Quantcast

Should I use Amylase?

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
Ok, measured gravity. And it dropped to .998 or whatever it is. Iirc, I threw the enzyme in after fermentation. Crazy. Had a very pleasant apricot smell to it? Tastes exactly like the last batch, same recipe, same process, same ingredients. I could try and convince myself the taste is drier. But doubt i would point that out in blind taste test. Like seemingly every young lager I get acetaldehyde. I wonder if the apricot is just the golden promise? Iirc, that makes this beer that only used 7 pounds of grain 5.7 per ABv. That's pretty rad! It's got a little starsan circle round it.
Screenshot_20190621-202436_Gallery.jpeg
20190621_190704.jpeg
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
Ok, measured gravity. And it dropped to .998 or whatever it is. Iirc,
That's an interesting experiment scrappy. I'm brewing lagers next, might follow your lead on this.

Regarding off flavors, I brewed an octoberfest last spring, kegged it. I drank one of the kegs right away, but (literally) forgot about #2 in my fermentation fridge. It sat all summer and I opened it in the late fall. The flavor changed pretty dramatically. Slight odd fruitiness, presumably from yeast, was gone completely. That stored keg went through several cycles of 65F and 35F while I was fermenting other beers in there. I'll probably do the same thing this year.
 

Lefou

Danged rascally furt
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
2,241
Reaction score
1,126
Location
East of Filthadelphia, south of Nyack
It's rumored the Bud folks use an extended mash to get a more highly fermentable wort.
If you're using rice - or corn, like Coors - a 3:1 base malt (like pale 2-row or 6 row) to adjunct ratio with a low-end mash temp that's extended to 2 hours can get you a very nice conversion efficiency.
Adding the enzyme is extra insurance at that point. I've done some silly home experiments with all base malt and low mash temps and have gotten beers down to 1.004 measured with hydrometer before bottle carbing.
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
Second that. I heard a beersmith podcast on lagers with chris white and he said he puts them in a carboy and doesn't touch them until they are crystal clear. I nursed this last keg along 6 months plus I am getting them pretty filled and it is much better, I perceive anyways. I am definetly enjoying this brut light lager. You should give it a go.
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
So drinking off this keg heavily. It's nice there remains a perceptible dryness to it, although it seems almost like I put it there vs being there naturally. If that makes any sense and it could all be in my head. Love the strength and not drinking a bunch of carbs. I noticed the bag is huge and you only need a half tsp. This is like a lifetime supply. I could send some to you passed?
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
So drinking off this keg heavily. It's nice there remains a perceptible dryness to it, although it seems almost like I put it there vs being there naturally. If that makes any sense and it could all be in my head. Love the strength and not drinking a bunch of carbs. I noticed the bag is huge and you only need a half tsp. This is like a lifetime supply. I could send some to you passed?
Thanks but I'll just Amazon my own. When I do it, I'm going to split the batch and do an apples/apples comparison.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
Miller Lite comes from my hometown in Maumee, OH. If you can tell me why, you win the interwebz.
Oops, forgot to answer my own question. In 1966 Maumee Bay Brewing Company was sold and the company that bought it started brewing a beer called Meister Brau there, and also a Lite version of that. In 1972, Miller bought it all and relabeled Meister Brau Lite as Miller Lite. Yes, this lite beer used gluco-amylase to get rid of all starch and minimize calories. They weren't the first to do this, but close to it ( search Joseph Owades and Gablingers Diet Beer - Owades deserves your attention for sure regarding the current topic).

The whole story is here: Buckeye Beer: The History and Rebirth of Toledo's Second Oldest Company
 
Last edited:

Lefou

Danged rascally furt
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
2,241
Reaction score
1,126
Location
East of Filthadelphia, south of Nyack
LMAO
I can recall Meister Brau was a staple in midwestern liquor stores when I was a kid back in the '70's and '80's. Ohio had a lower age limit for drinkers than Indiana did, and it was a regular occurrence to get knackered in Buckeye Land.
Parents looked at me one day after coming back from King's Island after senior year graduation and asked me if I'd been drinking. That was almost 40 years ago and I'm still a lightweight.
 
Last edited:

Schlenkerla

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
16,778
Reaction score
5,862
Oops, forgot to answer my own question. In 1966 Maumee Bay Brewing Company was sold and the company that bought it started brewing a beer called Meister Brau there, and also a Lite version of that. In 1972, Miller bought the Buckeye brand and relabeled Meister Brau Lite as Miller Lite. Yes, this lite beer used gluco-amylase to get rid of all starch and minimize calories. They weren't the first to do this, but close to it ( search Joseph Owades and Gablingers Diet Beer - Owades deserves your attention for sure regarding the current topic).

The whole story is here: Buckeye Beer: The History and Rebirth of Toledo's Second Oldest Company
Was wondering when you were gonna do that. [emoji122] [emoji482]
 

verboten

With Low Expectations, you're rarely disappointed
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
439
Reaction score
246
Location
Monroe, MI
Lol, I forgot about that question. I visit the reimagined Maumee Bay Brewing Company for a pint “on the way home” from the Jeep plant.
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
Cool story passed. I dont have time right now but I look forward to reading that later. And looking into Owades. So are you a gator fan or buckeye? I have drank enough hb lagers that I feel all but certain that Coors light is either watered down. Or much heavier in adjunct. I am loving this beer. Strong, low in starch and I only did a 30 min boil because I no chilled it. No problem for hops wanted to maximize isomerization anyways.

I didn't look at my book for liming it. Figured I could throw a wedge of lime in if I wanted. Have done that a few times already. Dont know how it was because that was towards the end of a long day if you catch my drift ;).
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
I brewed a light lager (OG = 1.030, 25% grits) this weekend. Doing an enzyme experiment:

#1: No enzymes added to fermentor
#2: Glucoamylase added to fermentor
#3: Alpha Amylase added to fermentor
#4: Alpha Amylase added to fermentor (same as #3)​

It's bubbling away at 50F, we'll see in a few weeks. I'll have FG comparison then. Flavor/etc will take another couple of weeks I guess.
upload_2019-7-5_12-13-11.png
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
So cool passedpawn. Cant wait to see what happens. Also how they taste. Are you going to blind triangle them. I did with mine and bud light and was wrong! I had some pizza earlier and was pretty buzzed, I need to try again.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
So cool passedpawn. Cant wait to see what happens. Also how they taste. Are you going to blind triangle them. I did with mine and bud light and was wrong! I had some pizza earlier and was pretty buzzed, I need to try again.
I haven't thought that far ahead. I've never done one of those tests.

I wasn't really trying to make a bud light clone. In fact, I put pound of C40 in there and a pound of wheat to make sure it tasted (and looked) like beer and not urinal.
 

Schlenkerla

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
16,778
Reaction score
5,862
I haven't thought that far ahead. I've never done one of those tests.

I wasn't really trying to make a bud light clone. In fact, I put pound of C40 in there and a pound of wheat to make sure it tasted (and looked) like beer and not urinal.
Whenever I used enzymes I found it takes a few days to a week to loose that dry-parched-acrid bite. That's after I get it in the keg.

If you detect that taste don't rush to judgement. Wait it out.

[emoji482]
 

brewshki

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
931
Reaction score
159
Location
Riverside, CA
I haven't thought that far ahead. I've never done one of those tests.

I wasn't really trying to make a bud light clone. In fact, I put pound of C40 in there and a pound of wheat to make sure it tasted (and looked) like beer and not urinal.
Sorry to zombie thread this. How did it turn out? I’ve been thinking lately about playing with enzymes in low alcohol beers. I’d like to try and develop a few low alcohol low calorie beers and my research has been pointing me to enzymes.
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
Sorry to zombie thread this. How did it turn out? I’ve been thinking lately about playing with enzymes in low alcohol beers. I’d like to try and develop a few low alcohol low calorie beers and my research has been pointing me to enzymes.
I am looking forward to the results too. No zombie thread at all. Very much alive and well for me. I am now drinking into the second of five gallons. After drinking 7 g or so I can definitely say I like it and see myself using it on almost everything. If flavor is going to be minimally impacted if at all, it feels like a win win. Lower carbs and stronger beer. I wonder about stouts, etc.. For a light really low calorie beer its seems a must. Hope you give it a try.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
34,027
Reaction score
13,000
Location
☀️ Clearwater, FL ☀️
Sorry to zombie thread this. How did it turn out? I’ve been thinking lately about playing with enzymes in low alcohol beers. I’d like to try and develop a few low alcohol low calorie beers and my research has been pointing me to enzymes.
All four fermenters are in kegs and by now are probably carbonated. BUT, I'm heading to Phoenix AZ then Bend OR and won't be back to do a taste test for another 10 days or so.

However, here's the FG/OG for them (4 different fermentors from 2 10g batches).
  • Light Lager #1 (alpha amylase): 1.029 -> 1.003
  • Light Lager #2 (gluco amylase): 1.029 -> 1.000
  • Light Lager #3 (alpha amylase): 1.034 -> 1.005
  • Light Lager #4 ( no enzymes ): 1.034 -> 1.005
upload_2019-8-4_23-37-31.png
 

brewshki

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
931
Reaction score
159
Location
Riverside, CA
I am looking forward to the results too. No zombie thread at all. Very much alive and well for me. I am now drinking into the second of five gallons. After drinking 7 g or so I can definitely say I like it and see myself using it on almost everything. If flavor is going to be minimally impacted if at all, it feels like a win win. Lower carbs and stronger beer. I wonder about stouts, etc.. For a light really low calorie beer its seems a must. Hope you give it a try.
And you brewed a lager correct? I’ve been thinking about stouts as well.

My top styles I think I’d like to do this with are a pale ale/IPA, lagers, and stouts. On the stout range, I think I would try a dry Irish first as the alcohol content wouldn’t be too far off of normal and I think the additional dryness would be welcome in the style.

Not sure where to go first. I was thinking the hoppy beer as I have a worry that the use of enzymes will just neuter the beer and leave it tasting badly and such. I am not sure where this fear really comes from but I think it is born just out of reading other forums and opinions of people.
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
10,078
Reaction score
4,188
Location
S.AZ
Yes, I think so, and on the previous page is a link to a calculator. It is similar to that example so 130 calories before and 126 after with a solid abv jump.
Gluco forever man! lol, i get similar, but brew 8% beers, from 6% without.....(don't want to have to brew more often then once a week! :)) :mug:

edit: and honestly, with dark malts, and crystals, you don't even notice the body loss, and it's the difference from weighing 170, or 200....
 
OP
applescrap

applescrap

Be the ball!
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
3,524
Location
Denver
Got ten gallons of light lager two weeks in and my finger is on the the trigger. This was an interesting read, wanted to bump see if any new thoughts or tips could be shared?
 

SanPancho

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
700
Location
SF
I'm getting ready to brew a Brute pale ale, I'm just guessing at the way I should brew it, any thoughts would be welcome, my thoughts were to up the mash temp a little and add Dexedrine just the add some body back
did Nobody else catch this? Or is this just common/normal in the ozarks?
 

eric19312

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
3,180
Reaction score
1,632
Location
Long Island
All four fermenters are in kegs and by now are probably carbonated. BUT, I'm heading to Phoenix AZ then Bend OR and won't be back to do a taste test for another 10 days or so.

However, here's the FG/OG for them (4 different fermentors from 2 10g batches).
  • Light Lager #1 (alpha amylase): 1.029 -> 1.003
  • Light Lager #2 (gluco amylase): 1.029 -> 1.000
  • Light Lager #3 (alpha amylase): 1.034 -> 1.005
  • Light Lager #4 ( no enzymes ): 1.034 -> 1.005
This was interesting data ... how did they compare when you drank the kegs?
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
10,078
Reaction score
4,188
Location
S.AZ
Got ten gallons of light lager two weeks in and my finger is on the the trigger. This was an interesting read, wanted to bump see if any new thoughts or tips could be shared?

i've been using wine yeast recently. don't do that. the beer actually is watery.

maybe something to do with protien metabolisim?

This was interesting data ... how did they compare when you drank the kegs?
+1
 

BrewZer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
204
Reaction score
103
Location
SW Ohio
Got ten gallons of light lager two weeks in and my finger is on the the trigger. This was an interesting read, wanted to bump see if any new thoughts or tips could be shared?
Well, you got my attention... and I agree, it's a good read, but I 'bout screamed when I saw you putting your dipstick right into your fermenter.

Have you considered putting a spigot in the side of your bucket so you can draw a sample into a cylinder for checking the gravity?
 

verboten

With Low Expectations, you're rarely disappointed
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
439
Reaction score
246
Location
Monroe, MI
My Parkway Pilsner uses a variation on @Schlenkerla triple hopped recipe, I have been using Viking Pilsner malt, Steam rolled corn (horse feed :D) and glucoamylase, I mash 60 minutes at 149 with a RIMS. It tends to get down to ~0.996-8 which is super dry, I love it, and the neighbors do too!


It is now the reason that I have a half barrel system because I could not keep up with the demand, even doing 10 gallon batches.
 

Attachments

Top