Shock-Top clone is bitter?

[spaceyaquarius]

The instructions call for separating the DME additions (which I have read here on HBT increases bitterness). At the top it also says the IBU = 22. BeerSmith has the top range for Belgian Wits (in the red) ending at 20 IBU.

I don't like the taste of this clone, but I absolutely love the bottled liquor store Shock-Top. Does anyone think that the problem is the separation of the DME, and perhaps that they are including (yet not labeling) a high bitterness level hop? What can I do to lower the bitterness of this clone kit?:cross:

 

[glockspeed31]

Hi, first off, sorry that you are not happy with your kit. I am the Internet Sales Manager for Barley & Vine, the place where you got your kit from. We sell a ton of this kit and this is the first negative feedback we have heard on this kit.

The bittering hop used in that kit is 1oz Hallertau (US). The reason why the DME is separated is to make sure that it all gets mixed in well. There are a lot of new brewers that use our kits and we design the instructions for someone who has never brewed before to be able to make a great drinkable homebrew. We also have a lot of experienced brewers use our kits and come back for more. I have personally brewed this kit and loved it.

How long did you let it ferment and at what temp? How long in the bottle for conditioning? I'm thinking that after a short time, the extra bittering will fade. One thing to think about is that Shock Top is an American designed Belgian Whit, not a true Belgian Whit, which is possible for the extra 2 IBU points. We use ProMash to design and tweak recipes.

 

[aiptasia]

I'm not sure of your local water conditions either. Hard water conditions (which 90% of the nation has) can cause enhanced bitterness from the hops, so it's another possible avenue for ramping up the perception of bitterness in your beer.

Hallertau isn't a very bitter hop generally. My experience with noble hops is that they run around 3-6% total AAU, which is generally mild.

The good thing is, hops bitterness fades over time. A super hoppy tasting ale will have faded a little bit by the end of bottle conditioning (which generally takes three weeks to a month) and almost fades out completely after six months. The above rep makes a good point in that if you bottle it and just let it sit, the bitterness should fade out to a level that's more similar to what you're used to. This is actually a fairly common phenomenon in the commercial world, too. The longer a shock top sits on the shelf in a warehouse, and then in a store, the more it will lose hops flavor and bitterness. Some people crave that bitter hops flavor and seek out the freshest IPA's just for that reason. There are breweries, such as Russian River brewing, that not only put a "drink young" warning on their IPA's but will also name their beers things like "Drink by 12/12/12."

So, I would just bottle yours and let it bottle condition and carbonate for three to four weeks, then taste it. I bet it tastes like a totally different beer, more similar to what you like.

 

[spaceyaquarius]

My ph is 8.8 with calcium at 70 ppm.

I'm not claiming that the instructions or the ingredients are the problem. The fermentation temps were not 100% stable, as the fermenters sit in the kitchen at 62-69 degree F. (not in a climate controlled fridge). I've only brewed about 10 times so far. I was wondering if the spices get strained before the wort goes into the primary fermenter, or do they sit in the primary and get strained later? This is not included in the instructions, though I have found out from other HBT users that it is usually strained out before the primary fermenter.

It could easily be a "young beer" issue. Maybe the problem is that the instructions say "bottle condition for 10 or more days", so I was waiting 10-14 days to drink. Several people claim on HBT that 30-34 days are required for a wheat spice ale to carbonate and age properly? Hmmm.

 

[spaceyaquarius]

Quick to criticize, slow to respond. Oh well, I'll just figure it out myself after spending $55 several times on your clone kit.

 

[glockspeed31]

Sorry about the slow response, busy with work and family. There are many small problems that I see.
1) Your water is too basic (Alkaline), should be 5.0 - 5.5 range which is more ideal for beer brewing. You can add water additives such as Mash pH stabilizer http://www.barleynvine.com/l6117.html or using bottled spring water. By changing your water pH, it will reduce some of your bitterness.

2) I let the spice pack sit in the fermenter during the entire process of the primary. Then I siphon over to my carboy leaving behind the grub and the floating spices. I wanted as much of the spice flavors as possible.

3) Let your bottles condition for 3 weeks and then chill in the fridge for 3 days. This allows the co2 to develop properly and be completely absorbed into solution. This will help your beer stay carved after pouring into the glass.

You mention that this is your 10th beer batch, how did your other brews come out? Were they bitter as well? What styles were they? I honestly think if you change your water profile to a more balanced pH level and let the bottles condition properly, you will have a more balanced great tasting beer.

Feel free to contact me either here or at the shop if you have any other questions or concerns.

Cheers!!

 

[Talonracer67]

If his water PH is 8.8 that is Alkaline not acidic, hopefully that was a typo

 

[glockspeed31]

If his water PH is 8.8 that is Alkaline not acidic, hopefully that was a typo

You are correct, early morning with no coffee. Thanks for pointing that out. Will change the posting.

 

[makubex]

Quick to criticize, slow to respond. Oh well, I'll just figure it out myself after spending $55 several times on your clone kit.

I fail to see how his post criticized you at all. He apologized, then asked several process related questions to try to get to the root cause of your beer not turning out as intended.

 

[spaceyaquarius]

I fail to see how his post criticized you at all. He apologized, then asked several process related questions to try to get to the root cause of your beer not turning out as intended.

I guess I should apologize for buying 5 clone kits equaling $275 on a clone kit that tastes nothing like the original. No mention of pH is in the instructions, though they claim that it is designed for new brewers. My bad.

 

[spaceyaquarius]

I honestly think if you change your water profile to a more balanced pH level and let the bottles condition properly, you will have a more balanced great tasting beer. Cheers!!

If you read the original post, I was asking others if the separation of the DME causes higher bitterness. I am not conditioning bottles, I am kegging the 5-gallon batch. I was also asking if 22 is a high IBU as BeerSmith shows that Weissbiers are around 8-15 IBU (with 22 being off the scale entirely).

Also, the instructions do state, "bottle condition for 10 or more days", which can easily result in any new brewer drinking the beer much too early. I would change the instructions to: "bottle condition for 3.5 to 4 weeks or more." I also believe that the kit is lacking in grains as other clone kits have up to 3 pounds of actual grains on top of the pounds of Bavarian Briess DME, while this one only has 1 pound of actual grains + 5 pounds of DME (again not telling you the names of the grains or the DME). I think I'm going to switch to Austin Homebrew clones.

With one more Barley & Vine Shock-Top kit, I just brewed a new batch tonight with all Ozarka spring water (5.7 pH) and will wait 30-34 days for carbonation (1/18/2014).