

 

[thadius856]

The regulator will show you when the gas is getting low.

It will show 100% full until you're running on fumes, then drops quickly.

Imagine a car where the fuel gauge only had two possible values:

"You have some indeterminate amount of fuel left..."

and

"Fuel light is on"

 

[passedpawn]

It will show 100% full until you're running on fumes, then drops quickly.

Imagine a car where the fuel gauge only had two possible values:

"You have some indeterminate amount of fuel left..."

and

"Fuel light is on"

Hmmm, maybe mine are different. I think my needle slowly goes down. I'll keep a better eye on it and see if it is really moving or if it's my imagination.

I've got a micromatic regulator on a 20# and a taprite on a 10#. I've only once filled the 20#, but that was after a leak and I lost it all overnight.

 

[passedpawn]

The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

This is what I do. I've got a big (15cu.ft.) freezer for keg storage / force carbing. It has a 20# tank and a single body regulator and a 2-port manifold.

My serving freezer has a 10# tank, a dual-body regulator (I serve soda, too, at higher PSI) and a 4-port manifold to distribute the gas.

It takes appreciable time, space, and money to get here. I think it's far better for someone new to this to get their feet wet with a simple system, and add to it once they understand the options better.

BTW, great comprehensive post.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

I think I like this option the best. I like to have separate independent systems for things...

And I'm guessing I should have some pretty decent room, Because I plan to only operate three kegs.... I was going to have one sitting in there as a spare but maybe the CO2 tank is a better option?

If I fill a fourth keg and don't pressurize it can sit with still cider in it outside the Keezer? Like in my closet.... And when I run out of one, just pull it out of the closet, put it into the keezer, pressurize it for 36hr and drink?

 

[BadgerBrigade]

you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.
.

2 co2 tanks, and 4 kegs: (Sounds like just what I've been hoping to get out of this!)

So this will fit....

One CO2 tank to power the two serving kegs
One CO2 tank to carb..
A forth Keg for back up....

Now, after my one CO2 tank force carbonates a keg, Can I then disconnect that keg from that CO2 tank and connect it into the CO2 tank that I'm using to serve the beer or cider? So then the kegs are all three hooked up to the serving CO2 tank, Then I can use my force carbonating CO2 tank to carbonate the fourth spare keg?

 

[thadius856]

It takes appreciable time, space, and money to get here. I think it's far better for someone new to this to get their feet wet with a simple system, and add to it once they understand the options better.

Perhaps. However, some options are mutually exclusive, requiring you to upgrade existing gear if done at a later point. For example, going from a manifold/distributor to a secondary, or single primary to dual primary. I'm going fully upgraded to start so I'm not re-purchasing parts to upgrade.

I think I like this option the best. I like to have separate independent systems for things...

And I'm guessing I should have some pretty decent room, Because I plan to only operate three kegs.... I was going to have one sitting in there as a spare but maybe the CO2 tank is a better option?

If you're only putting in 4 ball lock kegs, you can fit two 5# CO2 on the hump without needing a collar.

If you want a larger CO2 tank, you can move a ball lock to the hump then move the CO2 to the floor and add a 9" collar.

If you want 5 ball lock kegs and one 5# CO2, you'll need a 9" collar.

If I fill a fourth keg and don't pressurize it can sit with still cider in it outside the Keezer? Like in my closet.... And when I run out of one, just pull it out of the closet, put it into the keezer, pressurize it for 36hr and drink?

Sure. You could do that. Everything ages faster when not kept cold and topped off with CO2. I'd recommend keeping it in the keezer, hooked up to the serving gas, if you can.

2 co2 tanks, and 4 kegs: (Sounds like just what I've been hoping to get out of this!)

So this will fit....

One CO2 tank to power the two serving kegs
One CO2 tank to carb..
A forth Keg for back up....

Yes, this fits with ball lock kegs (not pin lock kegs). With this setup you don't even need to build a collar, so long as you keep the CO2 tanks down to the 5# size.

Now, after my one CO2 tank force carbonates a keg, Can I then disconnect that keg from that CO2 tank and connect it into the CO2 tank that I'm using to serve the beer or cider? So then the kegs are all three hooked up to the serving CO2 tank, Then I can use my force carbonating CO2 tank to carbonate the fourth spare keg?

Sure, you could do that.

Realize that force carbonating isn't the goal. Kegs will naturally carbonate themselves over a week or two, just like bottles do. Force carbing is for when you need to serve it sooner. You could also serve soda off the force carb keg instead without changing the setup any... you'd just need a $4 picnic faucet.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I don't think I want to use picnic type tap's.... Even though I do not need it for my configuration I think I'm going to build the 9 inch collar anyway so I can mount my tap handles, a nice digital gauge and drill the hole for the probe.

This way if I ever want to change the configuration or put a keg on the hump I can do that...

(I have a new question about force carbonation, But I don't want to change the topic of this thread.... So I'm going to put it under the kegging section. Maybe some of you guys can go and check it out and tell me what you think? It seems this thread has a very knowledgeable kegging crew)