Secondary Effects on Carbing?

[Pierce]

So my dad has been brewing extract kits since January. One his last 4 batches or so he's started using a secondary to help clarify the beer. It definitely seems to accomplish that, but now he's having problems getting some of the batches to carb up. For example, his triple has been in the bottle for 4ish wks now and its just starting to carb to a decent point.

So what's going on? Does using a secondary kill the carbing power of the yeast when he bottles? Or is it a different problem we need to hunt down.

 

[oceanselv]

What temperature are you storing the secondary at? What temperature are you adding the priming sugar at? Also what temperature are you storing the bottles at? Are you using getting exactly 5 gallons of beer? The colder the temperature of the secondary the more the yeast will fall out of suspension. Also the yeast left in suspension will go dormant at lower temps. Likewise the lower the temp of the bottles beer the slower the carbonation process. A good suggestion is to bottle and add the priming sugar at room temp. Then let the bottles sit for at least 3 weeks and you should have good beer. Regarding the volumes you are getting. A kit is typically assembled for 5 gallons of beer. If you have missed your volumes and end up with 6 gallons instead, you are under pitching the priming sugar slightly. The result will be a lower amount of carbonation and a slower carbonation process.

 

[Beernik]

There are two issues that I can see:

1. A lot of what you are clarifing in the secondary is yeast. If you have a smaller suspended yeast population, it will take longer to carb.

2. A triple is a high gravity beer. When you try to use yeast to carb a high gravity beer, you have to remember you have already pushed them close to their alcohol tolerance level. So it's going to take them longer to carb the priming sugar.

 

[Pierce]

What temperature are you storing the secondary at? What temperature are you adding the priming sugar at? Also what temperature are you storing the bottles at? Are you using getting exactly 5 gallons of beer?

The fermentor and bottles are all kept in the basement and it stays between 65-68 most of the time.

The priming sugar is quick boiled in the microwave and dumped in the bottling bucket and almost immediately racked on top of. Would the high temp hurt it at all?

The colder the temperature of the secondary the more the yeast will fall out of suspension.

That's what I was leaning towards.

Also the yeast left in suspension will go dormant at lower temps. Likewise the lower the temp of the bottles beer the slower the carbonation process.

Is 65-68* considered a low temp?

 

[Pierce]

There are two issues that I can see:

1. A lot of what you are clarifing in the secondary is yeast. If you have a smaller suspended yeast population, it will take longer to carb.

2. A triple is a high gravity beer. When you try to use yeast to carb a high gravity beer, you have to remember you have already pushed them close to their alcohol tolerance level. So it's going to take them longer to carb the priming sugar.

AHA. Point 2 would explain why the Wheat was ready to drink in 3 wks total time and the triple is still under carbed.

 

[jrpcwp]

Thanks for the advice. I have started moving the bottled beer upstairs where it is warming and that seems to help, but Mom says the secondary is going to have to stay in the basement. Now that it is summer the temp in the basement stays around 70.

Back to the boiling the priming sugar. Is it neccesary to actually boil it or is just making sure it is completely disolved in hot water good enough?

 

[Revvy]

Actually secondary has little effect on beer's carbonation, same with month long primary. Despite what you may think there is still plenty of yeast in solution to do the job of carbing.

The biggest factor in carbing is gravity of beer, temp of storage, and your patience.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them ore time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation.

 

[Pierce]

Revvy, what you're really saying is, "Skip the bottling and start kegging", right?

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, what you're really saying is, "Skip the bottling and start kegging", right?

Bite me.....

If you go to kegging without mastering bottling then you are a wus.

Besides, beer needs to condition just as much in a keg as it does in a bottle, talk to experienced brewers, most of them age their beer in their kegs before drinking from them.

 

[jrpcwp]

Revvy might just be right. It has been a little over 5 weeks in the bottle at 70 degrees and it is finally starting to condition. Still is a little low on carbonation, but the favor is starting to come along. I will try another bottle in a few days.