Serendipity Sour Cream Ale

[Owly055]

Time to put my hard hat on again ;-) ........... Yes my 78 minute raw no boil no chill cream ale soured. Time for the I told you so crowd to step in. But no, it did not sour because of the process, but because I inadvertently pitched top crop from a brew I hadn't realized had soured.

They say that every dark cloud has a silver lining, and this one very definitely does. I was approaching the end of primary when I tasted the brew I had top cropped and realized that I had a problem that had now spread to two brews. Determined to nip the souring in the bud, I tasted the brew daily waiting for the sourness to develop. At about day 12, I could just begin to detect a tang, but I like the tang, so I let it develop another day, tasted it again, and decided to "lock it down".
The entire brew went into the stainless steel pressure cooker, and I heated it to 165 and let it slow cool, then racked to tap a draft jugs.

The result is phenomenal....... A very nice cream ale with a bit of chill haze, IBU 25, hopped with Willamette and Crystal, with a subtle citrus tang......... a shandy is the immediate impression. This is a very happy accident, and were it not for the need to pasteurize to stop the process, I would probably repeat it again and again. I still have top crop with this bug in it, but I don't want it in my fermenters, so I'm taking measures to eradicate it. The "offending fermenter" has been sitting completely submerged in star san with the spigot inside it completely disassembled for 3 days now, and will not come out until Monday when I "shoot for the moon" with my attempt to do a 55 minute no boil no chill brew using my infamous "hop decoction" that recently stirred up such controversy.

The results of this accident were good enough that I probably will experiment with some sour mashes trying to hit that "sweet spot". I've found it extermely difficult to control sour mash to achieve a consistent predictable result, but I believe it could be done by monitoring PH.

H.W.

 

[zmanzorro]

Be careful where you put the emphasis. I read it as SourCream Ale, not Sour CreamAle.

 

[JTM88]

That's awesome that it worked out. But I too thought it was going to be a SourCream ale. I was very intrigued.

 

[BGBC]

*sigh*

Glad you enjoy the end product. I don't understand the connection between what you did for this brew and sour mashes. Any idea where the initial infection came from?

But no, it did not sour because of the process, but because I inadvertently pitched top crop from a brew I hadn't realized had soured.

Also, I don't completely agree with initial line of thought here. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because these brews shared your infected top crop doesn't mean the original process was sound.

 

[Owly055]

The connection is only that you can achieve the same souring using sour mash, which does not infect your fermenter. There is no way to determine the origin of the infection..... In the course of 119 brews over the last two years, I have had one other infection, which was quickly eradicated. The odds are that this is going to happen occasionally, as bacteria are everywhere. The accidental sour that provided the top crop for this brew was actually quite good also......whatever it was, it was a nice culture........ the saved yeast is now dumped down the drain and gone forever (I hope). The time period during which you are chilling, aerating, and transferring wort are critical times when wort that is below pasteurization temp is exposed to the environment. Luck is involved, and fortunately we are usually lucky.

I believe my no boil / no chill brews are less vulnerable, as they are lidded at 165F, and not opened again until the next day briefly to pitch yeast.

H.W.

*sigh*

Glad you enjoy the end product. I don't understand the connection between what you did for this brew and sour mashes. Any idea where the initial infection came from?



Also, I don't completely agree with initial line of thought here. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because these brews shared your infected top crop doesn't mean the original process was sound.

 

[SeraW]

Well if it's of any support, I'm watching your no-boil speed brew threads, very eager to see how it goes. Not sure I'm myself ready to dip my toes in that pool, so to speak, but it's intriguing to someone like me who goes to school and works some 4 different odd jobs...could mean more brewing if I go for it.

 

[Owly055]

Well if it's of any support, I'm watching your no-boil speed brew threads, very eager to see how it goes. Not sure I'm myself ready to dip my toes in that pool, so to speak, but it's intriguing to someone like me who goes to school and works some 4 different odd jobs...could mean more brewing if I go for it.

I'm starting a record attempt this evening in about 10 minutes. Target brew day time with grain pre-crushed as if I'd gotten it from the LHBS is 45 minutes with a 20 minute "inline mash". The plan is to pull my hop decoction from the mash about 10 minutes before the end (about 1 quart), and return it while draining. The kettle will be on low heat while the bag is draining and I will be monitoring the temp, the idea is to end up at my 165F final pasteurization temp or very close. The brew will be fermented through primary in the brew kettle, and racked to fermenter after a week as I need the kettle. By doing this, I believe I can hit my 45 minute target and get good hop utilization. The hop decoction will be only 10 minutes and the beer will be hop bursted. with 3 ounces for 2.5 gallons.
I will be documenting time at every step.

H.W.

 

[ghohn]

Owly ... It's mighty big of you to come back here and admit error. Even bigger of you to right the ship and giver' another go.

"Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing. Like the first monkey shot into space." - Tyler

To the other people nervous about trying it, give it a shot. The only beers I have made over the past six months have been no-boil. You are only out about ten bucks if you decide it isn't for you.


Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew

 

[Owly055]

Today I ran a titration test to get % acidity on this brew. This is a process used to balance wines. The titration test showed a 4% acidity. The IBUs calculate out to 25 and the OG was 1.044. Below is a bit from Beer Smith on BU/GU ratio, and you get a ratio of .57 (rounded). Using their system.
I plan to experiment with titration in conjunction with BU/GU to try to see how they interrelate as there really doesn't seem to be any work in this area that I can find on the net In the meantime, I hope to duplicate this brew more or less, using a kettle sour procedure.

H.W.

The article below from Brew Smith is found at the following URL:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/09/26/balancing-your-beer-with-the-bitterness-ratio/


The balance between bitter hops and sweet malts has always been important in crafting world class beer. This week we take a look at the bitterness ratio and how you can use it to improve the balance of homebrewed beer recipes.

The sweetness of malted barley and specialty grains must be offset by bitterness. Early beers used all kinds of herbs including ginger, caraway, cinnamon, citron, coriander, juniper, mint, myrtle, saffron, hysop, dill, thistles, and many others to counterbalance the sweetness of malt. Most modern beers use hops for bitterness, though some specialty beers like Belgian Wit still make use of other spices.

The idea of trying to quantify the bitterness to sweet malt balance is also not new. English brewers regularly used “pounds of hops per quarter of malt” for the last several hundred years to characterize the hops-malt balance. Modern brewers started using the modern equivalent, called the bitterness ratio or BU:GU ratio many years ago. The measure, determined by simply dividing the number of IBUs in a beer by the number of gravity units, provides a rough estimate of the balance between hop bitterness and malt sweetness. It is featured in Ray Daniel’s Designing Great Beers book where he lists the average bitterness ratio for many popular styles.

To calculate the bitterness ratio we start with the number of international bitterness units or IBUs. For example, lets say we start with a beer that has 30 IBUs. We then take the original gravity of the beer (for example 1.048), take the fractional portion (0.048) and multiply by 1000 to get the number of gravity points. In this example 1.048 would simply be 48 points. Now we take 30 IBUs and divide by 48 points to get a bitterness ration of 0.63. If you are using BeerSmith, the estimated bitterness ration (IBUs/OG points) is displayed just below the color on the recipe design page.

Obviously the bitterness ratio needed varies depending on the style of the beer. A hoppy India Pale Ale is going to have a much higher desired bitterness ratio than a barely hopped Weizenbier. To determine the correct target bitterness ratio, one needs to know the average IBUs and starting gravity for different beer styles. Fortunately the BJCP style guideline provides just such a resource. To calculate your target average style BU:GU ration, determine the average IBUs for the style guide and divide by the average OG points for the style. I’ve calculated the bitterness ratio for a few popular styles here from the 2008 guidelines:

American Amber: 0.619
Bohemian Pilsner: 0.800
Oktoberfest/Marzen: 0.449
Traditional Bock: 0.346
Blonde Ale: 0.467
California Common: 0.735
Ordinary Bitters: 0.833
American Pale Ale: 0.714
Brown Porter: 0.576
Dry Irish Stout: 0.872
English IPA: 0.800
Weizen/Weissbier: 0.240
Belgian Trippel: 0.375

The above is just a sampling, but gives us some idea of the range of average bitterness ratios for different styles. A higher bitterness ratio corresponds to more bitter beers overall. Not surprisingly many of the malty or high wheat German beers such as Weizen and Bock have low average bitterness ratios (0.240-0.345), while IPAs, Pale Ales, and those with high concentrations of dark malt such as stouts have much higher average ratios of 0.800 or higher. Many popular styles lie in the middle range of around 0.500, such as Oktoberfest, Porter, and Blonde Ale.

The bitterness ratio does not tell the whole story, however, as it does not take into account the individual grains making up the grain bill. For example Oktoberfest/Marzen has a malty flavor from its Munich malt grain bill base that is not reflected in its mid-range BU:GU ratio. Irish Stout, which requires a higher BU:GU ratio to balance its high concentration of black/stout roast malt has a relatively high 0.872 bitterness ratio, but the dry flavor of the roasted malt dominates the flavor profile more than hop bitterness.

Still, calculating the bitterness ratio for a given beer and comparing it to the average for your target beer style can help to create a beer with an appropriate flavor balance, especially when traditional ingredients are used. I personally like to do a sanity check on my bitterness ratio against the style guide to make sure I’m in the ballpark when creating a new recipe.

 

[JohnSand]

Hi Owly. Thanks for sharing your results, even if they are inconclusive due to infection. I was following the other thread, disappointed when it was shut down. Keep testing the boundaries, good luck with that infection. I've had some slow infection mysteries too, but I seem to get past them with sanitation and patience. I dumped three late last year, but made two very good since then. The jury is out on two more.
Brew on!