• Please visit and share your knowledge at our sister communities:
  • If you have not, please join our official Homebrewing Facebook Group!

    Homebrewing Facebook Group

Single Infusion Mash for Millet? Too good to be true?

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
As a manufacturer of GF malt, I just want to put my two cents in and hope I don’t upset anyone. As craft maltsters, our scale is far smaller than any of the (few) large barley malting companies. When I started business I chose to not sell directly to homebrewers for the simple reason that I could not afford the time to package and ship small orders. I also could not afford to hire a person to do this and make a profit. It only made sense to sell wholesale to homebrew shops and craft breweries. The homebrew shops are already set up to fill small orders. I do believe that as we are able to scale up our business to meet the growing demand for GF grain, that the cost to produce the malt will drop some. This will hopefully be seen by the end consumer as a reduced cost of the raw materials we love. Cheers, Jim
 
Jim,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain the business side of malting GF grains. I may be speaking for many here in that to me it was never a personal matter about the malt costs but one simply of that the cost was high and growing higher as we ramped up our use and got excited by some successful batches with them. In other words about the time I got up enough nerve to go GFAG the prices pretty much went out of sight for the grains. That's what we're dealing with as consumers now and its made some of us a little sad.

But in the end we want you all to succeed! We know this isn't a charity on your part, its a business and you have to make a living at it or find another line of work. So, I personally wish you and the other malting companies much success because I don't want / don't have the time to malt my own grains, I just want to brew beer at a reasonable cost. Where is that level? Somewhere between where it is now and where barley is at now would be fine for me personally.

Best of luck to the business and once again all the best and thanks for chiming in. I certain found nothing upsetting with what you said and I'm glad you took the time to reply.
 
Absoloutly no offense taken Jim.
You are making a fantastic product, and I want you to be sucesfull so that you continue making it.
All of my recipies use your specialty malts...I will never go back (to millet or my crude atempts at home malting).
The rants about price are not personal...keep making great product, the market will reward you, and with luck...retail prices will come down as you grow and retail competition increases.
 
I can confirm that single-infusion works. For best results, use an amylase addition as directed. At Ghostfish we do a 2-hour mash from between 152°F to 158°F, and I honestly can't say that I have noted any major differences. I crush the grain with a 2-roller mill and seem to be getting good results with a .63 mm gap setting. The v-wire on our false bottom is gapped at about .7 mm, but unfortunately (because the screen has to be modular to remove through the manway) the gaps between screen modules exceed 3 mm in places and allow a bit of grain through.

The single most important thing I have learned when mashing with millet is DO NOT FLY SPARGE. The nature of the grain bed is to cause severe channeling of the runoff, even with copious amounts of rice hulls. You just CANNOT get a good rinse of all parts of the grain bed. If you taste the spent grain, it should be completely bland--if you find any sweetness, you left sugars behind and need to tweak your sparge method.

On our first few "big" batches we sparged the way the system was designed--i.e. a slow run-off with the sparge ring keeping 1-2" of water above the grain bed the whole time, and we achieved terrible efficiency compared to what I was getting on my 3-gallon setup where I batch sparged everything. I chalked it up to the bad crush we were getting with the grooved rollers on our mill, but when we installed our 0.5-bbl pilot system, I used the same Monster Mill I've been using for 3-gallon batches for years and got similarly bad efficiency. I decided to try fly sparging on my old 3-gallon setup just to isolate variables, and indeed! Terrible efficiency. So I tried a very tedious underlet-infusion batch sparge technique on the pilot system with LOTS of mixing at each step of the sparge, and wouldn't you know it, I was back at the same kind of efficiency I was accustomed to before!

For the record, for pale millet malt I assume a max system efficiency of 75% and a max theoretical yield of 30 PPG, and I hit my numbers within one or two points almost every single time. It also helps to do smaller batches when batch sparging--3 or 4 instead of 1 or 2. I do use rice hulls because the grain bed is pretty gummy by the 3rd sparge and after one 14-hour day on the pilot system (pre-rice hulls) I vowed never to stick the sparge like that again! I use around 1/7th of a pound of rice hulls for every pound of grain and finally have normal-length brew days again.

As to how it's going to work on the big system, I don't know yet because I'm still waiting on a set of knurled rollers. Grooved rollers at 10 grooves per inch do NOT do the job. But I intend to use a similar method as I do on the pilot--mash, vorlauf, drain, underlet, mix, vorlauf, drain, underlet, mix, vorlauf, drain. It'll be a long brew day, but 70% efficiency vs 15% efficiency makes it very worth it. I'm sure I'll eventually streamline it.

What gap setting would you use for Buckwheat?
 
My experience is with buckwheat you need to go LARGE. I do mine around 0.045" (1.1mm). At that gap every kernel gets a good crush and you can run through at a nice even slow speed. Run through twice if you think you need to. On lower gaps the buckwheat binds hard on a roller mill. I have a high torque drill I use on my mill and it nearly ripped my arm off when it suddenly bound up on buckwheat at a small gap.
 
My experience is with buckwheat you need to go LARGE. I do mine around 0.045" (1.1mm). At that gap every kernel gets a good crush and you can run through at a nice even slow speed. Run through twice if you think you need to. On lower gaps the buckwheat binds hard on a roller mill. I have a high torque drill I use on my mill and it nearly ripped my arm off when it suddenly bound up on buckwheat at a small gap.

Thanks. Looks like I will need to adjust the gap differently for buckwheat and millet.

Getting prepared for my 1st GF all grain batch, bought the IPA from GF Homebrew. My grain mill cabinet is built, I have a 3 roller MM which is motorized, 70qt Coleman xtreme cooler to mash in. Plan to do a single infusion mash per the process in this thread using enzymes.
 
Thanks. Looks like I will need to adjust the gap differently for buckwheat and millet.

Getting prepared for my 1st GF all grain batch, bought the IPA from GF Homebrew. My grain mill cabinet is built, I have a 3 roller MM which is motorized, 70qt Coleman xtreme cooler to mash in. Plan to do a single infusion mash per the process in this thread using enzymes.

I did .25" over the weekend with buckwheat on my mill. Seemed to go through fine. Although, I don't concern myself with a real good buckwheat grind.

Good luck and happy brewing!
 
Disregard my previous advice!

My mill jams on pure Buckwheat with small gaps but today, because of the recent discussion, I tried mixing the buckwheat with the millet and it went right through with a gap of 0.020". I think I always separated the buckwheat from the millet thinking they would need different gaps and because I wanted to be able to assess the effectiveness of the grind for each grain. I won't be doing that any more! I guess with a small percentage of buckwheat, the individual buckwheat seeds encountering the roller don't have enough energy to stop it. Seems obvious now; don't know why I didn't try that earlier!!!!
 
I didnt think that a single infusion mash was a reliable path forward for gluten free beers. But for my last two partial mash batches, I have done mini-single infusion mashes (with added enzymes), and they have had good results. I am now convinced that this is a reasonable way to make high quality gluten free beer. Please disregard my earlier post on this thread where I cast doubt on this method bieng apropreate for GF grains.
 
hey guys i've been muddling through attemping to grind the malt into flour and using a stepped mash, decoction as yall are talking about. I had read that the grinding of the grains, millet here, leads to a much higher efficiency. I'm assuming that everyone on this thread couldn't find a decent way to lauter it and that is why you are cracking it or not grinding it as fine? I'm about there as well, I just wanted to check to see if anyone else has found anything that can work?
 
I'm not sure if this is an obvious question or not, but do you use hulled or unhulled buckwheat?
 
I grind fine and don't have a big problem Lautering, in a zap pap style lauter tun lined with a BIAB bag.

I always use Eckert rice malt as my specialty malt (usually 3 or 4 lbs), besides being awesome malt, it has the added benefit of the rice hulls that help make a nice grain bed (even if I grind my millet very fine).

The combination of the rice malt, and the zap pap tun lined with a bag are key to easy lautering.

The buckwheat I use is hulled, like you would find in the bulk bin at a health food store. Using lots of buckwheat definitely makes lautering harder (its like adding glue to your mash), but I love the texture and head that I get when I use ~ 3 lbs of buckwheat in a batch.
 
I brewed a batch today with what I thought was a standard process for me and got crazy good yield. I usually get around 21 to 23 ppg and this batch I calculate 30ppg. I used more flaked corn then I usually use and that should help from what I have read, but I have never been above 25 ppg. I checked gravity readings twice and even checked the refractometer with water to make sure it was calibrated. Something seems wrong. I could have expected a point or two above my previous experience maybe but that is too much.
 
In my process, mash time and temperature lead to high yield.
When I have increased mash time, or raised the mash temperature (with enzymes that are stable at the increased mash temp), I get higher than expected yields.
I have goten some tannin extraction in a few batches, and have backed off on both time and temperature to adress this.
There is a sweet spot there somewhere between yield and quality, I am geting closer to it but cant claim to have found it yet.
 
The time is about the same as normal. I spend about 40 minutes around 125F and then 2 hours at 165F dropping to 155-60F by the end of the rest. I read through my previous AG batches and I did have a higher percentage of pale malt in this last batch. Maybe that and using flaked corn are the biggest contributors.

Maybe this is reaching, but I did not refrigerate the diatase enzyme this time before using it. I would not think that enzymes would have a problem with anything but very high temps, so I cannot imagine this has anything to do with it.
 
May not be the right place, but thought I'd give it a go:

Hey there, getting closer to attempting my first GFAG brewday. I was thinking of just doing a simple pale ale to begin...was thinking the following:

10lb pale millet
2lb buckwheat malt
1lb or so specialty GF malt (biscuit or crystal?)
Possibly some pale or 45l candi syrup for color if needed?

bitter at 60 with magnum
finish at 15 and 0 with Cascade and Centennial

Maybe a specialty rice a malt and/or a pale candi syrup? I've seen people say they prefer to the specialty and roasted rice malts for flavor better than some of the specialty/roasted millet malts...can anyone comment on their experience? I see that gf homebrewing has biscuit, crystal, and brown rice malts available.

Thank you!
 
That's quite similar to what I've been consistently brewing.
I use a little more millet for my base malt, usually 13lbs. But I malt my own grains and I'm always concerned about the quality, so I over compensate.
I would recommend using crystal malt (I've had great results with it) and I've been roasting malted buckwheat to a dark, chocolate colour and putting in about 0.5 lbs of that.
And the dark Candi syrup, 250ml.
I prefer it maltier than hoppy so I go easy on the bittering hops.
I think your recipe will work though.
 
For all the GF millet brewers... Have any of you ever tried beers made by Glutenberg? I'm just curious how your home brew efforts compare to a solid commercial example.
 
haven't tried glutenberg yet. hear there's another outfit called ghostfish in washington that is doing a similar thing.
 
I have never seen anything I would consider even decent for GF out there. I'm around philly as well, is there some place out of the area i can try some of these?
 
Glutenberg is distributed to NY & NJ so you might find it there. Don't think it is available in PA. Other than Greens it's the only other worth drinking. Ghostfish and Ground Breaker are good but only in OR.
 
There are a few shops right across the state line that have glutenberg. Also, check out Aurochs brewing in Pittsburgh. You can't get it outside of Pittsburgh but, it is a little closer than Oregon. I haven't tried it myself because every time I'm near there, the tap room is closed. They have weird hours.

Also, for the record, I think my beer is better than glutenberg. I'm biased though. :D
 
I have never seen anything I would consider even decent for GF out there. I'm around philly as well, is there some place out of the area i can try some of these?
You can get it at various places in NJ. Joe Canals locations has their beers.

I brought it up because I've found it to be quite a solid GF offering and I was wondering how it compared to the beers brewed with the techniques mentioned in this thread. To he honest, it doesn't seem worth the time, effort, and especially cost to maybe make something comparable to Glutenberg. I just don't think the GF brewing process is there yet unfortunately.
 
The time, effort and cost are definitely a factor and it is not worth it if you don't enjoy the process of brewing for sure. My experience is that even as a mediocre brewer, I can brew better GF beer than I can buy at any store within 100 miles of my house. If I had a professional GF brewery in my area where I could go get GF beers on tap, that might be a different story but there are none. I think it is like fresh bread ... bread fresh out of the oven is always better than packaged bread off the shelf even if the bread off the shelf is made by a professional. Fresh, unpasteurized beer can easily be better then that packaged. I welcome the day when I can buy GF beer that is better than GF beer that I brew, but I fear that day will not come any time soon. Even gluten reduced beers like Omission fall short compared to most of the ones I brew.

I buy Redbridge, Greens, Bards and New Planet and I don't complain, but they are NOT as good as mine and they won't be as good as yours.

If you don't want to go through the trouble, then there is no shame in buying the stuff off the shelf and just be glad that at least there are options! We homebrewers are all a little crazy, but I think it is rewarding when you can produce something that is superior to anything you can buy. Most barley brewers cannot say that because there are so many commercial barley brew options.
 
The time is about the same as normal. I spend about 40 minutes around 25F and then 2 hours at 165F dropping to 155-60F by the end of the rest. I read through my previous AG batches and I did have a higher percentage of pale malt in this last batch. Maybe that and using flaked corn are the biggest contributors.

Maybe this is reaching, but I did not refrigerate the diatase enzyme this time before using it. I would not think that enzymes would be good with anything but very high temps, so I cannot imagine this has anything to do with it.

When you say 25F do you mean 25C? Do you add any enzymes other than amylaze to the mash?
 
Thanks Jeremy! Ooops, yes, that is 125F for the first rest. I will edit the post. Basically I dough in at the temperature the directions say the enzymes are best at and then go up ~165F for the final rest. The final rest is per the enzyme directions and also consistent with a lot of the advice in this thread so I felt pretty good about it. The enzymes are diatase from E C Kraus:
http://www.eckraus.com/2-oz-diatase-enzyme.html
I did not use other enzymes. I have cataloged a lot of advice on other enzymes but just never got around to buying and using them.
 
Hello Group,
I just watched their video on the glutenberg web sight...nice! I malt my own Millet and roast for the my recipes at home in the equipment I have also made to suit. It takes some time to get a malt to glass this way so I'am very happy to see a brewery that has invested all its product to Gluten free. They will do well I have no doubt. I have to wait in Ontario for them to set up shipping unless I want to drive to Quebec some 12hrs away for a GF beer.
That being said I also hope that us home brewers don't give up our hobby just because we can now buy it. It's temping but it's not as rewarding. I'm still setting up my process to get the best time and efficiency. I have many things to have to prove out because as I change the malt it changes the way it brews so keeping good records is a must. I might try some enzyme to improve the natural occurring in the malts some time. Good thread info
 
Thanks for the follow ups.

Just to be clear, I was not intending to discourage people from GF brewing. I was just attempting to gauge the caliber of results from those who have had success compared against the only commercial example I've found acceptable. With a 13 month old, I personally, have found it hard to commit (time, effort, and money) to the processes that are still being tested, but this is an extremely valuable thread I will be eagerly following. The findings people continue to post I hope and believe will help solidify a GF brewing process that will consistently produce quality results.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top