Sharp Bitterness in my IPAs.

[tgmartin000]

I missed this post earlier and wanted to reply because there are some valid points here. Mainly I think doing an extract beer would solve the possible astringency issue.

As for my hops I do usually buy in bulk but only a couple months worth at a time and they live in ziploc bags in the freezer.

The pinpoint bitterness you describe sounds like what I am dealing with. The bitterness is sharp and almost burns your tongue instead of being deep and steady.

I think I have the same issue. I just made my first 100% RO beer to test the hypothesis. I also acidified the sparge water to make sure my sparge pH doesn't cause problems.

I think the OP also mentioned a Sweetness - are your beers attenuating fully? I've also been trying to dry my beers out more lately, to see if that helps.

 

[chumpsteak]

My beers do always attenuate fully right to the number. I control temps and have never had attenuation problems.

Please let me know if acidifying the sparge water or RO fixed your issue. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Challenger440]

Thanks Yooper, I'll definitely consider it. Just hesitant because I know the local breweries make good IPAs with water right out of the tap. I'm really wondering if bringing my sparge water pH down and batch sparging at closer to 170 than 200 might do it.

What are you thinking might be too high with my water? Alkalinity or Bicarbonate or both? I don't claim to understand how it all works together, but I do get everything to balance nicely in the spreadsheets with some acidulated and gypsum/calcium chloride additions in the mash. The only thing I can't seem to get a straight answer on is why my RA goes to about -250 on the spreadsheet. From what I've read though, it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot depending on who you talk to.

Are the Local breweries markedly closer or further away from your water treatment plant than you are? I know here in Columbus, that can make a difference if you are comparing very close to very far away.

 

[bobbrews]

I didn't read your entire thread, but it's definitely your water. Balance your water for the style(s) and your beers will go from good to excellent.

 

[chumpsteak]

Thanks Bob. I have been balancing my water for the style and my blondes and Stouts have been coming out great, it's just my IPAs that I can't seem to get just right.

I did some research on my water today and I found that my subdivision is fed by several different wells and according to the spreadsheet I saw that lists details about the water coming out of all the wells, the alkalinity ranges from 50 to 300 and sulphites range from 5 to 200. Sounds like they change wells periodically throughout the year, so basically I have no idea what kind of tap water I'm getting on a daily basis. The water report I got from Ward labs is basically worthless and I can do all the spreadsheets I want but I'm not ever going to balance my minerals very well. Luckily the pH on all the wells seems to be in the high 7's, so my mash pH has probably been pretty good, but I think I'm going to start using RO water and build the water back up and acidify the sparge water to see if it solves my problem.

Also, word is in one of the local forums that the local breweries are all in an area of low alkalinity and not much water variability.

So looks like I'll be purchasing water for my next IPA.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Wynne-R]

That's a helluva range, zero to infinity.

I hope you report back with good news.

Slainte

 

[unionrdr]

I have my 1st PM kit lying in wait for the stove to get fixed. I'm thinkin of using distilled water for the whole batch. Not sure if I should add anything. I do have a goodly amount of Burton salts,but I don't think I wanna use that on a cascade pale ale.

 

[Denny]

my biggest and best change for my ipa/iipa's have been first wort hoping my bittering hops..

I always FWH my IPAs, but it's for flavor, not bitterness. FWH doesn't give me the sharp hop bitterness I like in IPA. I do the normal 60 min. addition along with the FWH.

 

[unionrdr]

This problem of bittering power reminded me of this;

 

[chumpsteak]

I always FWH my IPAs, but it's for flavor, not bitterness. FWH doesn't give me the sharp hop bitterness I like in IPA. I do the normal 60 min. addition along with the FWH.

If you like sharp hop bitterness then you'd love my beers. I have a pale ale on tap right now that tastes great but its pretty much like biting right into a grapefruit. Once the early sharpness dies down it smooths out and tastes like a hoppy pale ale. Its only been on gas for 2 weeks but it is really sharp and really bitter for a supposed 50ibu pale ale. I don't know maybe it will smooth out a little.

On a side note I had a stone ipa on tap last night that had a little bit of the early sharp bitterness that my beers exhibit. I would say the stone bitterness was about halfway between my sharp bitterness and the deep smooth bitterness I am after.

 

[chumpsteak]

Just wanted to follow up on this thread. I've used RO water for my last 4 beers and they are the best beers i've ever made. I've been adding gypsum and calcium chloride to style and the beers are coming out super clean and full of flavor. I also realized that i've been overcarboating my kegs which was causing some of the perceived sharpness in my beers.

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

have further details on the RO water? and what spreadsheet you are using?

Whats the starting #s for RO?
ANd where did you find the target profiles?

About what are the additions you are doing?

 

[Yooper]

Just wanted to follow up on this thread. I've used RO water for my last 4 beers and they are the best beers i've ever made. I've been adding gypsum and calcium chloride to style and the beers are coming out super clean and full of flavor. I also realized that i've been overcarboating my kegs which was causing some of the perceived sharpness in my beers.

Great to hear!!!!!!!!!

 

[Denny]

The best water calculator around IMO is https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[Wynne-R]

I love a happy (hoppy) ending. Thanks for the update.

 

[chumpsteak]

have further details on the RO water? and what spreadsheet you are using?

Whats the starting #s for RO?
ANd where did you find the target profiles?

About what are the additions you are doing?

I'm getting my RO water from a shop down the street that only sells water. He has a filtration system the size of my living room and the water is close to 0ppm across the board with almost no alkalinity.

I'm using the EZ water spreadsheet for additions and predicted mash pH.
I'm using Breuin water to get a general idea of the profile I want.
I'm adding gypsum and calcium chloride for my hoppy beers in a 6:1 ratio or about 300ppm sulphates to 50 ppm chloride. And for my not as hoppy beers I'm doing a 1:1 ratio. I did the 1:1 ratio for a stout I made with RO water and it made the hops pop a little more than I'd like so I will just go straight calcium chloride on that recipe next time.

I also add a little acidulated malt on the beers without roasted malts to try and get the mash pH around 5.4. Don't have a pH meter yet but have been having good results just by using the spreadsheet calculations.

The only problem I have now is I don't even want to drink the beers that I made with tap water because they all have slight off flavors (chlorophenols) which are way more evident now that the last 4 beers I've made have come out extremely clean with no detectible off flavors.

I was also carbing my kegs with the regulator set to 12 or 13 psi because I felt like the carbonation made my beers taste better, but now I know that the carbonation bite was really covering up the flavors of the beer and sharpening the perceived bitterness. I've recently been trying more commercial and local beers and paying close attention to carb levels and now that I'm setting to 9 or 10 psi I'm getting the nice deep warming lingering bitterness I was after.

Anyway, I'm getting to the point where I'm actually somewhat satisfied with my process and results. The last frontier for me is getting a pH meter and mastering mash pH, but like I said, I'm getting good results now so I'm not in a huge rush for that yet.

I would recommend brewing with RO water to anyone who is not satisfied with the way their beers are tasting. Water additions are not that difficult to understand if you do a little reading and AJ's water primer is a great place to start.

Thanks to everyone for their input.