Should Have Started Doing This A Long Time Ago

[eric19312]

I'm convinced my homebrew is costing less than commercial including my aggressive depreciation schedule....all durable equipment amortized over 30 batches which is expected to be 18 months. I end up at about $1.25/bottle. That will go up a bit when I start using propane instead of NG but am looking forward to getting outside when the weather is nicer. Not counting time brewing or time spent posting on HBT, it's a hobby...

That said my waistline is also pretty clear evidence that my consumption has increased, likely offsetting most of the savings.

 

[Jayhem]

I feel the same way.

And for those who say homebrewing doesn't save money...well it depends on your equipment! You CAN make good beer with $200 worth of brewing equipment if you were so inclined and after 4 batches you would have covered the cost of the equipment.

I brew my session pale ales for about $4 for 12-pack of 12oz bottles. When you drink 12 beers per week on average the savings starts to add up fast.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm very much a minimalist myself,only buying what I need to make the job smoother,easier,faster. I buy a piece here & there as is warranted buy need or replacement. Like the bell on my wing capper stretching out a bit & leaving caps that leak under pressure. So I bought a super agata bench capper. I used it to bottle a dark lager on St Patrick's day. I've noticed that different breweries bottles cap differently. Sam Adams are very easy,Paulaner as well. But the Paulaner bottles leave the sides of the cap a bit straighter vertically than the Sam Adams. Even moreso than the other craft bottles,which leave the sides of the caps at the same angle as the collar under the lip. Some of these plain craft bottles stick in the capper's bell too. They don't leak,so we'll see how that works out.
When I brewed my BuckIPA originally,it cost me 57c per bottle. With drouts & wild fires driving up grain prices nowadays,that'll likely go up a bit. But it was an AE ale,whereas PM would still be cheaper.

 

[Varmintman]

The whole argument about is home brew less expensive than buying craft beer is kind of silly. No it is dang silly to try and compare one persons brewing favorites and system to another's.

My first brew cost 70 bucks for equipment, grain and yeast. I was able to reuse things like a cooler and such so my initial investment was not much. I buy grain, hops in bulk and reuse my yeast along with only brewing low gravity batches. I spend 10 bucks in grain and yeast for my light session beer and 15 bucks for the few browns I brew.

Compare 10 bucks for 60 beers since I brew 6 gallon batches to a 30 pack of bud light at 20 bucks and I am saving 30 bucks a batch or paid for my set up and put money in my pocket after 3 batches.

Does that mean that the guy that has spent thousands of dollars to brew his beer is wrong. No not hardly wrong at all just a different road than the one I took.

And by the way I do not brew to save money but rather because I enjoy it. The savings for me is just icing on the cake.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,that's about the size of it. Being retired,I need cost savings wherever I can,but that's gravy compared to enjoying brewing to start with. I just don't believe all that high dollar hardware is a necessity,but rather a nicety.

 

[LHBC]

Well I have been getting Growlers filled for between $20-40/gal. (incl. tip). The price will vary based on Alcohol content. Hell even Banquet Beer at the Local Market is $10/gal. Also Corny kegs appreciate in Value. And compared to other Hobbies the supplies are very reasonably priced considering the return we get them.

For instance I have been watching this TV show about a Zombie Apocalypse. Think of how valuable Brewing skills and equipment would be in that kind of situation.

 

[Accidic]

Ok. I truly doubt if there were such a thing they'd be all that useful save the pots perhaps for gathering/sanitizing water. Brewing would not be all that useful for more than entertainment value and even that would be excessively dangerous.

@Varmint,
Being fair, I believe his point was once you tallied up all the costs. AKA, cost of materials and ingredients, cost of gas or electricity to heat, cost of bottle caps, bottles (although this is more or less a one time charge) cost to clean said bottles), sanitizer, occasional hosing replacement, initial equipment (amortized), replacement equipment potentially needed due to breakage/contamination, and of course the occasional batch that frankly, just goes wrong. I can buy the ingredients for a batch pretty easily for $10-20 but the rest was factored in for the other things that go into it. The key factor here is while you might get more out of putting more money into it, you can also get stellar results by going the cheapest possible route as well. Or at the very least, good enough results to justify it over a ~180 mile each way road trip in my case.

That said, for people who are trying to save a penny and want to cut corners wherever they can, making your own bleach (calcium based but works fine for sanitizing) can be bought for about $10/box and lasts somewhere between eons and forever as it translates to hundreds upon hundreds of gallons of bleach. That said, I put my splurge money towards a bulk long lasting bottle of starsan and buy the big boxes of Oxy.

 

[Jayhem]

I make this argument alot, and I'm usually flamed for it...but here I am doing it again. People do some creative accounting to justify their brewing. They obsess over saving $2-3 on a pound of hops, but figure that the 6 hours they spent brewing is somehow "free".

I'm all for saving money when you can and lowering the price/bottle; but to say you can actually make beer cheaper than what you can buy it for is a bit of a stretch.

Why should you count the time involved brewing? If you enjoy it it is not work it is fun. Plenty of people have other hobbies that not only cost more money but are less fun with no benefit of producing a consumable good.

 

[unionrdr]

I think it's most accurate to only count expenses that actually cost something. Electricity,gas burners,gas for the car,shipping costs,etc can be legitimitly factored in. but it'd be rather difficult to accurately pinpoint exactly how much electricity,natural gas,& the like are used only for brewing.
So I count the immediet costs & devide by the number of bottles I get. Close enough for comparison's sake.

 

[woknblues]

I don't understand how you can't save money at this, as compared to purchasing the equivalent retail, provided you brew enough of course. 6 packs of "craft" beer here run around $8-$10 dollars. Bombers start at $4.99.. If you add the cost of your hourly rate, I can't see how anyone that doesn't work at McDonalds wouldn't lose money. But the real question is why look at this like that? I am all for an efficient brew day, but I still enjoy doing it. If I didn't, I would buy commercial, and drink less. I enjoy challenging myself in efficient brew techniques and cost control, beyond the usual of trying to brew a great beer. I guess brewing a great beer just isn't enough for me?

 

[tommysauder]

In Canada home brewing saves lots. 5 gallons of beer here is $100. So 1 batch with equip cost almost the same as just the beer here. So now it's just profit

 

[tommysauder]

Even from the local brew place it's 120 for 6 cases of 24 341ml

 

[unionrdr]

Now that's expensive! Even here,for a 6'r of craft beer,the line starts at $7.99. So dividing that by 6,I get $1.33 per bottle. I Can brew something similar for about 49c per bottle for 51 bottles of PM pale ale.

 

[kombat]

Then there is the whole cost of your time to brew versus to buy pre-made and ready to drink. [...] They obsess over saving $2-3 on a pound of hops, but figure that the 6 hours they spent brewing is somehow "free".

We brew because it's fun. It's a hobby. Counting the time it takes to brew the beer makes about as much sense as counting the time it takes to drink it.

 

[broadbill]

Why should you count the time involved brewing? If you enjoy it it is not work it is fun. Plenty of people have other hobbies that not only cost more money but are less fun with no benefit of producing a consumable good.

You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

Of course it is a hobby and therefore you discount your time in the name of fun. Obviously I do this too or I wouldn't be a homebrewer (or bake bread, or woodworking, etc).

My only point is if you are doing a true price comparison then it should be done fairly...or at least recognize the fact that you are discounting your time to pursue the hobby.

 

[kombat]

This is getting silly. It's cheaper (free) to swap my summer/winter tires on my car myself than it is to take it to a garage ($10). Yet, if you count my time (it takes me considerably longer than it would taken them), maybe it comes out as a wash, and I shouldn't be telling people I'm saving money by swapping my own tires?

Maybe I'm not really saving any money changing my own oil, either, because I'm not counting my time?

Maybe mowing my lawn isn't actually saving me any money because it takes me 45 minutes and I could pay a kid to do it for $10?

 

[Jayhem]

You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

By that logic, if I replace the clutch in my truck myself instead of paying a shop $1,000 to do the job I'd actually lose money.
Cost of parts $250
Cost of shop's labor $750
Shop bills me $75/hr and 10 hours
total cost from the shop $1,000

Total cost if I do the job myself $250 in parts
Total time to do job myself 12 hours @ $75/hr = $900
Total cost to do it myself $1,150

even though I'm saving $750 by doing it myself, if I figure that most shops bill $75/hr and it takes me 12 hours to do the job myself then I actually lost money, even though I'm $750 richer for my time.

If this is how you figure homebrewing isn't saving money it's no wonder you are looking at it that way! haha. Homebrewing isn't a job, it's a hobby and if you actually make $75/hr at your day job then you make a lot more than most of us.

I'll gladly spend 12 hours of my time to save $750.

Shops and breweries have overhead and taxes to pay, not just the labor of the brewer which is why it's much cheaper to homebrew.

 

[broadbill]

OK...so your time is worth nothing. Got it. If that is what it takes to validate the time you spend brewing, then go for it. You should start making your own clothes and growing your own food too while you are at it. After all, its cheaper to do all that yourself. Oh, you don't do that? I wonder why....

 

[Jayhem]

OK...so your time is worth nothing. Got it. If that is what it takes to validate the time you spend brewing, then go for it. You should start making your own clothes and growing your own food too while you are at it. After all, its cheaper to do all that yourself. Oh, you don't do that? I wonder why....

Funny you mention that. I grow about 500 lbs of vegetables every year which provides most of the food my wife and I eat the rest of the year and we buy a beef cow from my inlaws who raise beef every year so 400lbs of beef goes into my freezer every summer @ $2/lb instead of $5-$12/lb from the grocery.

While the average American wastes 30 hours per week watching TV (I don't even have cable or dish service), I spend those 30 hours brewing my own beer, growing my own food, doing my own home improvements and maintaining my own vehicles because I enjoy it AND it happens to save me a TON of CASH! Your FREE TIME is not something you have to put an hourly wage on. That is why it's called free time. I happen to enjoying making things in my free time instead of wasting it as a couch potato.

 

[Ridire]

I happen to enjoying making things in my free time instead of wasting it as a couch potato.

But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.

 

[tommysauder]

Time it takes to make it can't be accounted for unless you take time off work. Must cost you a suit load to watch tv, sleep, go for a walk etc. Time off of work is called leisure.

 

[Jayhem]

Time it takes to make it can't be accounted for unless you take time off work. Must cost you a suit load to watch tv, sleep, go for a walk etc. Time off of work is called leisure.

My point EXACTLY. Thanks.

 

[Jayhem]

But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.

Well said.

I would not say that brewing beer ONLY to save money is a worthwhile endeavor. If you don't enjoy homebrewing but rather you consider it a chore then it's not worth it.

 

[broadbill]

Time it takes to make it can't be accounted for unless you take time off work. Must cost you a suit load to watch tv, sleep, go for a walk etc. Time off of work is called leisure.

Instead of dropping in for a quick snarky comment, maybe you should read the thread. Try to keep up sonny.

I already stated that for hobbies, etc. time shouldn't be counted. By the same token, if its a hobby then cost really isn't a factor either. Which is why doing this comparison between cost of homebrewed beer and commerical beer isn't relevant in the first place.

However, if you are going to do the exercise of comparing costs, then you should take account of all of the relevant costs....even if you end up discounting/dismissing them at the end of the day for the sake of hobby.

 

[Clonefan94]

You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

Of course it is a hobby and therefore you discount your time in the name of fun. Obviously I do this too or I wouldn't be a homebrewer (or bake bread, or woodworking, etc).

My only point is if you are doing a true price comparison then it should be done fairly...or at least recognize the fact that you are discounting your time to pursue the hobby.

I disagree with this. I understand what you are saying, but there are a ton of things in life I do to save money, that cost me time. When I change the oil in my car, if I add my time, it costs me money, but I don't have to pay myself $30 to do it on a Saturday. It's not an actual out of pocket expense. So, rather than shelling out close to $40 after tax for an oil change. I'd rather save $20 and do it myself. Yeah, I did save $20. It's not like I took off work to change my oil. Same with mowing my lawn, fixing a toilet, and even brewing beer.

I think the only way you really should have to add labor cost to the cost of your beer, is if you actually have to pay someone to brew it for you or you have to take time of of work, from a paying gig, to brew your own beer. In the end, you are trading time for money, but unless you are actually spending money out of pocket, it's not really costing you "money" If I were lookign at it as a business, yeah, I'd have to run all the numbers perfectly and there would be labor costs. Homebrewing shouldn't factor in labor that doesn't actually cost money.

 

[broadbill]

But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.

this is well said.

 

[Ridire]

this is well said.

Thanks, I have my moments.

My point is that your time is absolutely worth money. Whether you lose out on actual money to brew beer certainly depends on your profession and compensation base (do you work for yourself or do you have your work day set in specific hours?).

But even without the "did I miss work to brew" analysis, there have to be SOME things in your life you enjoy doing. If brewing is not one of them, and you spend 7 hours on a Saturday brewing beer to save money, then you cost yourself nearly a whole day of doing something you want to do...playing with your kids, golfing, camping, hunting Sasquatch, etc.

That's why I don't track the cost of my brews, even though I am an anal Type-A person with an accounting background. You have to just say "screw it" sometimes and do the things you want to do.

 

[tommysauder]

I also have amother hobby. I'm building a drag car. And you said cost shouldn't be a factor for a hobby which is completely false. I'm not going to drop 60000 in a few months to get it done ASAP. I do it as I can when I can. Just because I can't afford to drop 60k doesn't mean I should stop doing that hobby.

 

[tommysauder]

And I will account for labour. When I'm not working my labour cost is $0/hour. Therefore this hobby saves me money. Sorry you're taking offense billyboy

 

[Clonefan94]

Thanks, I have my moments.

My point is that your time is absolutely worth money. Whether you lose out on actual money to brew beer certainly depends on your profession and compensation base (do you work for yourself or do you have your work day set in specific hours?).

But even without the "did I miss work to brew" analysis, there have to be SOME things in your life you enjoy doing. If brewing is not one of them, and you spend 7 hours on a Saturday brewing beer to save money, then you cost yourself nearly a whole day of doing something you want to do...playing with your kids, golfing, camping, hunting Sasquatch, etc.

That's why I don't track the cost of my brews, even though I am an anal Type-A person with an accounting background. You have to just say "screw it" sometimes and do the things you want to do.

I think most people brew though, because they enjoy it. In fact, let's factor in golf. I used to golf a lot until my back went bad. It's good now and have planned on getting back into golf, that was until I started brewing beer. So, since I'm brewing beer, instead of golfing, can I take that $80+ I just saved from not golfing and apply that to my money saved on brewing beer?

Theoretically, yeah, you could run every number into the ground if you wanted. But I would think for some, me included Brewing beer is my golf. It takes me about the same amount of time and gives me a similar relaxation and enjoyment. So I think for me, any hours spent brewing that could be fatored into cost, could also be factored out based on the enjoyment I get from brewing.

And just to let it be known, no, I didn't get into brewing to save money. I tried it, enjoyed it and do it strictly based on the enjoyment factor I get. I could say "Yeah, I brew awesome beer!" But, I really think what's happening is that brewing my own beer has actually made me even enjoy drinking it more. Something I didn't think was possible with the enjoyment I already was getting before.