Secondary fermentation

[ReinhardtSzgeboot]

Can someone give me a very GOOD reason for secondary fermentation. What a pain in the ass.

RS

 

[Revvy]

You are getting "secondary fermentation" and a secondary confused for one thing.

Secondary fermentation is a misnomer, since no fermentaion SHOULD happen in the secondary. The secondary is to clear your beer/wine/cider/mead.

There is a "secondary fermentation stage," but it happens in your primary along with lagtime, and reproductive phase. It is part of the life cycle of the yeast, and it all happens before it is time to move it to a clearing tank, (secondary vessel or brite tank"

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

The fermentation of malt sugars into beer is a complicated biochemical process. It is more than just the conversion of sugar to alcohol, which can be regarded as the primary activity. Total fermentation is better defined as three phases, the Adaptation or Lagtime phase, the Primary or Attenuative phase and a Secondary or Conditioning phase. The yeast do not end Phase 2 before beginning Phase 3, the processes occur in parallel, but the conditioning processes occur more slowly. As the majority of simple sugars are consumed, more and more of the yeast will transition to eating the larger, more complex sugars and early yeast by-products. This is why beer (and wine) improves with age to a degree, as long as they are on the yeast. Beer that has been filtered or pasteurized will not benefit from aging.

The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. ...

It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and just say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary. After the hydrometer reading stays the same for 3 days.


Now as to using a secondary vessel, nowadays people rarely use them, except to add fruit or oak. Most folks instead opt for a month long primary instead. This is the most discussed topic on here, it has been readily covered. I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread. Every discussion, question, answer, citation, etch is in that thread....

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

Many of us leave our beer in primary for a month minimum then bottle.....We find out beers to be clearer and better tasting.

I suggest you read that thread, and experiment for yourself, and make up your own mind.

There's thousands of threads where folks have ventured their opinions, and argued incessantly, but it ultimately comes down to what works for you......

If clarity is your goal, then Leave you beer a month in primary instead.

 

[ReinhardtSzgeboot]

Thanks Revvy. THAT makes more sense to me. It's what I've always done anyway. It was the second vessel that was driving me nuts. What use I thought. Clarity has never been a problem for me and I get good alcohol content. Will carry on. Thanks again for your time and I will visit the readings in the forums.

Reinhardt Szgeboot

 

[sawbossFogg]

Hey Revvy, this is a very informative post, however your initial statement that the term secondary fermentor is a misnomer as "no fermentation should happen there" is directly contradicted by the John Palmer quote added as explanation;
stating:
"The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose".

 

[julioardz]

Hey Revvy, this is a very informative post, however your initial statement that the term secondary fermentor is a misnomer as "no fermentation should happen there" is directly contradicted by the John Palmer quote added as explanation;
stating:
"The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose".

Now I think you are getting "secondary fermentation" and "secondary" confused. That quote is referring to the secondary phase of fermentation, which should be happening in the same container as the primary phase of fermentation. I don't like to put words in people's mouths, but Revvy is saying no fermentation should happen in that second container that some people transfer their beer into for clarifying, further conditioning, or adding flavorings. That is a second vessel that shouldn't have active fermentation happening and it's a misnomer when referred to as secondary fermentor. People may see some fermentation when adding fruit or introducing more sugar in that second container, but the initial wort should have completely fermented before transferring.

To reiterate his other point and address the OP, many don't believe in using a second vessel to clear or condition their beer. I get my best results from letting my beer sit in one bucket until I get ready to bottle. I dry hop and have even added fruit and other flavorings into that same bucket once fermentation has stopped. One reason I would use a second vessel would be to bulk condition a batch for a very long time, but I don't even really know how necessary that is. I don't make these types of beer, so I don't use a secondary at all.

 

[Revvy]

Hey Revvy, this is a very informative post, however your initial statement that the term secondary fermentor is a misnomer as "no fermentation should happen there" is directly contradicted by the John Palmer quote added as explanation;
stating:
"The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose".

Again that was the ENTIRE passage I quoted above was about...The PHASE is not the fermenter.....

 

[RIC0]

Hell when you bottle there's still a tiny bit of fermenting going on so you could say there's a third phase of fermenting if you wanna get serious about it..

But as Revvy pointed out dang near all fermentation should take place in the primary and yes there might be a little in the secondary and even a tiny bit more to buildup carbonation in a bottle.

 

[Calder]

Now as to using a secondary vessel, nowadays people rarely use them, except to add fruit or oak. Most folks instead opt for a month long primary instead.

"Rarely", that's a bit strong. I guess I am rare then, since I still secondary 95% of my beers. I agree, most beers can be made without using a secondary. Why do I secondary:

1) Habit/Process/consistency. It is how I do my beers, so all get treated the same.
2) I harvest yeast from just about every batch (end up tossing most away). Hydro-static pressure (pressure from height of beer) is bad for it, so I generally rack at 2 weeks to harvest the yeast.
3) Most of my beers sit at least 6 weeks, often up to 10 (or more) and I am uncomfortable leaving them on the cake that long.
4) I brew a lot of Belgians, which are fermented and rested warm. This is detrimental to the yeast and I want to get the beer off it as quick as possible.
5) With hoppy ales, I usually dry hop ..... in order to collect the yeast relatively clean, I need to rack it before dry hopping.

I've never had any issues with decaying yeast, and may not have in any of my beers if left on the cake the whole time. I think I continue to do it mostly for yeast health at harvesting.