Side By Side Build Keezer/Fermentation

[drkwoods]

I am just digging into a Side by Side Fridge. I bought a Whirlpool ED25DQ on Craigslist and the wiring looks very similar to yours.

I have a few questions.

1. Did your Fridge have damper where it appears that your transfer fan is located. My unit does that controls the freezer temp via a dial and mechanical linkage to the damper/
2. It appears that my unit pulls air from the evaporator fan (above the coils inside the freezer) through the damper reference above. Did your unit have a similar setup?
3. Did you make the sheetmetal housing for the transfer fan? How did you cut a hole? How did you mount?
A couple of questions:

1. Yes I simply opened that all the way
2. Yes exactly
3. Yes sheet metal and pop rivets / I cut the fridge wall for the transfer fan with a Dremel metal thin cut wheel and got a good CFM fan that could handle 30*f air. I mounted that inside the shroud and the used aluminum bar riveted to the shroud and sheet metal screws to hold it to the wall

 

[fall-line]

drkwoods, thanks for sharing all of these details - it's very helpful for us. I'm struggling with a very similar situation. I've got a side by side, removed the damper (it was a stepper motor and couldn't be easily controlled by my temp controllers), and installed basically the same fan as you (different branding, but it's 110v 68cfm). Cooling the fridge side down works great with this setup when the ambient air temperature in the garage is greater than the set point. I'm finding though if I need to heat the fridge side, I get a lot of hot air bleeding back to the freezer side when the heater kicks in. I've tried all sorts of things to fashion a flap/baffle over the fan ensure only one way air flow. The problem is that since there are two openings (top and bottom) between the chambers, even if I had perfect 1 way air control on both openings, there is still enough air movement from the evaporator fan (which sits on top of the coils in my freezer) when the cooling cycle is running to make sure air is circulating, even when my "baffle" fan is off.

This creates a situation where the compressor and the heater are working against each other to try and hold temperatures on each side. The heater kicks on to attempt to keep the fridge at 65ºF, which causes some hot air to bleed back into the freezer, which causes the compressor to kick on to try and keep the freezer at 38ºF, which then causes more cold air to cycle back into the fridge side, and the cycle repeats. I have found that I can sometimes hold both sides within a few degrees of the desired set points, but the freezer compressor runs pretty much constantly to achieve this.

I'm considering just separating the two chambers for the winter, since the air temperature in the garage is usually below my desired fermentation point (for ales), but when I'm out in the garage and brewing the air temps rise pretty quickly (I have a natural gas heater in there, that I only use when I'm in the building). I'd also like to have the option to lower the fridge side to lagger temps without stuffing and un-stuffing insulation each time.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

 

[kirkenka]

drkwoods, thanks for posting and answering my questions. It has made my project progress alot quicker.

I was able to wire up the controller and get everything working. I am trying to get the shelving off the inside of the doors. I was guessing that there would be screws hidden behind the seals but that is not the case. I tried using a putty knife to pry them off with no luck.

Did you figure out an easy way to do this?

Thanks

 

[drkwoods]

drkwoods, thanks for sharing all of these details - it's very helpful for us. I'm struggling with a very similar situation. I've got a side by side, removed the damper (it was a stepper motor and couldn't be easily controlled by my temp controllers), and installed basically the same fan as you (different branding, but it's 110v 68cfm). Cooling the fridge side down works great with this setup when the ambient air temperature in the garage is greater than the set point. I'm finding though if I need to heat the fridge side, I get a lot of hot air bleeding back to the freezer side when the heater kicks in. I've tried all sorts of things to fashion a flap/baffle over the fan ensure only one way air flow. The problem is that since there are two openings (top and bottom) between the chambers, even if I had perfect 1 way air control on both openings, there is still enough air movement from the evaporator fan (which sits on top of the coils in my freezer) when the cooling cycle is running to make sure air is circulating, even when my "baffle" fan is off.

This creates a situation where the compressor and the heater are working against each other to try and hold temperatures on each side. The heater kicks on to attempt to keep the fridge at 65ºF, which causes some hot air to bleed back into the freezer, which causes the compressor to kick on to try and keep the freezer at 38ºF, which then causes more cold air to cycle back into the fridge side, and the cycle repeats. I have found that I can sometimes hold both sides within a few degrees of the desired set points, but the freezer compressor runs pretty much constantly to achieve this.

I'm considering just separating the two chambers for the winter, since the air temperature in the garage is usually below my desired fermentation point (for ales), but when I'm out in the garage and brewing the air temps rise pretty quickly (I have a natural gas heater in there, that I only use when I'm in the building). I'd also like to have the option to lower the fridge side to lagger temps without stuffing and un-stuffing insulation each time.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

Yea I would block the passageways between the chambers during heating mode (winter). That would probably help a lot. Also don't forget the freezer side will still go through a defrost cycle and you will see the freezer temporarily come up to 35-50 degrees for a little bit. I have placed my temp prob in that tube of about 6oz of 100proof brandy and that "damps" the swing of the temp in the freezer during that cycle. I know you didn't ask or mention that. But I have panicked a little when I kept seeing that temp go up thinking the heater on my fridge side was doin it. And it turned out it wasn't. Double check that

For lagering (which I haven't done yet) my plan is to add a fan at that bottom that pushes air from fridge back to freezer through the "return" hole. That way a pretty strong cycle between the two boxes is set up. Not sure what you did with insulation ?

 

[drkwoods]

drkwoods, thanks for posting and answering my questions. It has made my project progress alot quicker.

I was able to wire up the controller and get everything working. I am trying to get the shelving off the inside of the doors. I was guessing that there would be screws hidden behind the seals but that is not the case. I tried using a putty knife to pry them off with no luck.

Did you figure out an easy way to do this?

Thanks

What I did with those "plastic tabs" was to use a cut wheel on a Dremel. (The plastic blade) and grind them down and off. Be careful as they have metal inside them and I saw sparks cutting one off. So unplug the fridge for sure when drilling or cutting off stuff.

 

[fall-line]

Yea I would block the passageways between the chambers during heating mode (winter). That would probably help a lot. Also don't forget the freezer side will still go through a defrost cycle and you will see the freezer temporarily come up to 35-50 degrees for a little bit. I have placed my temp prob in that tube of about 6oz of 100proof brandy and that "damps" the swing of the temp in the freezer during that cycle. I know you didn't ask or mention that. But I have panicked a little when I kept seeing that temp go up thinking the heater on my fridge side was doin it. And it turned out it wasn't. Double check that

For lagering (which I haven't done yet) my plan is to add a fan at that bottom that pushes air from fridge back to freezer through the "return" hole. That way a pretty strong cycle between the two boxes is set up. Not sure what you did with insulation ?

Thanks for the reply on this. I went ahead and blocked both openings with some rubber insulation (I cutup an old mousepad, works great), and as expected I am able to maintain my temps fairly precisely (a solid 38ºF on the freezer side and 65ºF on the fridge side.) I think it would be fine to just leave it like this and plan on removing the insulation when I want to go to summer mode a couple of times a year. I'm not one to leave well enough alone though so I've sketched up a solution using an Arduino and a stepper motor to automatically control a flap over the fan on the upper hole when the fridge cooling cycle kicks in. The idea is that when cooling is required the 4" 68cfm fan will kick in and the stepper motor will open a 4" flap. When not running, the flap will shut tight against a rubber seal. Basically this is what the fridge was doing originally before I started modifying it (minus the fan). I ordered the parts for the project today and will gelt started on the build in a few weeks. I'll document the process in my big garage build thread for anyone interested. It'll be overkill, but should be fun!

I had experienced the brief temperature swings due to the defrost element as you described. It had me concerned for a bit, but after reading the fridge wiring schematic, I understod it was just doing it's job. As you mentioned, so long as the temp probe is buffered by some thermal mass (and not hanging in the air right next to the defrost element as it was) the swing is hardly noticeable.

 

[drkwoods]

Can't wait to see the flap control idea. I may copy that! Cheers!!

 

[fall-line]

Here is the sketchup of the plan (feel free to let me know if you'd rather me not post images in your thread and I'll remove).

I'm expecting to be able to just make one of these and leave the other (bottom) opening wide open. As long as the seal on the motorized flap is tight enough, no air should be able to be displaced through the bottom hole either. We'll see if I can achieve that.

I've got the arduino and the motors on order. It'll be a fun rainy day project. Fortunately, it's November in Seattle. It won't take long for me to find a rainy day!

 

[kirkenka]

What size sheet metal did you use to line the inside of the doors. I was hoping to stay away from sheet metal but looks like it is my only option. Where did you find the sheet metal

 

[drkwoods]

What size sheet metal did you use to line the inside of the doors. I was hoping to stay away from sheet metal but looks like it is my only option. Where did you find the sheet metal

I used 30 gauge galvanized sheet metal
Benner metals Fullerton ca. Great place!
Www.bennermetals.com

 

[kirkenka]

I am progressing along nicely thanks to all of drkwoods hard work. One more question and I think I will have it. How did you verify there are no coils located where you drilled for your keg shelving. The cold coils are in the freezer and I believe the return is underneath but am not 100% sure and don't want to screw up when I am this close to drilling for my taps.

 

[DrPhilGood]

Can you fit a full sanke on the ferm side?

 

[drkwoods]

Can you fit a full sanke on the ferm side?

Yup. You need 16" X 24" minimums and it just fits in mine. Here is my ferm side with 4 cornies a 5 gal fermenter and a 1500ml starter.

Might wanna beef up the shelf significantly for a sanke though.

 

[drkwoods]

I am progressing along nicely thanks to all of drkwoods hard work. One more question and I think I will have it. How did you verify there are no coils located where you drilled for your keg shelving. The cold coils are in the freezer and I believe the return is underneath but am not 100% sure and don't want to screw up when I am this close to drilling for my taps.

You are correct that the evaporator coil is in the freezer an the condenser outside and underneath. The only worries in the walls are the wires to the mullion and stile heaters and interior light switch wiring. back wall is anyone's guess? LOL although I did have to drill through it, I started with a tiny drill and just penetrated the metal and then slowly went bigger till I was sure nothing was in the way. Being careful each time to only drill the metal and not penetrate if possible more than an mm each time.

For Keg Shelving:
I used the existing shelving brackets and added brackets on the sides using very short sheet metal screws and trying to stay near where previous brackets pegs were assuming they wouldn't put those pegs near anything risky. I also assumed the sides and middle have no coils. I can tell you there are wires running thru the sides of the fridge. I drilled into one and popped the breakers. After that fix I grabbed my voltage detector and used it like a stud finder and found out where I cannot drill. After that I used the method above each time I had to drill.
GO SLOW. BE CAREFUL. YOU'LL BE FINE

 

[kirkenka]

I have at least roughed in my install and see some initial issues and would appreciate any suggestions.

My initial plans didn't call for a heater since my unit will be in the unfinished part of my basement, I don't have to worry about extreme temperatures. One of the relays turns on the compressor circuit and the other turns on a fan to draw air from the freezer (keg) side to the refrigerator side (fermentation).

A couple of early observations as I only finished wiring tonight.

1. I am surprised how quickly the temperature rises in the Freezer side and requires the compressor to turn on again. I currently have the setpoint at 44 with a 5 degree deadband. I am starting to think the temperature probe in a liquid is a must to eliminate this, or will actually having kegs in the freezer eventually help this. Drkwoods - Is your liquid container the red container mounted on the door? You said you got them a Lowe's but I didn't see them? Did you use a thermowell?

2. My Fermentation side temperature looks like it is equalizing toward the freezer setpoint. Very little data at this point but it is trending that way. I pluged the whol at the bottom so my only opening between the freezer is at the top where the damper once was and the fan is no located.

I am thinking about buying a small ceramic heater and using it and disabling the cooling fan for now. Long term I may need another controller to use for the freezer and utilize the dual output for the fermentation side with a heater and fan control.

Any thoughts?

 

[drkwoods]

I have at least roughed in my install and see some initial issues and would appreciate any suggestions.

My initial plans didn't call for a heater since my unit will be in the unfinished part of my basement, I don't have to worry about extreme temperatures. One of the relays turns on the compressor circuit and the other turns on a fan to draw air from the freezer (keg) side to the refrigerator side (fermentation).

A couple of early observations as I only finished wiring tonight.

1. I am surprised how quickly the temperature rises in the Freezer side and requires the compressor to turn on again. I currently have the setpoint at 44 with a 5 degree deadband. I am starting to think the temperature probe in a liquid is a must to eliminate this, or will actually having kegs in the freezer eventually help this. Drkwoods - Is your liquid container the red container mounted on the door? You said you got them a Lowe's but I didn't see them? Did you use a thermowell?

2. My Fermentation side temperature looks like it is equalizing toward the freezer setpoint. Very little data at this point but it is trending that way. I pluged the whol at the bottom so my only opening between the freezer is at the top where the damper once was and the fan is no located.

I am thinking about buying a small ceramic heater and using it and disabling the cooling fan for now. Long term I may need another controller to use for the freezer and utilize the dual output for the fermentation side with a heater and fan control.

Any thoughts?

1. Yes full kegs in there will buffer the heat swings because of thermal mass. The door things I used are called "Viewtainers"
www.viewtainer.com/. Any big box place has them on the fastener aisle. I put cheap 100 proof brandy in mine to avoid freezing solid. When I ferment I've been duct taping the probe to the outside middle of the fermenter.

2. I'm not sure how your system is responding,, but it'll be sorta inconsistent when empty / Obviously with beer in there it'll respond slower and have less swings. I think the ceramic heater is a good idea because it just ensures the ability to temperature correct in both directions. Im sure your doing this so you can walk away and have confidence that your hitting your temps and getting consistent ferments. Add the heater it's so worth it! Get a dual stage control like a LOVE for the fermentation side and then dedicate the single stage controller to the freezer. My temps are so solid it's amazing. I can keep a fermentation dead on 66f and let it rise the next week a degree of two. Its a joy to have that kind of control and your beer will make great strides in quality. By the way my bottom return is wide open and my fermentation side is at 66f right now. The freezer side is right on 34f and the fan and compressor are cycling on/off about once every 3-4 minutes. So I'm happy with that. I run a -1.5 differential temp. I think it was yurirage? Who helped me

 

[kirkenka]

Thank you so much for the help. One more question. Did you put the sensor directly in the brandy or use a thermal well

 

[drkwoods]

Thank you so much for the help. One more question. Did you put the sensor directly in the brandy or use a thermal well

Directly in the brandy. It's a stainless steel tip so I figured it would be ok

 

[drkwoods]

I thought I'd show the drilled holes near the front sides and close up of my beefed up shelving. This shelf can easily hold 150 pounds now without severe warping and remains adjustable with the two back wall brackets and these two up front on the sides. The drilled holes are for CO2 & beer lines to run outside the fridge to either a jockey box or my bottle filler. I've drilled access ports to the outside on the freezer side too. The holes are plugged up with 1/2" PVC pipe stuffed with insulation and topped with an Anchor brewing Cap. When installed they just looks like cap magnets on the fridge.

 

[hawkinst7]

Quick question, when you removed the shelving on the door did the gasket come off as well. If so how did you adhere it to the door when you put the sheets of stainless steel on the door?

 

[drkwoods]

Oh yea simple. The gasket fits around the plastic door shelving. It pops
Out from inside that gasket and I simply replaced it with a sheet of galvanized metal. Fit it into and under the gasket and tighten the screws

 

[coldbeerisgood]

This thread is awesome. I used your info to build one of my own. My only personal touch was an always-on outlet for my stir plate. Thanks!.

 

[Timzabel12]

I have to say I love my fridgestein, learned a lot off all of the other side by side projectsView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424027440.291903.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424027462.542293.jpg

 

[Zepth]

Thank you for the inspiration. I've recently acquired a side by side with a slightly different intention in mind. Primary fermenting on the fridge side, lagerator on the left. Solves the whole problem of "dedicating the ferm chamber to a lager" for so long. I figure as long as the lager side is cooler than the fermenting side it should work perfectly.

I might try and use some sort of automatic baffle design. Something simple like the one for a laundry vent. Flaps open from airflow, gravity drops 'em when the fan stops.

 

[Timzabel12]

That's what I have on mine, I have realized though that I need a stronger fan on my air box.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425046885.363157.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425046909.344522.jpg

 

[Zepth]

So my build is so close to being finished I can taste it. Got all the cleaning of previous owner done, shelving mounted and set in place, all the wires routed. Just need the control panel parts to arrive and be wired in.

On the left we have an empty keg for show on top, full on the bottom. It'll need some thermal mass on that side once it gets up and running, it will also let me pre-chill a keg before dropping it into the keezer. If I put a different medium in for the shelf I can fit 2 kegs on it and still close the door. Shelf bracket rating: 375 lb.

On the right we've got 2x 5 gal carboys with blow off tube. And a spoon. The tube on that one wanted to kink for some reason, and I grabbed the first thing I saw that I could use to prop it up. On the bottom is a 13 gal barrel fermenter. Currently doesn't seal up tight, I'm not concerned using it as a primary. By moving the gasket I can get it air tight but don't have a grommet for an airlock at this point. Also have plenty of room on that shelf for another barrel instead of carboys. Shelf bracket rating: 250 lb.

I may let paranoia get the better of me and toss up a couple brackets opposite the current ones on the right side just to be extra safe. Even though they're at less than half the rated capacity, and that said rated capacity likely exceeds the breaking point by a good margin as well. Yes there's a bit of a tilt to the liquid in the photo, but a level on the top of the fridge indicates similar. The bundled towel (to cushion the carboys from screw heads) is also a little thicker on one side in the photo. After hoisting them into place I gave the bracket a good leaning on just to make sure it had plenty of strength left.

Very happy with the results so far. Even though it is currently functionally useless as the temp controllers haven't arrived yet. At least I've got everything ready for when they do arrive and it should become a pain free wiring job. Thanks to those who posted before me, without your inspiration I'm not sure I could have made this happen.