Several Kegging Questions

[sagedeer]

I just started a kombucha company and am now being asked to keg my kombucha so stores can have it on tap. I want to start with (2) 5 gallon kegs, maybe 4. I've never done anything with kegging so am a little lost...

My main question is what size of co2 tank should I get?
How much CO2 is used to normally carbonate 5 gallons prior to dispensing it? Also would these kegs be adequate for the purpose of distribution to stores? http://www.kegconnection.com/pin-lo...-keg-or-firestone-5-gallon-for-homebrew-soda/
Also... Any other suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

Sage

 

[BrewWNC]

Congrats on the business. Don't know much about kombucha but...

You should probably start with. 20 lb co2 tank. They will last a good number of kegs but how many really depends on how much co2 you use (how carbonated each keg will be).

I have multiple Pin lock kegs from keg connection. They work great. Since they were probably used commercially to serve pepsi they can probably be used to serve anything else commercially (as I understand it).

Other suggestions....

Buy a extra keg for cleaning purposes
Buy extra orings, lube, cleaner

Are you supplying the co2 needed for dispensing?

 

[sagedeer]

Thank you.

Supplying the CO2 for dispensing to the stores? I don't think so, I think I'll just need to carbonate it and hand the kegs off to them.

How much does it cost to fill a c02 canister? Is it cheaper the larger the c02 canister you buy? There's a pretty cheap 4lb one... I could get 3 for the same price as a 10lb one.

 

[Aonghus]

A clarification; the pin lock kegs are used to serve Coke. The Pepsi kegs are the ball lock variety.

I am forced to ask: what is Kombucha?

The 20 LB bottle is a good idea you will get 4x as much carbonation potential for just a wee bit more per bottle (as apposed to a 5LB variety). I am able to force carb quite a few corney kegs per 5LB bottle of CO2.

 

[kyt]

Your output should determine what size you get. If you're not going through them that fast, a 5# may be sufficient. All you'll be doing is putting pressure in the kegs not serving so you wouldn't be using very much gas. I got my 5# Al tank in a keg connection kit, it cost me $8 to have it filled. Get the cheap 4# and if you turn over enough kegs, use that profit to upgrade later should the need arise.

The Coke pin lock and Pepsi ball lock kegs are great for home brewers but a lot of places don't use them anymore. You'll need to check with your retailer to see if they even have the hardware to serve from a Cornelius keg. You may have to go with sanke kegs, if they don't have, and aren't willing to purchase the pin/ball connections.

 

[sagedeer]

Great info everyone, really appreciated.

Aonghus - Kombucha is a fermented tea beverage which uses a symbiotic yeast and bacterial culture. I believe it originated in China but has been becoming really popular in the USA. Health folks call it a tonic, but realistically there isn't any research showing it as healthy or unhealthy... A healthier alternative to soda though, especially with the tea, and certainly promotes digestion.

I am assuming I'll be going through 2-4 kegs per week to begin with, and I can't imagine needing to use more than 6 a week.

Two more questions I have:

I have a problem with the flavoring settling to the bottom of the bottle, something that would be much more problematic in a keg. Is there anything natural to add to prevent settling?

Can I carbonate multiple kegs simultaneously? Like 4 kegs at once? What sort of connection would I need, or would it change depending on the type of keg?

 

[Hello]

Before you proceed you really need to know what connection you can deal with. You are not supplying the taps, lines, or CO2 tanks and therefore, it is crucial that you know what your clients need. The kegs used at a bottle shop I frequent has 6 taps and they use Sanke connections. If you wander in with pin or ball lock you won't be able to add some odd adapter while the keg is full of your product.

That said, if you do know this and you are ready to carb multiple at a time, then you can do this with a dual gauge regulator and a 4-way manifold. If all of your product is to be carbonated at the same level (PSI). If you have different kombuchas that appreciate different levels of carbonation (like beer) you want to get a regulator that has multiple bodies. A manifold only distributes are among all outlets (if open) but a regulator with basically independent bodies will have independent knobs that allow you to increase or decrease the PSI. Depending upon how many you want to do at a time, you can spend a bit of cash.

If you think you want to carbonate at 10 PSI and some at 20 PSI, then you can get away with a dual body and then manifolds to distribute. You can hook up 2 kegs per body on the regulator, set each to 10 and 20 PSI respectively, and open the manifolds. You carb 2 at 10 and 2 at 20.

Does that make sense?

Tank size, I would go with 20# because it sounds like it will indeed last you a while and you can ensure you won't have to return for more frequent gas fills.

I cannot speak to the flavoring. That is a tough one if you ask me. Those are kombuchas I expect to drink from a bottle so I can shake before opening.

 

[kyt]

Yea Hello about covered it. As for keeping flavoring suspended, well it does on it's own, if they're dissolved.
What you see settling to the bottom is stuff that has precipitated out of solution because it is insoluble or the molecules are too large, etc. Or it could be what you are seeing is yeast flocculation.
Some flavor/color compounds can stick to the yeast and fall out with them. Just like how beer IBUs can drop as the yeast flocculates. So, if you really wanted no sediment, and any flavor to stay completely dissolved, you'd have to use a fine filter to remove all yeast and particulate matter, then dissolve a substance like flavoring syrup into the filtered liquid.
Since you're force carbonating, you don't have to worry about needing the yeast to produce CO2.
Filtering would produce a really clear product too, but you couldn't call it "raw" anymore.

 

[sagedeer]

Hello - Yeah that makes sense. I'll be carbonating everything to the same level. Though, is it possible to replace the line connections on a pin or ball lock to the Sanke connections? I can find pin and ball locks for so much cheaper used. Also is this what I would need? http://www.kegconnection.com/4-faucet-fridge-homebrew-kegerator-kit/

kyt: I've thought about filtering, and I suppose the retailers I sell to would probably prefer that, at the very least to prevent odd looks on customer faces from chunks pouring into their cups, and the lines from clogging up. Difficult though since the large chunks probably slowly break down and provide more flavor as it ages... Though can also create a really intense flavor on the last gulp. I do wonder if opening the line would mix the solution; it happens when I open a bottle of my kombucha at least... the carbonation fizzes up and sort of stirs the contents with it. I guess all I can do is experiment. Scary experimenting with 5 gallons of product!

 

[kyt]

No the sediment won't stir up when you open the line because new pressure replaces the volume that is leaving. You get this in your bottles because you released the pressure in the headspace by taking the cap off. The gas in the liquid will try to normalize and create the bubbles. For a draught system the bubbles come out in the glass.
You wouldn't want to add fermentables to the keg because they could clog the dip tube and/or get stuck in the poppets. Additionally, as those fermentables ferment it'll increase the pressure in the keg. This will change the volumes of CO2 in the pour and could blow product back up the gas side. The gas dip tube is short partly because of this and a proper gas setup should have a check valve installed.

There are some Sanke/Corny conversion kits out there. I haven't researched any of them.
Also you don't need 4 faucets, you'd need a multi body regulator, or a gas manifold. That's what Hello is talking about. A manifold is just a bar with a number of output valves on it, and 1 input. For consistency you'd probably want a single body reg and a 2 to 4 valve manifold. Multi body regs are more expensive than a manifold, if you don't need multiple different pressures at the same time.

 

[sagedeer]

kyt: Right, but I'm going to need to test how carbonated the batches are so will need the faucets. Doesn't that kit includes the 4 piece manifold and the regulator you're talking about? I think I'd probably even get a more basic one...
http://www.kegconnection.com/4-faucet-basic-homebrew-kegerator-kit/

Also the kombucha shouldn't ferment if kept refrigerated. Or at least I imagine that retailers keep their beverages on tap refrigerated? Or do they normally just add ice to chill them?

 

[kyt]

Oh yea I just read the link and didn't look at it. My bad.
Usually a faucet has a pull handle, and those are called picnic or cobra taps. But I guess both are technically faucets and taps. Semantics sheesh! Yes that kit had a single body reg and a 4 valve manifold. But you don't have to have all those taps, you could just swap one around. Wouldn't hurt to have some spares though lol. But that's more equipment you have to clean.
The KT will continue to ferment when cold, just slower. How much slower depends on factors like how cold.
Your retailer should have a space in a cooler where they keep their kegs. But if you wished to specify that your brew be served warm over ice, they may do it. That's something you'd need to discuss with them.

 

[Hello]

Hey. Use the cobra/picnic taps but as far as converting corny to sanke, it may be pricey. Do what I did, email keg connection and I almost assume Josh will respond. That dude will sit and get what you need. But you should find out about connections at the client's store first. Once you fill a corny you can't just add some new connections. You'll have to open the lid of the corny, releasing gas and then unscrew popits and such. No dice if you have a full corny.

Whatever connection you get, a single body regulator with a manifold will work just fine. It'll save you some cash and if you decide you want two different PSI's one day, kegconnection will sell you a $50 "add a body" regulator to fit your current setup. Another gem of info from Josh at kegconnection. He's been amazing with me and my pocketbook.

Alternatively, you could supply a picnic tap with each corny and just tell the client that's how they'll serve the tea. Not sure it'll fly but maybe that'll be okay. I've seen that once before. Just need a cooler to keep it in and rig a hook to the handle with a binder clip to keep the tap from dropping on the ground.

 

[kyt]

I agree with everything Hello just said. My keg kit came from Keg connection as well.

 

[sagedeer]

Great, sounds good. I'll figure out the setups prior to buying anything then
Thanks!

 

[kyt]

Check these out:

http://www.evcontainer.com/
They use Sanke D type connectors, but sure would be a whole lot easier to clean out than a regular sanke keg!