should we really be mashing pumpkin?

[hardrain]

Hey all, so I'm after something a little strange: we had a lot of great pumpkins and squash from the garden this year, and I'm trying to make an unspiced beer where that natural flavor of the cucurbits is observable. Frankly, so far, I've not had much luck. Okay, "no" luck.

I'm also seen several instances now of people brewing "pumpkin" beer that is spice only, and even a triangle test that concluded it's not commonly identifiable: http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/05/it...umpkin-make-a-difference-exbeeriment-results/

But I'm undeterred for now. I've also been reading more on malt and by extension the science of the mash. I'm wondering if mashing roasted pumpkin, a commonly advised step, is causing too much of the sugars to break down from enzymatic activity and ferment out. Adding straight to the boil would presumably leave more long-chain starches in tact, and adding post fermentation to a super dry beer could be more available, obviously.

...but this is just my non-STEP major theory, and hard scientists have thoughts on what's actually happening to a roasted pumpkin's sugars and starches in the mash? Variables I don't know:

-What kinds of sugars and starches are in a pumpkin, and what does roasting do to those sugars and starches?
-Do enzymes common in a barley mash have the ability to affect those post-roast starches?
-Does common ale yeast (I've used mostly american and english ale yeasts...) break down what's put into the wort from a roasted & mashed pumpkin?
-What is "real pumpkin flavor" anyway?

 

[billl]

Taste is is the mouth of the beholder... or something like that. Try a few methods and see what tastes best to you.

As general rules though, the flavorful sugars produced from roasting are at least partially non-fermentable. (the more the roast, the less fermentable) To me though, they don't taste particularly "pumpkiny" if they are too caramelized.

You can certainly put pumpkin directly into the boil. It's even more of a mess though since there is nothing to filter it out.

Just my 2 cents, but to me, pumpkin is a very subtle flavor. If you want to taste it, you need to rest of the ingredients to really take a back seat. The typical amber/brown bases will just end up tasting like an amber. The only beer I've brewed were you could taste pumpkin itself was a saison base - pilsner and simple sugar - with lots of pumpkin in the mash. Low IBU. No finishing hops. A fruity or spicy yeast to bring that aspect to the forefront.

 

[Auger]

I've tried a lot of different methods for pumpkin beer. My base is an american wheat beer, so pretty light in flavor to begin with, which I feel makes it a little easier to pick out the pumpkin flavor since it is so subtle. I've tried steaming and mashing, roasting and mashing, roasting and boiling, roasting and adding to primary. The most pronounced flavor for me came from the last method. I halve the pumpkin and roast until soft, then scrape it out of the shell into the primary and rack the post-boil wort on top of it, and pitch yeast. I do it in the primary vs. secondary because it leaves behind about 6" of slop in the bottom of the bucket, so I rack off the pumpkin into secondary and let it settle for another week or so just to get a cleaner final product into the keg.

 

[zoomzilla]

The "pumpkin" flavor in every commercial product is nothing more than a combination of spices. If that is the flavor you desire there is no need to use real pumpkin.

 

[Auger]

I think that was the OP's point...he wants to brew a beer that actually tastes like pumpkin, not one that tastes like some combination of pie spice.

 

[bob1852]

I think that was the OP's point...he wants to brew a beer that actually tastes like pumpkin

Then he should use butternut squash.

 

[hardrain]

Then he should use butternut squash.

Ha, that's a gray area I am willing to enter...and yes, I'm after actual pumpkin. I am going to be using several squashes as well -- kamo kamo & candyroaster we grew this fall.

These are awesome ideas, thanks, and good to know some of the options have been tested (thanks Auger!). I hadn't thought of trying a saison base. I'm going to brew a good basic saison recipe I've tried and give the roast/primary approach a shot. I'll report back!

 

[applescrap]

Hey all, so I'm after something a little strange: we had a lot of great pumpkins and squash from the garden this year, and I'm trying to make an unspiced beer where that natural flavor of the cucurbits is observable. Frankly, so far, I've not had much luck. Okay, "no" luck.

I'm also seen several instances now of people brewing "pumpkin" beer that is spice only, and even a triangle test that concluded it's not commonly identifiable: http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/05/it...umpkin-make-a-difference-exbeeriment-results/

But I'm undeterred for now. I've also been reading more on malt and by extension the science of the mash. I'm wondering if mashing roasted pumpkin, a commonly advised step, is causing too much of the sugars to break down from enzymatic activity and ferment out. Adding straight to the boil would presumably leave more long-chain starches in tact, and adding post fermentation to a super dry beer could be more available, obviously.

...but this is just my non-STEP major theory, and hard scientists have thoughts on what's actually happening to a roasted pumpkin's sugars and starches in the mash? Variables I don't know:

-What kinds of sugars and starches are in a pumpkin, and what does roasting do to those sugars and starches?
-Do enzymes common in a barley mash have the ability to affect those post-roast starches?
-Does common ale yeast (I've used mostly american and english ale yeasts...) break down what's put into the wort from a roasted & mashed pumpkin?
-What is "real pumpkin flavor" anyway?

Read my recipe and post in one of the pumpkin forums. Not only would you be the first to do so but also the answer you seek is there. I spent a long time picking that recipe I mean a long time and it is what you are after. The pumpkin is added to the boil and I also put it in the fermenter because you want the pumpkin on the beers as long as possible it will have a huge trub. Pumpkin is a light delicate flavor that's why that recipe is so lightly spiced I wanted to brew a pumpkin that I would want to drink a second one of most of these spicy turds are not that. I think it's like a half teaspoon for 5 gallons on each spice it will be good with squash too. I'm sure there's better grains to be had but I've made that two years in a row and its killer I would post it for you but you gotta find it

 

[hardrain]

Whoa there's a pumpkin section?

 

[applescrap]

Whoa there's a pumpkin section?

Yeah a couple big threads . Really there are endless possibilities. Did you try pumpkick from new Belgian by chance it was cranberry and pumpkin

 

[ryan053]

I brewed a coffee pumpkin ale around the beginning of November. We went to the store and bought a couple of the cheap jack-o-lantern pumpkins the day after Halloween. We then roasted them as if we were making pumpkin pie. After they were roasted I put them into the blender with a small amount of water to make more of a puree than a stringy pumpkin mush.

I added five pounds to the mash and added five pounds to the boil. There weren't any problems with either addition. I had another five pounds that I was going to "dryhop" with, but got a little nervous cause I didn't want to add any suspicious bacteria to the beer. I ended up going to a local wholesale like store and bought a six pound can of unseasoned "pumpkin" puree and used that instead for my "dryhop".

The pumpkin taste took time to develop. Even with all the pumpkin I added initially there wasn't much pumpkin flavor to it. Now that it has been a while though the pumpkin flavor is present.

I brew ten gallon batches too, so 16 pounds of pumpkin may be a little much for a five gallon brew.

 

[skitter]

I used the recipe on here in the recipe section called Thunderstruck Pumpkin, it worked out real well. You could taste the vegetable note from the pumpkin and mine was lightly spiced. As a fan of Pumpkin Pie, brewing a beer that tasted like I was eating pie was a win for me. Just be careful not to overcarb, I had a bottle bomb that ended up making the house smell like yeasty cinnamon for a while....

 

[billl]

I brewed a coffee pumpkin ale around the beginning of November. We went to the store and bought a couple of the cheap jack-o-lantern pumpkins the day after Halloween. We then roasted them as if we were making pumpkin pie. After they were roasted I put them into the blender with a small amount of water to make more of a puree than a stringy pumpkin mush.

I added five pounds to the mash and added five pounds to the boil. There weren't any problems with either addition. I had another five pounds that I was going to "dryhop" with, but got a little nervous cause I didn't want to add any suspicious bacteria to the beer. I ended up going to a local wholesale like store and bought a six pound can of unseasoned "pumpkin" puree and used that instead for my "dryhop".

The pumpkin taste took time to develop. Even with all the pumpkin I added initially there wasn't much pumpkin flavor to it. Now that it has been a while though the pumpkin flavor is present.

I brew ten gallon batches too, so 16 pounds of pumpkin may be a little much for a five gallon brew.

Those carving pumpkins are not for eating or brewing. They really have no flavor and are bred only for appearance and storage. If you can taste any pumpkin, it's from the canned pie pumpkins.

 

[m00ps]

Ill mash anything. Just lemme at it. Mashed 2 boxes of captain crunch once

 

[applescrap]

Ill mash anything. Just lemme at it. Mashed 2 boxes of captain crunch once

Im with you i thought hell just throw a couple pies straight in. In Fort Collins a brewery bought the stores out of that vampire chocolate cereal for some reason . Then you have Denver brewery which was a home brewer making that graham cracker Porter

 

[applescrap]

Ill mash anything. Just lemme at it. Mashed 2 boxes of captain crunch once

Im with you i thought hell just throw a couple pies straight in. In Fort Collins a brewery bought the stores out of that vampire chocolate cereal for some reason . Then you have Denver brewery which was a home brewer making that graham cracker Porter btw what were you making and how did it turn out

 

[m00ps]

Im with you i thought hell just throw a couple pies straight in. In Fort Collins a brewery bought the stores out of that vampire chocolate cereal for some reason . Then you have Denver brewery which was a home brewer making that graham cracker Porter btw what were you making and how did it turn out

It was a reeses peanut butter cup stout. I used both powdered PB2 and captain crunch to get a more noticeable PB flavor. Turns out the preservatives in those cereals actually help the flavor survive the boil I think

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Be sure you know what pumpkin without spices really tastes like. Buy a can of unspiced pumpkin pie filling and taste it. I stopped using any pumpkin a year ago. But I want my pumpkin spice beer to taste like pumpkin pie, so my goal is likely different than yours. I found my solution by adding the spices in the last 10 minutes of the boil, like an aroma addition. FWIW, the most important spice note to me is the ginger.

 

[skitter]

Be sure you know what pumpkin without spices really tastes like. Buy a can of unspiced pumpkin pie filling and taste it. I stopped using any pumpkin a year ago. But I want my pumpkin spice beer to taste like pumpkin pie, so my goal is likely different than yours. I found my solution by adding the spices in the last 10 minutes of the boil, like an aroma addition. FWIW, the most important spice note to me is the ginger.

Agreed, I forgot the Ginger on mine... noticeable difference

 

[ryan053]

Those carving pumpkins are not for eating or brewing. They really have no flavor and are bred only for appearance and storage. If you can taste any pumpkin, it's from the canned pie pumpkins.

Not to get into a discussion about the merits of which pumpkin to use for brewing or cooking, you can indeed brew with and eat jack-o-lantern pumpkins. Sure pie pumpkins are better suited for making a pie because of the differences in flesh consistency and sugar content, but when I see pumpkins for 25 cents each I can't turn down an opportunity to brew with them. Many people make pumpkin pies out of jack-o-lantern pumpkins.

Also canned pumpkin isn't really pumpkin. From what I have been able to find out its closer to a butternut squash.

 

[skitter]

Not to get into a discussion about the merits of which pumpkin to use for brewing or cooking, you can indeed brew with and eat jack-o-lantern pumpkins. Sure pie pumpkins are better suited for making a pie because of the differences in flesh consistency and sugar content, but when I see pumpkins for 25 cents each I can't turn down an opportunity to brew with them. Many people make pumpkin pies out of jack-o-lantern pumpkins.

Also canned pumpkin isn't really pumpkin. From what I have been able to find out its closer to a butternut squash.

Canned Pumpkin if you get Libby's specifically states Pumpkin. However, I always buy Pie Pumpkins for my beers... and Caramelize them.

 

[afro_lou]

I don't know, I think Gish is where it's really at...