Seen Yooper Avatar on the News tonight

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Yup, there she is, with her Oatmeal Stout recipe. No mention of HBT specifically though, just showing a screen shot. @Yooper
 
That makes me so mad! I already told Ryan that I did NOT want to be a part of kit lab at all, and I thought the kickstarter campaign was over and it was done with.

I give my recipe away for FREE to anybody who wants it, on this forum. If I wanted to make it a kit available at a home brew store, I would.
 
The KS campaign only raised $5,691 from the projected $44,995 goal. 132 backers.

It's surprising they're up and running now. Maybe big money is sponsoring them.

@Yooper I don't blame you for being mad.
 
Yooper said:
That makes me so mad! I already told Ryan that I did NOT want to be a part of kit lab at all, and I thought the kickstarter campaign was over and it was done with.

I give my recipe away for FREE to anybody who wants it, on this forum. If I wanted to make it a kit available at a home brew store, I would.
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Yeah, but it was still cool seeing your avatar on the news!
 
Sorry Yooper Didn't mean anything about it just thought it was cool to see your avatar on the news.
 
joetownhound said:
Sorry Yooper Didn't mean anything about it just thought it was cool to see your avatar on the news.
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No one's mad at you mate. Don't shoot the messenger

Pretty lousy using a screen shot of someone's recipe after they specifically told them, they weren't willing to play any role.

This doesn't say much for the business owner's integrity if he/she had any say in disseminating the screen shot in the news piece/advert.
 
I prefer the Dominatrix Yooper to the Packer's flex as far as Avatars go. Same woman with sage advice, though. And that is the most important thing.
 
Gavin C said:
No one's mad at you mate. Don't shoot the messenger

Pretty lousy using a screen shot of someone's recipe after they specifically told them, they weren't willing to play any role.

This doesn't say much for the business owner's integrity if he/she had any say in disseminating the screen shot in the news piece/advert.
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reminds me a lot of why Dave Mustane was so pissed off...:rockin:
 
None of that seems like a big deal to me. At least I wouldn't have cared. Maybe it would be a small thrill to see my HBT post on TV.

They guy who wrote the Imponderables books (anyone remember those?) quoted me in one of them. That was sorta cool. He pulled a conversation we had on a Usenet physics forum and put it in one of his books. It was my 15 minutes of muted fame I guess.
 
joetownhound said:
Sorry Yooper Didn't mean anything about it just thought it was cool to see your avatar on the news.
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No, I know you didn't and of course it's fine but it's just a reminder that when he started his kickstarter he asked me if I would be a part and I said no.

passedpawn said:
None of that seems like a big deal to me. At least I wouldn't have cared. Maybe it would be a small thrill to see my HBT post on TV.

They guy who wrote the Imponderables books (anyone remember those?) quoted me in one of them. That was sorta cool. He pulled a conversation we had on a Usenet physics forum and put it in one of his books. It was my 15 minutes of muted fame I guess.
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I don't care about the recipe being shared, but about 30 people have told me that they assumed that I was a part of this and going to be signing up through him to sell the kit. When he approached me about it a very long time ago (last fall I think, maybe winter?) I declined.

That's the only reason that it makes me mad- that people assume that I gave permission and supported the kickstarter to sell it as a kit. If someone says "no" to using their likeness/name then I think it's incredibly disrespectful to use it anyway, even if it's a "fake" name from HBT. There are a lot of others who DID sign up to sell kits through him, or he could have used someone who did give permission, or even his own recipe kit as an example.
 
passedpawn said:
None of that seems like a big deal to me. At least I wouldn't have cared. Maybe it would be a small thrill to see my HBT post on TV.

They guy who wrote the Imponderables books (anyone remember those?) quoted me in one of them. That was sorta cool. He pulled a conversation we had on a Usenet physics forum and put it in one of his books. It was my 15 minutes of muted fame I guess.
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I guess the difference is @passedpawn , that you would have been only too happy to have your name and work mentioned in the book. Can't say I've read it BTW. (*hangs head in shame*)

I seems to be presented as if @Yooper is fully onboard with the project and is collecting royalties from people using her recipes. Her name and Avatar are well known on HBT and throughout the small homebrewing community so it is not surprising they wanted to use it. To do so without her OK is pretty lousy in my book.

In reality @Yooper has altruistically placed her creations in the public domain without any thought of financial or other rewards, as is true for all that have added to the great trove of recipes here. Her creations are widely disseminated, hugely popular and justifiably so. I've brewed a few of them with, IMHO, delicious results.

Therein lies the disconnect between reality and what is presented in the piece.

It just seems really cynical to ask for someone to get on board with a project, be declined and then use their name, albeit a handle, regardless. No bueno.
 
Gavin C said:
I seems to be presented as if @Yooper is fully onboard with the project and is collecting royalties from people using her recipes. Her name and Avatar are well known on HBT and throughout the small homebrewing community so it is not surprising they wanted to use it. To do so without her OK is pretty lousy in my book.

In reality @Yooper has altruistically placed her creations in the public domain without any thought of financial or other rewards, as is true for all that have added to the great trove of recipes here. Her creations are widely disseminated, hugely popular and justifiably so. I've brewed a few of them with, IMHO, delicious results.

Therein lies the disconnect between reality and what is presented in the piece.

It just seems really cynical to ask for someone to get on board with a project, be declined and then use their name, albeit a handle, regardless. No bueno.
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I agree, it's bogus that he asked permission, was denied, then went ahead and did it anyway. I'd have much less of an issue if he had just used it without mentioning where he got it - that happens all the time ;)
 
Billy-Klubb said:
hell, I'm just happy when someone mentions me in a post!:pipe:
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@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,@billy-klubb ,

That should make your day.

*covers berries with both hands and sits quietly*
 
It's only recognizable if you're looking for it or familiar with it, so...
 
Yea I saw it too and thought wow that's Yooper's avitar on tv, pretty cool. So I watched the story and it did leave the viewer with the impression that you were involved with the site. That's terrible that they would do that to you when you specifically told them that you did not want to be affiliated. Still pretty cool though to see you on tv...... it was like wow Yooper made the big time with her beer recipes, good for her, felt like I kinda knew ya from all your posts here on HBT. Don't worry about it, we are all with you Yoop!

John
 
Yooper said:
No, I know you didn't and of course it's fine but it's just a reminder that when he started his kickstarter he asked me if I would be a part and I said no.



I don't care about the recipe being shared, but about 30 people have told me that they assumed that I was a part of this and going to be signing up through him to sell the kit. When he approached me about it a very long time ago (last fall I think, maybe winter?) I declined.

That's the only reason that it makes me mad- that people assume that I gave permission and supported the kickstarter to sell it as a kit. If someone says "no" to using their likeness/name then I think it's incredibly disrespectful to use it anyway, even if it's a "fake" name from HBT. There are a lot of others who DID sign up to sell kits through him, or he could have used someone who did give permission, or even his own recipe kit as an example.
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So if I'm reading this correctly; His business model is to pay royalties to the authors of the kits he sells?

He approached you, you declined and he went ahead and used your likeness and recipe anyhow?

So; have you recieved any royalties? If not, where'd they go?

Its getting to be a crazy world when a home brewer has to trademark her avatar, screen name and beer recipes; just so some vulture can't make money off her back.
 
njviking said:
So if I'm reading this correctly; His business model is to pay royalties to the authors of the kits he sells?

He approached you, you declined and he went ahead and used your likeness and recipe anyhow?

So; have you recieved any royalties? If not, where'd they go?

Its getting to be a crazy world when a home brewer has to trademark her avatar, screen name and beer recipes; just so some vulture can't make money off her back.
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well luckily he hasn't made any money off of her name yet. his kickstarter campaign failed.

also, i don't believe you can copyright a recipe. i wouldn't be surprised if she found the avatar on the internet somewhere, and it's likely copyrighted. for sure the football season avatar is copyright by someone else. i would love to know if someone could copyright a screen name though.

also if someone wanted to make money off of her recipe, all they would need to do is not ask for her permission and call the beer a yooper house pale ale clone. or give it a name that very closely resembles her name and recipe so that people know where the inspiration comes from and will want to buy it. like Hooper Pale Ale. Then change the percentage of some of the malts by a half of a percent, and boom, completely different recipe which she has no rights to.

not to say that i wouldn't be pissed if i were in her shoes as well. in fact, if the company does get started, i would personally find a lawyer who could show that he owed me royalties, and also sue him for distress or something. and then i would go to some other kit distributor and give them the rights to use my recipe and my name just to spite the guy.
 
Public domain is free to all. Recipe, avatar, username, is not in question.

It's just the bare faced *****ebageddyness of their behavior that stands out.
 
I think it would be funny to get a lawyer to go after royalties for something that you were already giving away for free. What this guy did was certainly rude, but that's probably the extent of it. He flashed a picture of a screenshot that is only recognizable to the users of HBT. Everyone already has access to that recipe. This kit will allow them to buy the ingredients with instructions.

If that's all his product is, then of course he's struggling.

I don't think you could copyright a screen name, but you could register it as a trademark. Yes, a registered trademark for a screen name on a HOBBY site. And that name happens to be a word that refers to a group of people (not invented by that person), and someone adopted that word for their screen name. Good luck copyrighting or trademarking that.

Suing for distress? This thread gets better and better.

HBT might have a shot at complaining about using THEIR content in his promo video. That's who actually owns the content, right? Including this post I'm writing at the moment.
 
ericbw said:
I think it would be funny to get a lawyer to go after royalties for something that you were already giving away for free. What this guy did was certainly rude, but that's probably the extent of it. He flashed a picture of a screenshot that is only recognizable to the users of HBT. Everyone already has access to that recipe. This kit will allow them to buy the ingredients with instructions.

If that's all his product is, then of course he's struggling.

I don't think you could copyright a screen name, but you could register it as a trademark. Yes, a registered trademark for a screen name on a HOBBY site. And that name happens to be a word that refers to a group of people (not invented by that person), and someone adopted that word for their screen name. Good luck copyrighting or trademarking that.

Suing for distress? This thread gets better and better.

HBT might have a shot at complaining about using THEIR content in his promo video. That's who actually owns the content, right? Including this post I'm writing at the moment.
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What? I'm not talking about copyrighting or anything at all. It just made me mad to see the video with my words and recipe on his kickstarter after I said "no". That's it.

And no one from HBT has a problem with using the content- I just was not happy to see something that I declined to make money from listed as a "kit" to buy on someone's site. That's really all it is. Nothing more.

Like I said, if I wanted to make a kit on his site and sell it, I would. But I didn't want to since it's free to every single person who wants to use it. Just like this forum.
 
Yooper said:
But I didn't want to since it's free to every single person who wants to use it. Just like this forum.
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I think that's the nice thing about the beer brewing community, and something I feel is dwindling a bit with commercial breweries, which is kinda sad. The spirit of beer making has always been about just trying to make a quality product that people enjoy, not about some undisclosed secret ingredient. It's another item on the list of why I really got into this thing, people just sharing info for free.
 
Just two years ago, home brewers brewed 2 million barrels of beer. That's the same amount as Samuel Adams. The largest craft brewer in the country!

LOL!! largest "craft" brewery. I guess BMC isn't craft....just large. Haha! :D
 
ha

The way they display the computer screen reminds me of the "To Catch A Criminal" when they are trapping pedophiles...

The interview would go:
"This is the transcript from our criminal,
Yooper said: Yes, it's 40L Crystal.
Victim: But do you all grain??
Yooper: Yes, you should see my sparge arm...
Victim: I'm kinda intimidated by all grain...
Yooper: Don't worry, you're not my first first-timer!"
 
Personally I would be pissed that someone is making money by using recipes from someone who declined to participate, especially a prominent contributor like Yooper. Sure, the guy could change one ingredient and then sell it as different, but then he should do that and put in the effort. What is preventing someone from submitting a recipe that was pulled from someone online? It just seems morally wrong to me, but that is just my personal opinion.
 
Yooper said:
What? I'm not talking about copyrighting or anything at all. It just made me mad to see the video with my words and recipe on his kickstarter after I said "no". That's it.



And no one from HBT has a problem with using the content- I just was not happy to see something that I declined to make money from listed as a "kit" to buy on someone's site. That's really all it is. Nothing more.



Like I said, if I wanted to make a kit on his site and sell it, I would. But I didn't want to since it's free to every single person who wants to use it. Just like this forum.
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I'm responding to the thread, not to you in particular. I'm responding to the posts suggesting copyright and getting a lawyer.

I'm also pointing out that if you (or anyone else) posts something here, the content probably legally belongs to HBT, since you contributed it to their site.

There's a spectrum from "I wish he hadn't done that" to "mad" to "pissed" to "get a lawyer" to "make your own kit and sell it just to spite him."

Again, I'm addressing the overblown tone of the thread, not what you said except for where your comments fall on that spectrum.

I wonder if the White House or Obama get their shorts in a bunch when they see the White House ale kits. The recipe is free to all, but the kits use the (recognizable) White House logo and name.
 
YeastMode said:
What is preventing someone from submitting a recipe that was pulled from someone online?
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Nothing. In fact, aren't most recipes derived from another recipe, sometimes very, very closely. For example, you should compare the recipe in the video (Yooper's Oatmeal Stout) to Jamil's Oatmeal Stout.

Recipes are open source the minute they are made public.

And I agree, cut out the legal BS (not you, Yeastmode :)). Her avatar is not her "likeness", it's a piece of clipart off the internet, just like mine. I have no idea if I'm using mine legally, so I certainly wouldn't claim any ownership of it.

She rightfully, though, should be unhappy with the guy who used her online personage after being asked not to. Gawd, how did this turn into another rant thread :(
 
passedpawn said:
Nothing. In fact, aren't most recipes derived from another recipe, sometimes very, very closely. For example, you should compare the recipe in the video (Yooper's Oatmeal Stout) to Jamil's Oatmeal Stout.

Recipes are open source the minute they are made public.

And I agree, cut out the legal BS (not you, Yeastmode :)). Her avatar is not her "likeness", it's a piece of clipart off the internet, just like mine. I have no idea if I'm using mine legally, so I certainly wouldn't claim any ownership of it.

She rightfully, though, should be unhappy with the guy who used her online personage after being asked not to. Gawd, how did this turn into another rant thread :(
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Wait, that's not you? Disillusioned:eek:
 
ericbw said:
I'm responding to the thread, not to you in particular. I'm responding to the posts suggesting copyright and getting a lawyer.

I'm also pointing out that if you (or anyone else) posts something here, the content probably legally belongs to HBT, since you contributed it to their site.

There's a spectrum from "I wish he hadn't done that" to "mad" to "pissed" to "get a lawyer" to "make your own kit and sell it just to spite him."

Again, I'm addressing the overblown tone of the thread, not what you said except for where your comments fall on that spectrum.

I wonder if the White House or Obama get their shorts in a bunch when they see the White House ale kits. The recipe is free to all, but the kits use the (recognizable) White House logo and name.
Click to expand...


It is very damn difficult to pass one's tone all the way through the wires and satellites into the text you see displayed. It was all written in jest from my side. I thought it sounded ridiculous enough to be able to infer the joking nature of it, but apparently not.
 
passedpawn said:
Nothing. In fact, aren't most recipes derived from another recipe, sometimes very, very closely. For example, you should compare the recipe in the video (Yooper's Oatmeal Stout) to Jamil's Oatmeal Stout.

Recipes are open source the minute they are made public.

(
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This is why I don't understand getting too pissed about it. It's public, you do it on a public forum, you don't make money from it... ("You" in general).
 
passedpawn said:
...avatar ... a piece of clipart off the internet, just like mine. I have no idea if I'm using mine legally, so I certainly wouldn't claim any ownership of it.
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I thought that was how all Floridians dressed. Sure it's not you? I was working under the assumption that below the tweed and twill are a pair of board shorts not in view, and a copy of cheesemaker's weekly and some low-tar Dunhill lights just out of shot.
 
passedpawn said:
Nothing. In fact, aren't most recipes derived from another recipe, sometimes very, very closely. For example, you should compare the recipe in the video (Yooper's Oatmeal Stout) to Jamil's Oatmeal Stout.

Recipes are open source the minute they are made public.

And I agree, cut out the legal BS (not you, Yeastmode :)). Her avatar is not her "likeness", it's a piece of clipart off the internet, just like mine. I have no idea if I'm using mine legally, so I certainly wouldn't claim any ownership of it.

She rightfully, though, should be unhappy with the guy who used her online personage after being asked not to. Gawd, how did this turn into another rant thread :(
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Ya I left the legal arguments out of it because they are not really appropriate for this forum conversation. I was more speaking from a moral argument, as in "how can the operator of the business/site ensure that the royalties are paid to the proper person." And what happens if two people submit the same recipe? Is the operator going to investigate who is the "creator" of the recipe? And in Yooper's case, she said "I don't want to participate" so wouldn't it be morally wrong to use her information? Is he going to sell her recipe at a discount because there is no cost of royalty?
 

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