Simple Electric Build....From the Pros

[P-J]

I'm a little confused on using a 3 prong dryer outlet. If you set it up like P-J shows here, can this also be used to run 120V equipment like a pump? The third prong is ground, so you do not have a separate neutral. I've read this setup is only good for 240V elements. To run your pumps, you will have to run a 120V supply line as well.

Can this three prong setup be used for 120V as well as 240V in a panel?

Sure, you CAN*, in the sense that it will work. Just take either of the 120V legs & neutral. You should probably run a separate ground wire.

*Notice this does not say you MAY do it. It may violate one or more local electrical codes, one or more sections of the NEC, etc. This is just a disclaimer; my attitude is- meh.

The building wiring terminates with a 3 prong outlet that is 240V with a neutral. This wiring is according to code in place at the time that the wiring was done and is not being altered or modified in any way. If you alter it in any way, it must be brought up to current code. Dryers (and ranges) have both 240V & 120V devices that must be accomodated. Grounding (at that time) was accomplished by a jumper that goes between the neutral inside the dryer and the cabinet frame. The wiring setup I illustrate is a method of accomplishing the same thing and also provides GFCI protection. Keep in mind that the Spa Panel must be set up as a plug in device. If it is hard wired, the building wiring must be brought to current code.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[bendiy]

Thanks for the feedback P-J. I was not aware that the third prong was neutral, but I guess it makes sense that the electricity to the dryer has to flow back somewhere.

I have easy access to a 3 prong 30amp dryer outlet right next to the garage. It will be much easier to use than trying to run a new 6-3 with ground back to the panel.

Is there any benifit to adding an extra ground to the brew rig/control panel or does the setup you illustrate provide all the grounding I need (assuming equipment and control panel are connected to the ground from the spa panel).

 

[dedicatedx]

Have you started the build? If so, did you end up using thermocouples?

 

[borny]

So, I have been watching this thread and waiting to see pictures of the final product. where is everyone placing the outlets on the project box? I wasn't planning on rushing into this build, but due to recent happenings with my brewery, I'm out of commission until I get a new power source built. And I'm at loss where to put the outlets.

Cheers!
borny

 

[hoptimal]

That home depot GE spa panel says "240W" in the heading. Does anyone know what that refers to or why that is in there? GE's website doesn't say anything like that.

 

[borny]

I think that is a typo and suppose to mean 240v, and not 240w.....

 

[mux]

 

[shortyjacobs]

I think that is a typo and suppose to mean 240v, and not 240w.....

It makes perfect sense. V is half of W, alphabetically speaking, and watts are half amps, (since W=VI, V is therefore half of what makes up W).

The math checks.

 

[hoptimal]

I think that is a typo and suppose to mean 240v, and not 240w.....

Yeah I don't know it just says "GE 50 Amp 240-Volt 240-Watt Non-Fuse Metallic Spa Panel Disconnect with GFI" Then if you click on specifications it says it again 240W.

I hope they meant 50 A X 240 V = 12kW

Maybe it is the power you get shocked with before the thing trips off -haha.

 

[rknerem]

I am about to start collecting parts for my control panel and the wiring diagram is perfect. I am not great at this stuff but I can get through it, my question to PJ is this. Do you have this diagram with the wire gauges for all of the internal wiring. I know I saw one in a thread but cant find it now. The external wiring I'm fine with, internal wiring not sure

 

[RossA32]

That looks great, Mux. Will you share a few more photos of the other exterior sides and the interior? Where'd you purchase your enclosure? Anything you'd do differently after putting it to use? I'm getting ready to start amassing the components to build one just like yours. Thanks in advance.

 

[mux]

That looks great, Mux. Will you share a few more photos of the other exterior sides and the interior? Where'd you purchase your enclosure? Anything you'd do differently after putting it to use? I'm getting ready to start amassing the components to build one just like yours. Thanks in advance.

Only picture of inside the control panel on my phone. If you have any questions during or after your build feel free to ask. If I can't answer it some one on the forum can.
Most if the parts I got from work. We demo out old electrical before we remodel, so wire, receptacles, enclosures, ect.

 

[tre9er]

Stupid question: If I were to run the 240v but don't have 240v. elements right now, can I wire things such that I can use two 120v elements in the meantime, then create another controller for 240v later when I get a 10g. system? I guess so I can interchange between 120 and 240 by only plugging in a different controller. Possible?

 

[staniel]

Subscribed! when I saw theelectricbrewery.com, I knew I had to go to an electric system, then seeing the price I just about said screw it! Glad you started this thread.

And now, some questions I have about this... Maybe an electrician is going to tell me that this is a bad idea.... but here goes.

It appears that the spa panel is hardwired directly from the main electrical panel? Seeing as my panel is already full, could I use another dryer cord and wire that into the spa panel, and plug it into my already existing 240v plug for my dryer?

 

[P-J]

...
It appears that the spa panel is hardwired directly from the main electrical panel? Seeing as my panel is already full, could I use another dryer cord and wire that into the spa panel, and plug it into my already existing 240v plug for my dryer?

That is exactly how you would want to do it. No problem.

 

[staniel]

Awesome! thanks p-j!

now to source that spa disconnect. Seems that The Home Depot prices don't match north of the border, or im looking at the wrong thing

 

[P-J]

Awesome! thanks p-j!

now to source that spa disconnect. Seems that The Home Depot prices don't match north of the border, or im looking at the wrong thing

That is true. There is a Home Depot in Watertown, NY that is about 36 miles away from you. Might be worth the trip. No?

Watertown,NY #6174 (35.39 mi)
391 College Heights
Watertown, NY 13601
(315)788-8539

 

[kpr121]

I'd also like to know people's thoughts about what type and how many thermocouples to run. Also if you have one for each HLT and BK, how to wire up? Do you need a separate switch?

 

[P-J]

I'd also like to know people's thoughts about what type and how many thermocouples to run. Also if you have one for each HLT and BK, how to wire up? Do you need a separate switch?

I'd suggest that you use Liquid Tight RTD Sensor, 2” Probe, Weldless Fitting from Auber Instruments. You only need one and it would be setup in your HLT. The boil kettle does not need a temp probe as you would be controlling it with the PID in manual mode.

 

[kpr121]

I'd suggest that you use Liquid Tight RTD Sensor, 2” Probe, Weldless Fitting from Auber Instruments. You only need one and it would be setup in your HLT. The boil kettle does not need a temp probe as you would be controlling it with the PID in manual mode.

Thanks P-J. Would the 4 inch probe give more accurate readings? I went ahead and ordered two last night thinking I would need both (damn drunken online purchases), but now that makes sense with the BK not needing it . Unless I want to set the temp at 208 and add some sort of alarm, but I dont think that will be necessary the way I usually brew.

So I guess I will be putting a 4 inch temp probe in the classified section, unless anyone here wants it?

 

[bagpiperjosh]

Thanks P-J. Would the 4 inch probe give more accurate readings? I went ahead and ordered two last night thinking I would need both (damn drunken online purchases), but now that makes sense with the BK not needing it . Unless I want to set the temp at 208 and add some sort of alarm, but I dont think that will be necessary the way I usually brew.

So I guess I will be putting a 4 inch temp probe in the classified section, unless anyone here wants it?

im collecting parts for my build now... i may need that. i'd imagine that would work fine in my mash tun or hlt.

 

[Gussymo]

I'd suggest that you use Liquid Tight RTD Sensor, 2” Probe, Weldless Fitting from Auber Instruments. You only need one and it would be setup in your HLT. The boil kettle does not need a temp probe as you would be controlling it with the PID in manual mode.

If it is an auber pid i believe you still need a temp probe connected when using manual mode.

 

[P-J]

If it is an auber pid i believe you still need a temp probe connected when using manual mode.

That's true. However with a single PID setup you only need a single temp probe. There is no need for a second probe.

 

[kpr121]

That's true. However with a single PID setup you only need a single temp probe. There is no need for a second probe.

So I would need to move it (one single RTD) from my HLT to the BK once I wanted to begin the boil?
Edit: Or is it only necessary to have one plugged in, and I can leave it in the HLT?

That's true. However with a single PID setup you only need a single temp probe. There is no need for a second probe.

I will let you know!

 

[tre9er]

I believe you simply need to have one plugged in. If you're using the PID in manual mode you don't care about the temp probe but the PID still wants it connected.

 

[P-J]

So I would need to move it (one single RTD) from my HLT to the BK once I wanted to begin the boil?
Edit: Or is it only necessary to have one plugged in, and I can leave it in the HLT?
---
I will let you know!

You would leave it in the HLT. The PID only needs to have a probe connected to it for it to function. When you go to boil mode, you would be setting the PID to manual mode and regulating the element power in that mode.

Keep in mind that water at a simmer boil is 212°F and a raging boil is at 212°F.
In other words, you cannot control the boil rate using a temp probe. It just needs to be connected for the PID to function.

 

[kpr121]

Awesome thanks for the quick responses. Sorry if this thread was sidetracked a little bit. Bagpiperjosh PM me about the temp probe if you would like. Seems like we live fairly close, may make the transaction a bit cheaper.

 

[JoshAZ]

View attachment 46989



View attachment 46990

What box did you use?

 

[JoshAZ]

Is it possible to go strait from the spa panel to an element? I don't have the cash to get a PID as of right now. I understand that to control it I would have to unplug it to control the temp. I have a 4 prong dryer outlet. And a Camco folded back element.

 

[bdjohns1]

Is it possible to go strait from the spa panel to an element? I don't have the cash to get a PID as of right now. I understand that to control it I would have to unplug it to control the temp. I have a 4 prong dryer outlet. And a Camco folded back element.

Possible? Yes. Foolish and/or dangerous? Also yes.

Plugs wear out. They're not designed to have things repeatedly inserted and removed over and over. I replaced enough 110 outlets in my last house where the contacts were so worn that looking at a plug funny could make it fall out. Plus, extra strain on the cord could damage the conductors.

If you don't have cash for the PID, at least get a proper switch rated for 240v/30a.